Works can NEVER earn salvation

[PS]

That is where we differ in our beliefs. You subscribe to Covenant Theology and it requires you to believe that faith is shown in the same way throughout the entire Bible.

That is a very popular way of understanding salvation so I understand where you are coming from. To you, it is considered heresy to ever consider that there was a time where God required Man to show their faith by their works.

That is absolutely stupid. Our 'works,' our life, and everything we do is a witness, or otherwise, to our faith in God. It always has been and always will be.

Cain, the same as people today, gave lip service to God, but his actions, and our actions today can tell a different story.

 

[Guojing]

That is absolutely stupid. Our 'works,' our life, and everything we do is a witness, or otherwise, to our faith in God. It always has been and always will be.

Cain, the same as people today, gave lip service to God, but his actions, and our actions today can tell a different story.

Make up your mind about salvation. Is it faith alone apart from works or faith and works together.

Although I can anticipate what is coming....🤣

 

[PS]

Make up your mind about salvation. Is it faith alone apart from works or faith and works together.

Although I can anticipate what is coming....🤣

We are saved by faith alone and how we live our life is whether or not Christ lives within our hearts. I question if people who rely on works for salvation, really have been saved.

 

[Guojing]

We are saved by faith alone and how we live our life is whether or not Christ lives within our hearts. I question if people who rely on works for salvation, really have been saved.

So for those who lived in the ot before Christ, how could Christ live in their hearts?

What do they put their faith in?

 

[PS]

So for those who lived in the ot before Christ, how could Christ live in their hearts?

What do they put their faith in?

They put their faith in the Good Shepherd like David did. Those who put their trust in Him, not in themselves, will dwell in the House of the Lord for ever.

 

[Guojing]

They put their faith in the Good Shepherd like David did. Those who put their trust in Him, not in themselves, will dwell in the House of the Lord for ever.

I see, thanks for explaining

 

[fredoheaven]

No one is saying that here. I am merely trying to say that, before the grace dispensation, works were required to show your faith before God.

Abel could not have told God then, "I believe in Jesus's death burial and resurrection and am justified apart from my works!"

But we can do that now, that is how we show our faith NOW.

Even in the grace period, work were required to SHOW your faith before God. I seem you are troubled. Showing or demonstrating your faith means you indeed work out your salvation. Works are evidence, proof that you have faith. The heroes of faith in Hebrews 11 proved their faith. By proving (giving evidence) they obtain a GOOD REPORT. The fact still remains they were saved by faith and not their good works.

Hebrews 11 King James Version (KJV)
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

 

[fredoheaven]

Like I said, people want to ignore what Genesis 4:7 explicitly stated, God instructed Cain to do well and he will be accepted. He did not ask Cain to "believe well" or "have the correct faith".

Covenant Theologians have this fixed doctrine that it was ALWAYS by grace thru faith for salvation after Adam's fall, so they will naturally try to argue from silence, in passages like these.

That is understandable, we can agree to disagree here.

Here is what respected Radio Bible Teacher Warren Wiersbe says:

God accepted Abel and his sacrifice, and perhaps indicated this by sending fire from heaven to consume the animals (Lev. 9:24; 1 Kings 18:38; 1 Chron. 21:26), but He rejected Cain and his sacrifice. Cain wasn’t rejected because of his offering, but his offering was rejected because of Cain: His heart wasn’t right with God. It was “by faith” that Abel offered a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain (Heb. 11:4), which means that he had faith in God and was right with God.
In later years, the law of Moses prescribed offerings of grain and fruit (Lev. 2; Deut. 26:1-11), so we have reason to believe that such sacrifices were acceptable from the beginning. But even had Cain brought animal sacrifices and shed their blood, they wouldn’t have been accepted by God because of the state of Cain’s heart. Abel brought the best that he had and truly sought to please God, but Cain didn’t have that attitude of faith. “Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams” (1 Sam. 15:22; and see Isa. 1:11-13; Hos. 6:6; Mic. 6:6-8; Mark 12:28-34).

 

[mailmandan]

You need to study scripture;

Mark 1:4 tells us that baptism is for the remission of sins....."John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins."

It's you who needs to study scripture. So was this baptism of repentance in Mark 1:4 (for/eis) "in order to obtain" the remission of sins or was it (for/eis) "in regards to/on the basis of" the remission of sins received upon repentance? Be careful before you answer! Elsewhere you stated that "the thief thief on the cross was not under the new covenant which requires water baptism" so the implication is that water baptism was not required for salvation before the new covenant was established and Mark 1:4 was before the new covenant.

You are wrong with scripture...here.
The thief on the cross was not under the new covenant which requires water baptism.
I suggest studying scriptures.

I often hear Campbellites use this same argument in a desperate attempt to "get around" the fact that the thief on the cross was saved through faith, yet was unable to receive water baptism before he died.

In Matthew 3:11, we read - I baptize you with water (for/eis) repentance.. *Now was this baptism (for/eis) "in order to obtain" repentance? or was it (for/eis) "in regards to/on the basis of" repentance? Of course baptized in order to obtain repentance makes no sense at all. Repentance PRECEDES water baptism.

*You need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine.*

 

[cv5]

It's you who needs to study scripture. So was this baptism of repentance in Mark 1:4 (for/eis) "in order to obtain" the remission of sins or was it (for/eis) "in regards to/on the basis of" the remission of sins received upon repentance? Be careful before you answer! Elsewhere you stated that "the thief thief on the cross was not under the new covenant which requires water baptism" so the implication is that water baptism was not required for salvation before the new covenant was established and Mark 1:4 was before the new covenant.

I often hear Campbellites use this same argument in a desperate attempt to "get around" the fact that the thief on the cross was saved through faith, yet was unable to receive water baptism before he died.

In Matthew 3:11, we read - I baptize you with water (for/eis) repentance.. *Now was this baptism (for/eis) "in order to obtain" repentance? or was it (for/eis) "in regards to/on the basis of" repentance? Of course baptized in order to obtain repentance makes no sense at all. Repentance PRECEDES water baptism.

*You need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine.*

"Repentance PRECEDES water baptism"
No doubt about that.

IMO Satan teaches this protocol the other way around. Pity the man who likewise distorts and teaches the same.

 

[Smooth]

Make up your mind about salvation. Is it faith alone apart from works or faith and works together.

Although I can anticipate what is coming....🤣

What works will you partake in today to maintain your salvation?

 

[Guojing]

What works will you partake in today to maintain your salvation?

None.

 

[Smooth]

So for those who lived in the ot before Christ, how could Christ live in their hearts?

What do they put their faith in?

You need only look at Abraham. He believed God and was deemed righteous because of it.

 

[Smooth]

None.

Then you’re damned according to your works salvation theology. That’s too bad. God wants better for you.

 

[Guojing]

Then you’re damned according to your works salvation theology. That’s too bad. God wants better for you.

How did you come to that conclusion that I believe its works for salvation now?

 

[Smooth]

How did you come to that conclusion that I believe its works for salvation now?

On the top of the page your correspondence with PS gave me concern that you believe works are required to maintain your salvation. I apologize if I misunderstood you and I rejoice for you if I was wrong.

 

[dcontroversal]

So for those who lived in the ot before Christ, how could Christ live in their hearts?

What do they put their faith in?

WOW.......In the volume of the book it is written of me........SEARCH the scriptures for they are they that testify of me..........do you even study the word of GOD or just make it up as you go.......the entire BIBLE points to CHRIST and testifies of his redeeming work....

God killing animals and shedding blood to cover Adam and Eve's shame
Genesis 3:15 first promise and prophecy of victory
Abel offering blood
Passover and lamb without blemish and spot
Job knowing his redeemer lives and will see him with his eyes after he has rotted in the ground
Brazen Serpent lifted up
7 offerings of the law
Abraham offering Isaac
SCAPE goat
Kinsmen redeemer

and on and on and on.....DAVID spoke of his salvation in the present tense

You really should take a break and wrap your head around the truth.....serious.....

 

[Guojing]

On the top of the page your correspondence with PS gave me concern that you believe works are required to maintain your salvation. I apologize if I misunderstood you and I rejoice for you if I was wrong.

I guess the past tenses I used may not be clear enough to every reader.

 

[dcontroversal]

On the top of the page your correspondence with PS gave me concern that you believe works are required to maintain your salvation. I apologize if I misunderstood you and I rejoice for you if I was wrong.

No, he has been peddling that OT saints were saved by a faith works blend.....false

 

[cv5]

What works will you partake in today to maintain your salvation?

I hope this person doesn't miss any. I could be disastrous.