Free Will verses Fate/Divine Intervention: Judas Iscariot "free will" verses Saul/Paul "fate"

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Victor1999

Victor1999

Active member
#21
Jul 8, 2019
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#21
God knows what we will do in any situation that we are put in and how it will affect everyone and everything around us. Nobody can ask him why things are the way they are, but we can be sure that it is the best we can get with the choices we've made, and that is not necessarily the best for ourselves, but the best for everyone, because God's will is the best. This is my understanding, that fate is God's plan built around our pre-known free will decisions, and it was decided once at the beginning and didn't change since. I believe that in the beginning God already knew how everything would end.
 
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pomeranian

Banned
#22
Jul 22, 2019
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#22
Nehemiah6 said:
No. Those are two different Greek words. The devil is diabolos, but the word for demon is daimonion. However in John 6:70, the word diabolos is used, and correctly translated as "a devil". So here Judas was equated with Satan.
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Hello Nehemiah6 Your responses confuse me? You say he is a devil Jesus equates with Satan, but you also say he could obtain forgiveness. Do you believe Satan can obtain forgiveness?
 
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pomeranian

Banned
#23
Jul 22, 2019
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#23
Lanolin said:
I think its both...

Judas was remorseful after he betrayed Jesus but he killed himself before he had the chance to be forgiven.
PAul did make a choice to follow Jesus after being spoken to, he could have turned away and not obeyed. He would have stayed blind if he hadnt asked forgiveness or repented though.
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Hi when you say Judas killed himself before he had a chance to be forgiven but indeed he was remorseful, I ask this remorse is a feeling of deep regret, repentance is when remorse is so strong we cannot live with it and must ask for Christ to wash it away. Judas could not live with his actions which implies he may have felt repentance. Why do you think hedid not ask for forgiveness?
Question: do you believe if a person dies quickly of an accident immediately after they have committed a sin for which they are remorseful they are damned?
 
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pomeranian

Banned
#25
Jul 22, 2019
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#25
eternally-gratefull said:
Paul still had to make a choice to recieve Gods gift. He could have rejected that and we never would have heard

Judas chose to reject from the beginning, thats why he continued to sin.
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So your thoughts are it is by choice alone?
 
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pomeranian

Banned
#27
Jul 22, 2019
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#27
Smooth said:
IMO Judas Iscariot’s suicide was repentance. If it were not so, he would have thoroughly enjoyed those 30 pieces of silver.
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My statement was "Judas was unrepentant of his sin of stealing from the money box" as you know sin opens the door that lets Satan in. I feel Judas indeed was remorseful to the point of repentance as he could not even live with the sin he had committed.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#28
#28
pomeranian said:
So your thoughts are it is by choice alone?
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No

No one would chose to come to Christ by himself.

We are drawn, taught, and convicted by God.. he does all the work. In the end, we chose to say yes or no.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#29
#29
pomeranian said:
My statement was "Judas was unrepentant of his sin of stealing from the money box" as you know sin opens the door that lets Satan in. I feel Judas indeed was remorseful to the point of repentance as he could not even live with the sin he had committed.
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The difference in peter and Judas is quite amazing, in their reactions.

Peter showed true remorse. And was strengthened by Christ and went on to help build a church.

Judas shows worldly sorrow.. Even to the point of taking his life..
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#31
Dec 12, 2013
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#31
Smooth said:
IMO Judas Iscariot’s suicide was repentance. If it were not so, he would have thoroughly enjoyed those 30 pieces of silver.
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I do not believe that for one second.....he went to the priests and did not get right.....he died a lost man THE son of perdition and a devil from the beginning......worldly sorrow does not = godly repentance.......
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#32
Dec 12, 2013
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#32
pomeranian said:
Good Morning dcontroversal, I had a lovely week-end I hope you did also. Everything that I feel, say or reiterate concerning the Lord Jesus or his Father or Scripture is directly a result of the knowledge given to me by the Holy Spirit of GOD that resides within me for without this I am blind and have no knowledge other than what mere man could teach me. I have no intention nor would I ever want to attempt to change anothers beliefs, if GOD has shown you a different aspect to his word; then his will be done.
I feel a persons job is to present themselves as examples of Jesus and let the light of GOD the Father shine from their eyes and words. I believe that when in an attempt to share the message that has given to you by the Holy Spirit you should be sure that the fruits of the Holy Spirit are visible within your teaching.
Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
People of GOD are known by these fruits.
If you cannot speak to me using these fruits of the Spirit, than I lovingly request that we discontinue talking. I thanked GOD on Friday for the wonderful gift of this site, so that I could share with my fellow man the message that the Spirit has given me.
When I look at the manner in which you present your views I find them harsh and unpleasant; when you call yourself a Christian "a disciple of Christ" you are representing Christ and what he taught. Your calling me "ignorant=lacking in knowledge" or telling me I have no understanding and suggesting that I translate words like be, is and the; this is not teaching from Christ and is not fruits of the Spirit of GOD. If you presented yourself in this manner to one who was not firm in their faith, your teaching manner and representation might in all likelihood "turn a person away from Christianity" I have been shown the "truth" I am sorry that yours and my "truth" differ. I will not look up the words be, is and the, I feel no desire to do so.
Please if you respond to any of my posts do so with the fruits of the Spirit or I will no longer respond. May the Holy Spirit of GOD be with you.
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AND you just judged my motive, heart and are false......

JESUS, Elijah, PAUL and John the Baptist all responded to spiritually inept drivel with heat, sarcasm, and very pointed names and derogatory statements.....do you believe they had the SPIRIT or the fruits of the SPIRIT.........and what i said is true....if you HAD understanding of a GREEK "BE" verb, you would see that your view if false.....so......one of the sings of spiritual immaturity is being easily offended ..........so...............

If you cannot handle a little heat right now on a website from someone that you cannot even see without judging motive and being easily offended......you are in for it when the crap really hits the fan for believers........!!!!!!!!!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#33
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#33
eternally-gratefull said:
The difference in peter and Judas is quite amazing, in their reactions.

Peter showed true remorse. And was strengthened by Christ and went on to help build a church.

Judas shows worldly sorrow.. Even to the point of taking his life..
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Exactly....and worldly sorrow does not = godly repentance.....
 
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pomeranian

Banned
#35
Jul 22, 2019
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#35
eternally-gratefull said:
No

No one would chose to come to Christ by himself.

We are drawn, taught, and convicted by God.. he does all the work. In the end, we chose to say yes or no.
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If you had been alive at the time of Jesus; would you have left all your worldly possessions to follow him?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#36
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#36
dcontroversal said:
AND you just judged my motive/heart and are false......

JESUS, Elijah, PAUL and John the Baptist all responded to spiritually inept drivel with heat, sarcasm, and very pointed names and derogatory statements.....do you believe they had the SPIRIT or the fruits of the SPIRIT.........and what I said is true....if you HAD understanding of a GREEK "BE" verb, you would see that your view is false.....so......one of the signs of spiritual immaturity is being easily offended ..........so...............

If you cannot handle a little heat right now on a website from someone that you cannot even see without judging motive and being easily offended......you are in for it when the crap really hits the fan for believers........!!!!!!!!!
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WOW.....I need to give my own bad spelling check HAHAH BOLDED FIXED
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#38
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#38
UnderGrace said:
I agree, but no one can know a man's last thoughts/heart/mind before he dies, and I do not think scripture tells us?
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Well.........I agree with the bolded, but his actions do speak and what the bible has to say about him speaks as well.....I will never be able to get over the following four words that are applied to Judas..

IS
THE
NOT ALL
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#39
#39
pomeranian said:
If you had been alive at the time of Jesus; would you have left all your worldly possessions to follow him?
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What does that have to do with anything?
Do you understand WHY jesus asked that man to do that?
 
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pomeranian

Banned
#40
Jul 22, 2019
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#40
dcontroversal said:
AND you just judged my motive, heart and are false......

JESUS, Elijah, PAUL and John the Baptist all responded to spiritually inept drivel with heat, sarcasm, and very pointed names and derogatory statements.....do you believe they had the SPIRIT or the fruits of the SPIRIT.........and what i said is true....if you HAD understanding of a GREEK "BE" verb, you would see that your view if false.....so......one of the sings of spiritual immaturity is being easily offended ..........so...............

If you cannot handle a little heat right now on a website from someone that you cannot even see without judging motive and being easily offended......you are in for it when the crap really hits the fan for believers........!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
dcontroversal said:
AND you just judged my motive, heart and are false......

JESUS, Elijah, PAUL and John the Baptist all responded to spiritually inept drivel with heat, sarcasm, and very pointed names and derogatory statements.....do you believe they had the SPIRIT or the fruits of the SPIRIT.........and what i said is true....if you HAD understanding of a GREEK "BE" verb, you would see that your view if false.....so......one of the sings of spiritual immaturity is being easily offended ..........so...............

If you cannot handle a little heat right now on a website from someone that you cannot even see without judging motive and being easily offended......you are in for it when the crap really hits the fan for believers........!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
If you feel my words have judged you in any way; I am sorry that was in no way my intent and I will try my best to not do it again. Sometimes I feel I am over zealous, if you feel I have offended you please forgive me.
For honestly's your correct in your assumtion that I cannot handle heat, my preference of course is peace and love over strife and heat. As for the end times when "the crap really hits the fan for believers" I will trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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