Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
All sin leads to death and that's why we need a savior, but after being cleansed by this savior we can't repeat some sins. In 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Paul says that people who commit certain kinds of sin will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

If all sins were equal Paul would not have listed the sins above; instead, he would have written: "Sinners will not inherit the Kingdom of God".
Paul said that they were those people.. It was their lifestyle. They were sinners. UNJUSTIFIED SINNERS. He di not say they stopped. As you are insinuating with your line of reasoning,

I am sorry my friend. But your sin is no less serious then their sin, It is more serious in society, thus the more extreme temporal punishment, But ALL SIN leads to death. No matter how small it is. As james said, if we keep the HWOL LAW yet stumble in ONE POINT, we are GUILTY OF ALL.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You mean we can sin as much as we want?
Please show me here I said that

Also. Please show me where a TRUE child of God wants to sin? Even paul said he did not want to do the things he did.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
2,359
859
113
73
This is so, and some who willfully sin slip hopelessly into apostacy:

Heb 6:4-6 NIV It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, (5) who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, (6) if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.


In this state, many wish for repentance but cannot find it.
My brother, let me tell some stories:

Throughout my professional life I had many coworkers who were "Christians". One of them was an annoying womanizer who was praised by all unbelievers: "Oh, John Doe is an open minded believer; he can't remember all the women he has slept with".

There were many other "Christians" who were not so promiscuous, but they had sex with other women occasionally.

A married female coworker was a "committed" Christian who kept evangelizing the whole corporation. I really thought she was a true Christian until the day a friend told me he had had sex with her. A few days after the "event" reported by my friend, I had given that female coworker a ride home and she avoided talking about God, the subject that I like most. She looked different. Then a few weeks later another friend told me that he witnessed the whole romance story except the act, of course. Later on I heard more stories about her.

This is the result of a watered down gospel in which not tithing is the only unforgivable sin.
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
Perhaps, not lost. Just relying a little to heavily that grace will save him? And when finding it won't? Makes him a very saddened young ruler? :)
I could be wrong, but there appears to be two separate steps for the rich young ruler first; the "Kingdom of Heaven" which he inquired into, to which Jesus clarified the entry requirements which he testifies he has kept. The account which leaves us with a sound conclusion that he will receive what he inquired into goes on as if the rich young ruler senses something more is available. When he inquires into that, he is met with the details from Jesus as if He is saying if you seek to "come up higher"/perfection then as Jesus tells him step down lower in this world. This appears to be the gateway into the Kingdom of God.

Remember that in the Mark account when Jesus hears him say all these thing have I kept from my youth;

Mar 10:20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
Mar 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him,./..."

I take from this that Jesus recognized a justified man worthy of the Kingdom of God.

Very interested in your feedback.

:) SG
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
My brother, let me tell some stories:

Throughout my professional life I had many coworkers who were "Christians". One of them was an annoying womanizer who was praised by all unbelievers: "Oh, John Doe is an open minded believer; he can't remember all the women he has slept with".

There were many other "Christians" who were not so promiscuous, but they had sex with other women occasionally.

A married female coworker was a "committed" Christian who kept evangelizing the whole corporation. I really thought she was a true Christian until the day a friend told me he had had sex with her. A few days after the "event" reported by my friend, I had given that female coworker a ride home and she avoided talking about God, the subject that I like most. She looked different. Then a few weeks later another friend told me that he witnessed the whole romance story except the act, of course. Later on I heard more stories about her.

This is the result of a watered down gospel in which not tithing is the only unforgivable sin.

When people are Godly people can see it, when communities are Godly people can feel it, When nations are Godly the people walk in it! Sadly when you replace "Godly" with "carnal" it fits and makes sense. It is so important to Love our neighbors since they make up our communities which make up our nations..

That last sentence was a big hit that landed right at the heart of the religious corporations.
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
Yep it did

4 Now the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘If a person sins unintentionally against any of the commandments of the Lord in anything which ought not to be done, and does any of them, 3 if the anointed priest sins, bringing guilt on the people, then let him offer to the Lord for his sin which he has sinned a young bull without blemish as a sin offering. 4 He shall bring the bull to the door of the tabernacle of meeting before the Lord, lay his hand on the bull’s head, and kill the bull before the Lord. 5 Then the anointed priest shall take some of the bull’s blood and bring it to the tabernacle of meeting. 6 The priest shall dip his finger in the blood and sprinkle some of the blood seven times before the Lord, in front of the veil of the sanctuary. 7 And the priest shall put some of the blood on the horns of the altar of sweet incense before the Lord, which is in the tabernacle of meeting; and he shall pour the remaining blood of the bull at the base of the altar of the burnt offering, which is at the door of the tabernacle of meeting. 8 He shall take from it all the fat of the bull as the sin offering. The fat that covers the entrails and all the fat which is on the entrails, 9 the two kidneys and the fat that is on them by the flanks, and the fatty lobe attached to the liver above the kidneys, he shall remove, 10 as it was taken from the bull of the sacrifice of the peace offering; and the priest shall burn them on the altar of the burnt offering. 11 But the bull’s hide and all its flesh, with its head and legs, its entrails and offal— 12 the whole bull he shall carry outside the camp to a clean place, where the ashes are poured out, and burn it on wood with fire; where the ashes are poured out it shall be burned.

Notice, that even unintentional sin had a part of its penalty the shedding of blood, Or DEATH.

So the thought that just intentional sin causes death is a thought not found in scripture.

Plus as moses said, Whoever does not OBEY EVERY WORD is under a curse. He did not say unless it was unintentional or it was an accidental sin (ps, there is no such thing)

Do you find any occurrences of mercy in the scripture? Never heard you mention it.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
Hebrews 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. Where do they go?

Hebrews 9:6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
Hebrews 9:7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: Jesus becomes our High Priest, our mediator
Hebrews 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing The first one had an ending date.

Hebrews 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience but a lamb of infinite value, that would give you confidance

Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. These things not done with 2nd covenant so where do they go? But there are still heavenly things to consider, Spiritual
Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building

Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
once again, where do they go? But there are still heavenly things to consider, Spiritual
Hebrews 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Hebrews 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Things hard to say

I'm sad if you feel that people have dug a pit for you, or are trying to trap you.

I sense for some nice folks that they have dug a pit for themselves. It is my hope that I can throw down a rope or something. Sometimes we get surrounded with things from our mind, surround ourselves, and it's not until we try to explain it to other people, explain how these things work, that we can see that the edges of the pit that we are in are starting to crumble away and we are free.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Do you find any occurrences of mercy in the scripture? Never heard you mention it.

Yeah it’s called grace it what saved me. It is what the killing was f the animal for the unintentional sin purchased for the sinner who committed the unintentionally sin


So are you saying god only forgives unintentional sin and not all sin?
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
Yeah it’s called grace it what saved me. It is what the killing was f the animal for the unintentional sin purchased for the sinner who committed the unintentionally sin

So are you saying god only forgives unintentional sin and not all sin?
Any OT mentions of it?
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
What do you think the purpose of the animal sacrifices where?

Remember we are talking eternal consequences here not temporal

Do you gather from the OT that God preferred obedience to sacrifices?


Do you gather from the NT that God prefers obedience to Grace from a "born again" believer?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Do you gather from the OT that God preferred obedience to sacrifices?


Do you gather from the NT that God prefers obedience to Grace from a "born again" believer?
What I gather is the OT showed that grace came at a cost that cost was blood

And the my requires the same

The blood that actually gave grace was she’s on the cross

Obedience is ALWAYS preferred but obedience as the law requires is perfection

Again break one law no matter how small a sin it is your under guilt

Why is it you can not see this?
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
What I gather is the OT showed that grace came at a cost that cost was blood

And the my requires the same

The blood that actually gave grace was she’s on the cross

Obedience is ALWAYS preferred but obedience as the law requires is perfection

Again break one law no matter how small a sin it is your under guilt

Why is it you can not see this?

Don't know if you answered my questions
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Don't know if you answered my questions
I answered your question about 5 posts ago

You said god allowed mercy for unintentional sin

I PROVED his mercy was based on animal sacrifice

Then you tried to shift the conversatio to God showing mercy

And I said yes, by the shedding of blood. Mercy was not cheap it cost an animal (OT) and ultimately christ, his blood and life

Then you shifted again to onedience, and I refuse to go there, because that has NOthIGN to do with our origional conversation. ,

For someone reason you do not like to talk about the price of grace And that is. Sad.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,342
29,590
113
Do you gather from the OT that God preferred obedience to sacrifices?

Do you gather from the NT that God prefers obedience to Grace from a "born again" believer?
On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.
Hosea 6:6
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings. Hosea 6:6
Thank You Magenta :) Excellent verses!

SG
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
Hos 6:6 NASB For I delight in loyalty rather than sacrifice, And in the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
I'm not a law-keeper, but I still haven't found a single piece of evidence -- in the Gospels -- that Jesus ever told us to stop keeping the Law. Should we rely solely on what Paul said?

Greetings Marcelo,

If we look at;

Hos 6:6 NASB For I delight in loyalty rather than sacrifice, And in the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.

and where Jesus quoted the above in;

Mat 9:12-13 NASB But when Jesus heard this, He said, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick. (13) "But go and learn what this means: 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Can we see the intent of our redeemer towards "Fidelity" of "faithfulness" as you shared earlier today?