what is love?

dcontroversal · Jul 19, 2019

You know, I thought of an analogy (of a car actually) for this Chapter (1 Cor 13), where God's truth is the gasoline, and love is the spark that ignites it. IOW, you can have access to all of the reserves of gasoline in the world, but it's all worthless because your car, with a full tank of gas, isn't going to get you anywhere without the little spark that it takes to ignite it

That's the sense I get from this passage, that love and truth rejoice ~together~ in the accomplishment of God's will in us and in others, because by themselves/apart from each other, they accomplish little to nothing. After all, we aren't simply called to speak the truth, we're called to speak the truth in love, nor can we "love" others apart from God's truth.

Likewise, the Bible tells us that it's God's "kindness" that leads us to repentance, and that it's our "love" for others (not our extensive knowledge and understanding of Biblical doctrine), that will cause us to be recognized as Christians.

That said, God is not loving towards us (patient and kind towards us) apart from truth, and neither can be loving towards others apart from His truth, but trying to bring the truth to bear in people's lives in an unloving manner (w/o loving patience, concern, and kindness, on our parts), does no good either.

So, if I have to make a choice/"take it of leave it", rather than accepting both "with" and "in" as basically the same thing in v6, then I think that I'm going to side with the majority of our 20th/21st Century linguistic scholars on this one, especially when all that's been said in this thread is taken into consideration.

~Deut

With and in are not the same thing man........

With
preposition
accompanied by (another person or thing).

In
preposition
expressing the situation of something that is or appears to be enclosed or surrounded by something else.

shineyourlight · Jul 19, 2019

I now have "What Is Love?" by Haddaway stuck in my head due to the title of this thread......

Godsgirl83 · Jul 19, 2019

shineyourlight said:

okay, see wasn't sure sure of the song title or singer, so had to look it up. But yeah THAT'S exactly what's been running through my head today too

shineyourlight · Jul 20, 2019

Godsgirl83 said:

Hahaha, now I have it again. Godsgirl83, what are you doing to me?!

I'm at Starbucks doing "homework" (but right now, on CC). Should I sing it loudly and dance on the tables?

Defenderofgrace · Jul 20, 2019

The right songs can help verse memorization

Defenderofgrace · Jul 20, 2019

what would be dc's most accurate indisputable definition of love?

Defenderofgrace · Jul 21, 2019

Jesus have demonstrated his great love for us, by completing all the work on the Cross, as Jesus have stated "it is finished"

and out of his great love, all we need to do is simple: with humility tell Jesus "yes, I want to be born again" believing Jesus heard you

and ye shall be innocent

If God state you are forgiven, you have no power over God's decision... every argument formed against it fails.

debt paid in full

and agree with God on this: we are a new creation in Him, new identity

believe and ye shall manifest

metanoia = change of mind (because of FACT)

meta=after; noeo=to think. Put the two together and the effect of meta was “after the fact” or “afterwards.”

Defenderofgrace · Jul 21, 2019

Defenderofgrace said:

clickable CC link for more information

saying right into God's ear - yes, I want to be born again

sin is paid in full

To live out what is an internal reality

metanoia

Eternal Life For You ... bible verses

Godsgirl83 · Jul 22, 2019

Deuteronomy said:

You know, I thought of an analogy (of a car actually) for this Chapter (1 Cor 13), where God's truth is the gasoline, and love is the spark that ignites it. IOW, you can have access to all of the reserves of gasoline in the world, but it's all worthless because your car, with a full tank of gas, isn't going to get you anywhere without the little spark that it takes to ignite it

OneOfHis · Jul 22, 2019

Defenderofgrace said:

Jesus showed us love perfectly.

On the most simple practical level love is to care so much for others best interests that you are willing to sacrifice yourself. Even to the point of giving your life for those who do not deserve it.

"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."

romans 5

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

1 corinthians does a perfect job describing Gods love shining in us

but now
would you call this love?

matthew 23

But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.

22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

I sure would.

(maybe I'd call it tough love.... sometimes the truth has a hard time making it through thick skulls or hard hearts)

Defenderofgrace · Jul 23, 2019

Clickable CC link to what dc wrote about Paid in Full

it is finished, therefore paid in full

the receipt illustration for Paid in Full

MEN must BELIEVE to have the PAYMENT applied ~dc

blueluna5 · Jul 23, 2019

Love is a feeling and a verb.

Love is first a feeling, and then an action. You must allow the feeling to flow through you and then the action will follow. Love should not be fleeting and should remain forever. It should also be used in a pure or holy manner. Each type of love is different, yet similar in idea and feeling. You love a parent different from your spouse yet the love is still there. Earthly love is symbolic of God's love except God's love is holy and perfect.

Love is an action bc of course you show you love another by your actions. Love is patient, like is kind, etc.

However if you do not rule over your sin, it does not mean you do not love. It does mean you have tainted it. So you lose your patience, but you still love the person. There are still consequences to it.

You can complete the actions to love yet still not love. That is why love is first a feeling and then an action.

When we feel love we are allowing God to flow through us. When we do not bc of anger, fear, indifference, etc we do not.

People think that we come up with love on our own. Oh I love my kid so much! Or I hope God loves me as much as I do him. We love...bc he first loved us. It is his love that flows through us. It is not our own.

I do know a lot of Christians (including my pastor) do not think of love as a feeling. Boy are they going to be surprised! Just wait until they experience God's love flowing through them...more than we already do.

garee · Jul 23, 2019

God's name is Jealous he owns own all things and is not served by them . God is love, is not jealous although he owns all things he also cares for them suffering long to show his kindness.... no need to envy or boast he has no competition ; God's love working in us is not arrogant or rude. His Love is unfailing but not without its conditions. . that defend us as working with as it does work in us to both will and do his good pleasure.. ..our imputed righteousness.

Webers.Home · Jul 23, 2019

.
"By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one
another." (John 13:35)

For many of us who grew up in dysfunctional families, broken homes, foster
systems, gangs, and/or orphanages et al; the concept of love doesn't
resonate in our thinking; viz: it just goes in one ear and right out the other
because we quite literally have no points of reference in our minds to aid
comprehending what Christ means by love. We know what Hollywood and
contemporary music mean by love, but we haven't a clue what Christ
means.

This is why the epistles are so valuable-- many of them not only show
Christ's followers how to recognize love when they encounter it; but also
how to exemplify it in their own lives so that those of us who were deprived
of love growing up are not left to figure it out on our own. For example:

"Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt" (Col 4:6)

Grace can be defined as kind, courteous, inclined to good will, generous,
charitable, altruistic, compassionate, sympathetic, thoughtful, cordial,
affable, genial, sociable, cheerful, warm, sensitive, hospitable, considerate,
and tactful.

One of salt's purposes is to enhance flavor and make otherwise naturally
insipid and/or bad-tasting things palatable, viz: diplomacy; which can be
roughly defined as conversation that makes an effort to maintain peace
rather than provoke conflict and/or annoy people and make them
uncomfortable.
_

Webers.Home · Jul 25, 2019

.
● Col 3:15b . . Be thankful.

You know "thank you" is not a dirty word. Christ's people should never take
the attitude that just because somebody is doing their job that they don't
deserve recognition.

One of my favorite romantic comedies is "No Reservations" starring
Catherine Zeta-Jones and Aaron Eckhart. Prior to filming, Catherine took a
job waiting tables to get a feel for working as a waitress.

On several occasions, patrons didn't even look up at her nor speak in a
cordial, courteous tone when they ordered. It struck her as remarkable that
some of the people whom she was serving totally took her for granted and
displayed not the slightest inclination to even so much as acknowledge her
as a fellow human being, let alone express their gratitude for her taking care
of them.
_

Defenderofgrace · Jul 25, 2019

Thank you Mr. Weber for your edifying post and for others who have contributed to this thread

Webers.Home · Jul 26, 2019

.
I've only just begun to talk about love; so if no one objects too strongly, I'd
like to continue fleshing it out, viz: putting a handle on it, so to speak.

● Matt 5:7 . . Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.

Christ wasn't talking about forgiveness in that beatitude. The word for
"merciful" is eleemon (el-eh-ay'-mone) which means: compassionate (as an
adjective). And the word for "mercy" is eleeo (el-eh-eh'-o) which means: to
pity (as a verb).

So then, what Christ says is: if somebody is by nature cruel, hard hearted,
thoughtless, and insensitive; then they will get no sympathy from God
whatsoever.

Webster's defines "cruel" as: (1) disposed to inflict pain or suffering, (2)
devoid of humane feelings, (3) causing or conducive to injury, grief, or pain,
and (4) unrelieved by leniency.

A glaring example of cruelty is North Korea's Kim Jong-Un, a dictator who
squanders billions of dollars on national defense while the growth of
something like than 30 to 40 percent of North Korea's children is stunted by
malnutrition; and adequate health care is available only to a relatively
privileged few. There are actually hospitals in North Korea without electricity,
medications, and anesthetics. Potable water is another scarcity in North
Korea.

But there are cruelties far more common than Jong-Un's; for example:
demeaning comments, thoughtless remarks, carping criticism, relentless
ridicule, bullying, sniping, denigrating labels, hounding, stalking, grudging,
needling, perpetual fault-finding, gossip, slander, social sabotage, obnoxious
behavior, computer hacking, rejoinders, et al.

There are actually kids growing up in homes where their parents never give
them even one atta-boy. As a result, they grow up feeling ugly, unwanted,
stupid, useless, and unnecessary. There are also kids growing up in homes
where mothers never hug them nor bother to take the time to forge a bond
between mother and child. Thus they grow up with reactive attachment
disorder; feeling convinced that no one could possibly ever love them or be
their best friend forever. RAD kids grow up to become adults with some
serious trust issues.

● Matt 9:13 . . But go and learn what that means: I will have mercy, and not
sacrifice.

In order to properly understand Christ's statement; it's necessary to go back
into the Old Testament from whence he got it.

● Hos 6:4-6 . .What can I do with you, Ephraim? What can I do with you,
Judah? Your love is like the morning mist, like the early dew that disappears.
Therefore I cut you in pieces with my prophets, I slaughtered you with the
words of my mouth; My judgments flashed like lightning upon you. For I
desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt
offerings.

In other words: God accepts Temple sacrifices when they're offered by
people who exemplify the milk of human kindness, and He fully rejects the
offerings of insensitive jerks, which is exactly what the Pharisees of his day
were. They knew, and they practiced, the letter of Moses' covenanted law--
they dotted all the I's and they crossed all the T's. But they utterly failed to
exemplify the spirit of the law; which is summed up in just one simple
statement:

● Matt 7:12 . .Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do
to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

The spirit of Israel's covenanted law applies to Christians too. Maybe your
record of church attendance is 100%, and you tithe faithfully every week;
but let me tell you something: God is rejecting every last bit of your
superficial worship if you are by nature thoughtless, callous, and insensitive.
You'll be better off spending Sunday morning at a sports bar rather than
wasting God's time at church.

● Mic 6:8 . . He has told you, O man, what is good-- and what does Yhvh
require of you but to love kindness.

Conclusion: Unkind people shall be judged with neither sympathy nor pity,
and then afterwards; slammed with cruel and unusual punishment. Fair's
fair.

● Jas 2:13 . . For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no
mercy
_

Webers.Home · Jul 27, 2019

.
● Eph 4:32 . . Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each
other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

(chuckle) that resembles a line from one of Bill And Ted's adventure movies:
"Be excellent to each other"

Within the context of the letter Paul wrote and sent to the Christians residing
in the ancient city of Ephesus; the objects "one another" and "each other"
are exclusive; viz: the comments refer only to one's fellow Bible-believing
Christians rather than the world at large. So if you're unwilling to be kind
and compassionate to outsiders; at least be so with people at church so as
to help prevent church from becoming a hostile worship environment.

The koiné Greek word for "kind" is chrestos (khrase-tos') which means:
employed; viz: useful.

Chrestos is found in only seven places in the New Testament, and without
exception implies being beneficial to others for their own good rather than
using people to benefit your own self.

The word for "compassionate" is eusplagchnos (yoo'-splangkh-nos) which
means: sympathetic.

Webster's defines sympathy as: 1) an affinity, association, or relationship
between persons or things wherein whatever affects one similarly affects the
other, 2) inclination to think or feel alike: emotional or intellectual accord, 3)
feeling of loyalty: tendency to favor or support, 4) the act, or capacity, of
entering into or sharing the feelings or interests of another, 5) sensitivity,
and 6) heart; as in "have a heart".

The word "forgiving" is charizomai (khar-id'-zom-ahee) which essentially
means: to grant as a favor; viz: gratuitously, i.e. courtesy.

Webster's defines gratuitous as: 1) given unearned or without recompense,
2) not involving a return benefit or compensation or consideration, 3)
costing nothing: free, 4) not called for by the circumstances: unwarranted,
5) complimentary, 6) gratis, and 7) voluntary. In other words; charizomai
seeks no reciprocation; it never says "you owe me one"

Sailors are oft heard to say that the sea is very unforgiving: meaning it
allows no room for error or weakness. Christians ought not be like the sea.
We ought to be the most forgiving people on the planet; and not because we
expect others to reciprocate; but just because we enjoy being gratuitous.
For some Christians though, courtesy is an effort.

Eph 4:31-32 isn't easy. What we're looking at there is not just good
citizenship; no, what we're looking at is something divine in both its nature
and its behavior.

"If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any
fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, fulfill ye my joy, that ye
be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind."
(Phil 2:1-2)

The koiné Greek word for "bowels" is splagchnon (splangkh'-non) which
means: an intestine. Your gut is the very place where you "feel" pity and/or
sympathy for others-- that is; if you're capable of those kinds of feelings;
not everyone is.
_

MattforJesus · Jul 28, 2019

Defenderofgrace said:

I like those verses.

Love is wanting the best for all people in prosperity of what God wants them to have, and to want them to have food, and clothing, no matter how they act towards us whether good or bad.

Jesus said love your enemies, and pray for them, and bless them, and feed and clothe them.

When a person does someone wrong in the world they might say go to hell, but when a person does a saint wrong they should say go to heaven.

Webers.Home · Jul 28, 2019

.
● Matt 12:9-12 . . And departing from there, He went into their synagogue.
And behold, there was a man with a withered hand. And they questioned
him, saying: Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?-- in order that they might
accuse Him.

. . . And He said to them: What man shall there be among you, who shall
have one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will he not take hold
of it, and lift it out? Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep!

I didn't select that passage in order to start a discussion about Sabbath law.
My interest is in the importance that people place upon beasts in comparison
to the importance that Christ places upon human life.

One of the salient characteristics of psychopathy is that people afflicted with
it can form bonds and attachments to animals much easier than bonds and
attachments with people; viz: they're usually capable of feeling affection for
animals, while curiously incapable of feeling an equal amount for humans.
_

what is love?

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