Not By Works

[Noose]

YOU STILL DO NOT UNDERSTAND. It is Not about DEEDS, IT IS ABOUT THE MOTIVE FOR THE DEEDS. YOU have a selfish motive. You already said, you would prefer to do it yourself, with your human kind of LOVE, than to accept GODS LOVE he placed in you to do what you cannot.

Love is not a motive, never will it be. If love was only a motive then Christ would not have died for us.

1 John 3:
16By this we know what love is: Jesus laid down His life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. 17If anyone with earthly possessions sees his brother in need, but withholds his compassion from him, how can the love of God abide in him?

18Little children, let us love not in word and speech, but in action and truth.

 

[UnderGrace]

Acts 3:19Repent, then, and turn back,so that your sins may be wiped away,

Luke 13:3No, I tell you. But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4Or those eighteen who were killed when the tower of Siloam collapsed on them: Do you think that they were more sinful than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5No, I tell you. But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”

Repentance is the realization that we are not perfect and in need of change as shown above.

You only have half here, indeed we are not perfect (righteous) and the change of mind is ... believing on the Christ Jesus for salvation and receiving His righteousness.

Jesus wipes the sins away.

 

[Noose]

You only have half here, indeed we are not perfect (righteous) and the change of mind is ... believing on the Christ Jesus for salvation and receiving His righteousness.

Jesus wipes the sins away.

You also have it half. Believing in Christ for salvation is the initial stage, faith has to grow otherwise it will fail refinement process:

Zechariah 13:9
This third I will bring through the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say, 'They are My people,' and they will say, 'The LORD is our God.'"

1 Pet 1:7so that the authenticity of your faith— more precious than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire— may result in praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[UnderGrace]

You also have it half. Believing in Christ for salvation is the initial stage, faith has to grow otherwise it will fail refinement process:

Zechariah 13:9
This third I will bring through the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say, 'They are My people,' and they will say, 'The LORD is our God.'"

1 Pet 1:7so that the authenticity of your faith— more precious than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire— may result in praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

LOL.... There is only one event for salvation.....born from above/born again.

 

[UnderGrace]

You also have it half. Believing in Christ for salvation is the initial stage, faith has to grow otherwise it will fail refinement process:

Zechariah 13:9
This third I will bring through the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say, 'They are My people,' and they will say, 'The LORD is our God.'"

1 Pet 1:7so that the authenticity of your faith— more precious than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire— may result in praise, glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Discipleship is not salvation

 

[Noose]

Rom 3:30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the Law by this faith? Absolutely not! Instead, we uphold the Law.

Q. How do we uphold the law even more?

 

[VCO]

Noose said:
What's this?
You don't want to follow the law of your country but want to claim you are righteous. As long as those laws and bylaws don't violate God's commands you have to follow each one of them. They are not meant to frustrate anyone but to improve life.

And the verses you quoted are also talking about deeds. so what's your problem?

YOU STILL DO NOT UNDERSTAND. It is Not about DEEDS, IT IS ABOUT THE MOTIVE FOR THE DEEDS. YOU have a selfish motive. You already said, you would prefer to do it yourself, with your human kind of LOVE, than to accept GODS LOVE he placed in you to do what you cannot.

NO, I confess it as sin, every time I accidentally break the speed limit, or any other Ordinance of Man. I was hoping you would finally come to realize "I CANNOT KEEP THE LAW PERFECTLY."

You cannot keep GOD's commands PERFECTLY. Therefore all your Efforts amount to FILTHY RAGS. I am sorry ladies, but I have explain what kind of Rags that GOD is talking about. In the Hebrew Language, the term Filthy Rags, was not completely translated, because it spells out the TYPE of Filthy Rags it was talking about. It Literally was Filthy Menstrual Rags. NOW are you going to be FOOLISH ENOUGH to continue to think your own efforts are good enough to pass GOD's Inspection?

Isaiah 64:6 (NIV)
6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

YOU cannot even come close ENOUGH to KEEP GODS LAWS, because HE SAID IF YOU THINK YOU CAN KEEP THEM PERFECTLY through your own efforts, YOU ARE WRONG, BECAUSE YOU, WILL WITH ONE STUMBLE, and every time after that, WILL MAKE YOURSELF GUILTY OF VIOLATING ALL OF GOD'S LAWS. YOU FAIL MEASURABLY EVERY DAY. And until you come to full grips with HIM, mourning and grieving over HOW GREAT A SINNER YOU ARE; you will remain not YET born again.

James 2:10 (CSBBible)
10 For whoever keeps the entire law, and yet stumbles at one point, is guilty of breaking it all.

THE PURPOSE OF THE LAW, WAS NEVER DESIGNED AS A SYSTEM OF HOW WE CAN BE RIGHT WITH GOD. IT WAS TO CONVINCE US THAT WE CANNOT FULLY LIVE LIKE THAT, OUT OF OUR OWN EFFORTS, AND DRIVE AN UNDERSTANDING IN THAT WE DESPERATELY NEED A SAVIOR.
YOU HAVE TO DEPEND ON JESUS TOTALLY.

Romans 3:20 (HCSB)
20 For no one will be justified in His sight by the works of the law,
because the knowledge of sin ⌊comes⌋ through the law.

 

[Noose]

LOL.... There is only one event for salvation.....born from above/born again.

Yes. I believe that event is a culmination of a process and not the beginning of a process.

2 Peter 2:20If indeed they have escaped the corruption of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,e only to be entangled and overcome by it again, their final condition is worse than it was at first.21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and then to turn away from the holy commandment passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,”f and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”

Hebrews 3:6
But Christ is faithful as the Son over God's house. And we are His house, if we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope of which we boast.

 

[Noose]

Noose said:
What's this?
You don't want to follow the law of your country but want to claim you are righteous. As long as those laws and bylaws don't violate God's commands you have to follow each one of them. They are not meant to frustrate anyone but to improve life.

And the verses you quoted are also talking about deeds. so what's your problem?




NO, I confess it as sin, every time I accidentally break the speed limit, or any other Ordinance of Man. I was hoping you would finally come to realize "I CANNOT KEEP THE LAW PERFECTLY."

You cannot keep GOD's commands PERFECTLY. Therefore all your Efforts amount to FILTHY RAGS. I am sorry ladies, but I have explain what kind of Rags that GOD is talking about. In the Hebrew Language, the term Filthy Rags, was not completely translated, because it spells out the TYPE of Filthy Rags it was talking about. It Literally was Filthy Menstrual Rags. NOW are you going to be FOOLISH ENOUGH to continue to think your own efforts are good enough to pass GOD's Inspection?

Isaiah 64:6 (NIV)
6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

YOU cannot even come close ENOUGH to KEEP GODS LAWS, because HE SAID IF YOU THINK YOU CAN KEEP THEM PERFECTLY through your own efforts, YOU ARE WRONG, BECAUSE YOU, WILL WITH ONE STUMBLE, and every time after that, WILL MAKE YOURSELF GUILTY OF VIOLATING ALL OF GOD'S LAWS. YOU FAIL MEASURABLY EVERY DAY. And until you come to full grips with HIM, mourning and grieving over HOW GREAT A SINNER YOU ARE; you will remain not YET born again.

James 2:10 (CSBBible)
10 For whoever keeps the entire law, and yet stumbles at one point, is guilty of breaking it all.

THE PURPOSE OF THE LAW, WAS NEVER DESIGNED AS A SYSTEM OF HOW WE CAN BE RIGHT WITH GOD. IT WAS TO CONVINCE US THAT WE CANNOT FULLY LIVE LIKE THAT, OUT OF OUR OWN EFFORTS, AND DRIVE AN UNDERSTANDING IN THAT WE DESPERATELY NEED A SAVIOR.
YOU HAVE TO DEPEND ON JESUS TOTALLY.

Romans 3:20 (HCSB)
20 For no one will be justified in His sight by the works of the law,
because the knowledge of sin ⌊comes⌋ through the law.

Matt 5:20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

I think you are far from getting it.

Q. How is your righteousness going to exceed that of Pharisees?

I'm not saying anyone can surpass them in works.

 

[UnderGrace]

Yes. I believe that event is a culmination of a process and not the beginning of a process.

2 Peter 2:20If indeed they have escaped the corruption of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,e only to be entangled and overcome by it again, their final condition is worse than it was at first.21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and then to turn away from the holy commandment passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,”f and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”

Hebrews 3:6
But Christ is faithful as the Son over God's house. And we are His house, if we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope of which we boast.

Well then to state it simply, you would be wrong.

 

[Noose]

Well then to state it simply, you would be wrong.

Fair judgement. I never mind being told i'm wrong. I just want to ask a few questions though, maybe take this argument in a different direction.

Rom 8:
18I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

22We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he can already see? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently.

Q. How is your salvation (Faith in Christ in Christ), stopping the decay of the universe/ or will it stop the decay?

We are told the universe awaits the glory in us to be revealed.

 

[UnderGrace]

Fair judgement. I never mind being told i'm wrong. I just want to ask a few questions though, maybe take this argument in a different direction.

Rom 8:
18I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

22We know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until the present time. 23Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he can already see? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently.

Q. How is your salvation (Faith in Christ in Christ), stopping the decay of the universe/ or will it stop the decay?

We are told the universe awaits the glory in us to be revealed.

You might be a first then.

Okay I understand your position better but I need to think on the above.

 

[VCO]

Love is not a motive, never will it be. If love was only a motive then Christ would not have died for us.

1 John 3:
16By this we know what love is: Jesus laid down His life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. 17If anyone with earthly possessions sees his brother in need, but withholds his compassion from him, how can the love of God abide in him?

18Little children, let us love not in word and speech, but in action and truth.

You make NO SENSE AT ALL. I said, GOD searches the Heart for the MOTIVE behind the deed that GOD's LOVE spawns our Obedience.

Earn SALVATION is the WRONG MOTIVE.

1 Chronicles 28:9 (NASB)
9 "As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.

You have already rejected GOD's LOVE, in favor of your own love.

Revelation 2:23 (NCV)
23 I will also kill her followers. Then all the churches will know I am the One who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you for what you have done.




YOU JUST WANT TO ARGUE. It appears your heart is as cold as ice, NO GODLY LOVE IN IT. That is a DIVISIVE ATTITUDE.


Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.

THAT IS TWO. Repent! NEXT STEP will be Put You On My Permanent IGNORE LIST.

 

[VCO]

Interesting how the occult mystery religions like to imitate and include some truth and then subvert or corrupt it.

I the Greek Mystery Religions, they spoke in an imitation of TONGUE, 400 years before CHRIST. In fact Plato, the Greek philosopher, who lived from 427-347 B.C., referred to this euphoric state of ecstasy as “divine frenzy”. And even said, "It was as if I had linked up with the gods." Satin has always wanted to imitate GOD's Miracles. Remember Pharaoh's Magicians turned their Staffs to snakes ALSO, by the power of Satin. What amazes me is how many Christians do not think Satin has the Power to do Miracles.

 

[dcontroversal]

Love is not a motive, never will it be. If love was only a motive then Christ would not have died for us.

.

The second most idiotic statement I have seen on this site in my almost 6 years here.....2 in one day...man you are on a roll.....I have never seen in my life................wow

For God so loved the world.......

Dude....you really need to leave this site and take a few years and wrap your head around the truth.....

 

[UnderGrace]

The second most idiotic statement I have seen on this site in my almost 6 years here.....2 in one day...man you are on a roll.....I have never seen in my life................wow

Yup, people often slide into all kinds of irrational arguments when they cannot support if from scripture.

However, desperation can be a good thing sometimes.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yup, people often slide into all kinds of irrational arguments when they cannot support if from scripture.

However, desperation can be a good thing sometimes.

I cannot believe some of the things that get posted.......it is as if people do not read, cannot comprehend and or just flat reject what the bible states......

 

[VCO]

Discipleship is not salvation

I agree, because of this VERSE. John 6:66 (seems appropriate). Anyhow, they were not Born Again believers, but just Followers that stopped short of GENUINE SAVING FAITH.

John 6:66 (NIV)
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

They fall into this Catagory:

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

 

[UnderGrace]

I cannot believe some of the things that get posted.......it is as if people do not read, cannot comprehend and or just flat reject what the bible states......

Makes me think of this....



grasp at straws
To make a desperate attempt to salvage a bad situation. A: "But what about all those times I took the trash out when you hadn't even asked me to?" B: "That has nothing to do with why you're in trouble now, so stop grasping at straws."
See also: grasp, straw
Farlex Dictionary of Idioms. © 2015 Farlex, Inc, all rights reserved.
grasping at straws
Fig. to depend on something that is useless; to make a futile attempt at something. John couldn't answer the teacher's question. He was just grasping at straws. There I was, grasping at straws, with no one to help me.
See also: grasping, straw
McGraw-Hill Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs. © 2002 by The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc.
grasp at straws
Also, clutch at straws. Make a desperate attempt at saving oneself. For example, He had lost the argument, but he kept grasping at straws, naming numerous previous cases that had little to do with this one . This metaphoric expression alludes to a drowning person trying to save himself by grabbing at flimsy reeds. First recorded in 1534, the term was used figuratively by the late 1600s.

 

[stillness]

The bible's version of hope.....a CONFIDENT EXPECTATION OF SOMETHING GUARANTEED........people...do not for one micro second believe this lying false hope and fake inept religious blather peddled by the salvation losers....Jesus saves to the uttermost, keeps us by his power and states clealry he will LOSE NOTHING....his gift is irrevocable and we have been born from above by incorruptible seed and given EYERNAL LIFE....not some temporary losable life based upon what we do or do not do......what they peddle REEKS of religious ineptism and SLAVERY.......we have been set feee from that garbage!!

You say: you are confused, that's a long spill to say you can't discern different languages saying the same thing differently, and your not alone in this immaturity of thinking you have arrived and can't fall out of Grace. Just like not of works does not mean not to work, as even repentance is work by the influence of Grace: to enter Faith, "Through Faith." Godly sorrow leads to repentance, change of direction. Unless we continue in godly sorrow, to continually repent, we are in danger of pride of achievment; thinking we have arrived: the very thing not of works was intended to mean. "If any man thinks he knows, he does not know as he shoud." If we think we know God in our understanding and that we are saved by our understanding of God, we have stopped learning and in danger of fallling from Grace. "If any may thinks he stands, let him take heed lest he fall."