Not By Works
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Faith void of our compliance to God's instructions is a faith spoken of in John 8:31.
Can we have a sincere moment of faith in Jesus Christ and still end our life as unsaved? Yes.
God is sovereign and is not bound to our sense and sensibilities.
You may have convinced yourself that God is bound to your moment of sincere faith as irrevocable but you are wrong.
OSAS is a feel good notion without a biblical example.
God has withdrawn His protection many times in the Bible. If you think He is constrained to keep anyone under His protection, tell that to the churches in Rev. 2.
Can we have a sincere moment of faith in Jesus Christ and still end our life as unsaved? Yes.
God is sovereign and is not bound to our sense and sensibilities.
You may have convinced yourself that God is bound to your moment of sincere faith as irrevocable but you are wrong.
OSAS is a feel good notion without a biblical example.
God has withdrawn His protection many times in the Bible. If you think He is constrained to keep anyone under His protection, tell that to the churches in Rev. 2.
Get this....your view = zero
and your conflated, ill informed, false view contradicts the bible and truth on so many levels......and....your honesty is shy of honest.....nor do you grasp context....REV 2 and 3 is not about salvation.......it is about church authority......and I could care less if you reject that truth
and your conflated, ill informed, false view contradicts the bible and truth on so many levels......and....your honesty is shy of honest.....nor do you grasp context....REV 2 and 3 is not about salvation.......it is about church authority......and I could care less if you reject that truth
Come on now. The warnings to the churches in Rev. 2 & 3 are about losing "church authority"? Jesus was warning them about losing their crown of life. Talk about not grasping context.
Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. Rev. 2:7
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. Rev.2:11
He that overcometh shall thus be arrayed in white garments; and I will in no wise blot his name out of the book of life Rev.3:5
A. "eat from the Tree of Life"
B. "not hurt by the second death"
C. and a promise to not "blot his name out of the book of life" if he overcomes
And you think Jesus is talking about "church authority"?
Even a "circus clown" like me can see the context is spiritual life and death.
Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. Rev. 2:7
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. Rev.2:11
He that overcometh shall thus be arrayed in white garments; and I will in no wise blot his name out of the book of life Rev.3:5
A. "eat from the Tree of Life"
B. "not hurt by the second death"
C. and a promise to not "blot his name out of the book of life" if he overcomes
And you think Jesus is talking about "church authority"?
Even a "circus clown" like me can see the context is spiritual life and death.
Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Matthew 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
If I were to state it a million times would you choose to hear me then? Or, are you already POSITIVE that I Do Not believe we are under the law, AS YOU ARE ALSO POSITIVE I do believe we are under grace and THE VERY ACT OF ASKING ME THOSE QUESTIONS CALLS INTO QUESTION YOUR INTEGRITY AND YOUR HONESTY AND YOUR AGENDA. How is it yet again, you fall woefully short of projecting either some meekness, or any of the other fruits of the Spirit you should be, being "LED" by? If anyone were to go and read your replies, how often would your "fruit" read along the lines of gentle, kind, brotherly love, patience, goodness, longsuffering, Continence, Modesty.
Or would they shine through in anger, hostility, bravado? You want me to be more honest?
What does it matter to you if someone believes their salvation may be taken away and so they go through their faith walk different than you? That "MUST MEAN" just isn't true, except maybe to you and the agreements. God gives us each our own amount of Grace does He not? You are taking it upon yourself to get angry for the amount of grace given or as you see it lack of amount of grace given by God and ...... And you are not even going to be able to say it was from a lack of knowledge. Who are you to so harshly judge another mans servant? What if that servant is actually being sent to test you? How are you doing?
So where is my mistake? or mistakes? God forbid I not be 100% accurate. Where is the attack going to come from? How shall you divert from the questions asked and instead find the weakness to pounce upon? or a sentence not quite right that you can manipulate to make it all better FOR YOU? You are jumping up of the fellowservants of the Lords. You can only claim righteous indignation for so much.
So give me another red check, write your retort, get your buds to high five thumbs up it and move on once again. Or may be I
have gotten it all wrong, do you want me to be more honest?
Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Matthew 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
If I were to state it a million times would you choose to hear me then? Or, are you already POSITIVE that I Do Not believe we are under the law, AS YOU ARE ALSO POSITIVE I do believe we are under grace and THE VERY ACT OF ASKING ME THOSE QUESTIONS CALLS INTO QUESTION YOUR INTEGRITY AND YOUR HONESTY AND YOUR AGENDA. How is it yet again, you fall woefully short of projecting either some meekness, or any of the other fruits of the Spirit you should be, being "LED" by? If anyone were to go and read your replies, how often would your "fruit" read along the lines of gentle, kind, brotherly love, patience, goodness, longsuffering, Continence, Modesty.
Or would they shine through in anger, hostility, bravado? You want me to be more honest?
What does it matter to you if someone believes their salvation may be taken away and so they go through their faith walk different than you? That "MUST MEAN" just isn't true, except maybe to you and the agreements. God gives us each our own amount of Grace does He not? You are taking it upon yourself to get angry for the amount of grace given or as you see it lack of amount of grace given by God and ...... And you are not even going to be able to say it was from a lack of knowledge. Who are you to so harshly judge another mans servant? What if that servant is actually being sent to test you? How are you doing?
So where is my mistake? or mistakes? God forbid I not be 100% accurate. Where is the attack going to come from? How shall you divert from the questions asked and instead find the weakness to pounce upon? or a sentence not quite right that you can manipulate to make it all better FOR YOU? You are jumping up of the fellowservants of the Lords. You can only claim righteous indignation for so much.
So give me another red check, write your retort, get your buds to high five thumbs up it and move on once again. Or may be I
have gotten it all wrong, do you want me to be more honest?
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DJ3 said:
I have read and reread this post and I cannot understand what your point is.
I will not make fun of you if the Church you attend, does not Explain Born Again. I used to belong to a Lutheran Church that NEVER EXPLAINED IT ONE TIME. I will teach you, How you can be Born Again. You have to be Born Again to get into heaven.
I have read and reread this post and I cannot understand what your point is.
I will not make fun of you if the Church you attend, does not Explain Born Again. I used to belong to a Lutheran Church that NEVER EXPLAINED IT ONE TIME. I will teach you, How you can be Born Again. You have to be Born Again to get into heaven.
"Your Misinterpretations are what I am talking about. "---Maybe but that is not what you accused me of.
This is what you wrote:
LOOK HOW YOU INSERTED YOUR OPINION and THEN INSERT the word Bible--> just to give your opinion some FAKE CREDIBILITY.
What do you call someone that gives you his opinion and pretends it is the word of God ? ? ?
My verses were clearly labeled. I have never "pretended" my opinions were holy script.
No I am not Catholic? Are you a Calvinist?
I do believe I understand what it means to be Born Again. But I suspect our opinions are different on the issue.
This is what you wrote:
LOOK HOW YOU INSERTED YOUR OPINION and THEN INSERT the word Bible--> just to give your opinion some FAKE CREDIBILITY.
What do you call someone that gives you his opinion and pretends it is the word of God ? ? ?
My verses were clearly labeled. I have never "pretended" my opinions were holy script.
No I am not Catholic? Are you a Calvinist?
I do believe I understand what it means to be Born Again. But I suspect our opinions are different on the issue.
I emphasize with you here and yes, it is quite clear that your "debate opponent" is not one that practices the habit of Stephen Covey "seek first to understand then to be understood".
You are quite brave to step into this thread hoping to change the general view here. I think this thread has reached a certain equilibrium and the thread starter, plus some of those who support his view, want to preserve that equilibrium.
Viewpoints like yours threaten the stability of that equilibrium and hence, like what we learn in mathematical models of dynamic systems, will call forth opposing viewpoints that will attempt to push yours away.
You are quite brave to step into this thread hoping to change the general view here. I think this thread has reached a certain equilibrium and the thread starter, plus some of those who support his view, want to preserve that equilibrium.
Viewpoints like yours threaten the stability of that equilibrium and hence, like what we learn in mathematical models of dynamic systems, will call forth opposing viewpoints that will attempt to push yours away.
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