Joshua Harris Leaving His Wife and His Faith :(

[seed_time_harvest]

according to GOD's commandments which is the greater sin homosexuality or adultery (both seem to be running rampant in this time) or is all sexually immoral sin equal? Keeping in mind an involuntary semen emission renders a body unclean for a time.
Leviticus 15:16 “If a man has an emission of semen, he shall bathe his whole body in water and be unclean until the evening.

You mean according to the Old covenant that was against us because of the weakness of the flesh that JESUS nailed to the cross?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Again, you neglect to take 1 John 2:19 into account. If this fellow goes the rest of his life in unbelief it proves HE WAS NEVER saved to begin with, NOT that he was saved, born again, and died a Spiritually death again.[/quoted]

Hello PennEd,

I John 2:19 does not infer that the person was never saved. However, we do have scriptures that show that true believers can lose their salvation.

"My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, consider this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and cover over a multitude of sins."

* "My brothers" would be referring to believers.

* In order to "wander from the truth," one would have to already be in the truth

* If the believer who has wandered from the truth is brought back by another believer, then a multitude of sins will be covered over and he will be saved from death, which demonstrates the state of believers who have wandered away. Consider something else that Jesus said:

"Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels."

The above was not a casual saying by the Lord. On the contrary, it infers that He can and will blot names out of the book of life for those believers who do not overcome and remain soiled. The point being is that, in order for ones name to be blotted out of the book of life, it would have had to be in the book of life, making them true believers.

It is not "once saved always saved". It's Once BORN AGAIN, FOREVER HIS CHILD! Of course OBAFHIC doesn't quite have the ring to it as OSAS does! LOL

Born again is dependent upon continuing in faith from first to last. Go back and look at Col.1:22-23.

As for the warnings, I believe they are there for those that THINK they are saved. Paul is exhorting those who take the Name of Lord, Christians, to examine THEMSELVES, and if they are caught up in some of the laundry list of sins chronicled in several epistles, they must repent, NOT OF THE SINS (although that will come) but that they have never truly believed that Jesus IS God come in the flesh, HAS DIED for THEIR sins, rose on the 3rd day, and that NOTHING they do can aid Him in what He has done for them and to them.

I don't believe that. Paul calls them brothers and it's not only Paul where the warnings are coming from, but from the whole word of God.

"But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die."

This is why I am so troubled by those that think God will toss some of His Children in hell, by losing their Salvation because of something THEY did, or didn't do. I am concerned if they truly DO believe Jesus' atoning Sacrifice is enough. I am not angry or care about scoring pts. I am saddened by them.

That something that "THEY did, or didn't do" is have faith, not works. I'm not saying anything that scripture is not saying, i.e. that we are saved by grace through faith (on-going faith).

I've already demonstrated two scriptures above that show that they were true believers and below is another one:

"But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

In the parable above, please note the use of the words "servant and master" which symbolically represent the believer and the Lord. It demonstrates the servant/believer going back into willfully living according to the sinful nature and the consequences of that action if he is found doing so when the Lord returns.

I respect you has a brother PennEd, but based on scripture as a whole, I believe that faith is what puts one and keeps one in Christ. And if they fall away from that faith, they are accumulating sin which leads to death. However, as James 5:19-20 states, if another believer turns the one who wandered away back to their faith, then the sins that they will have accumulated in that state will be covered over and they will be saved from death.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello SpoonJuly,

Disagreement without any scripture to back it up proves nothing. Please address those scriptures that I listed regarding the unfaithful servant, names being blotted out of the book of life and those who wander found in James 5:19-20.

It is faith from first to last that we are saved, not a one a one time confession

 

[SpoonJuly]

So you are on who believes Jesus can save but has no power to keep.
That is called works for salvation.
If Jesus does not have the power to keep you saved, He does not have the power to save you in the beginning.
John 10:28-30

 

[SpoonJuly]

Hello SpoonJuly,

Disagreement without any scripture to back it up proves nothing. Please address those scriptures that I listed regarding the unfaithful servant, names being blotted out of the book of life and those who wander found in James 5:19-20.

It is faith from first to last that we are saved, not a one a one time confession

It is Jesus that saves and keeps one saved.

John 10: 28-30

No man can take you from Jesus, not even you.

 

[Godsgirl83]

I'm sorry, but I find it a little bullying to say we can't discuss this here.

Out of respect, I won't get into a "debate" over what "I find to be a little bullying".

 

[pomeranian]

It seems both are pretty bad and are not mutually exclusive.
Im just wondering what the real reason is though cos the article didnt say.

I dont really follow his books but I have read that the kiss dating goodbye book was very influential amongst a certain subset of christians - white americian evangelical young men who attend bible colleges.

I haven't read it either, maybe we should, especially if it is influencing our young. I find it is good practice to be prepared for Always be prepared for our young ones questions. If you respond with questions it gives us the oppotunity to seek answers together

 

[pomeranian]

You mean according to the Old covenant that was against us because of the weakness of the flesh that JESUS nailed to the cross?

No actually my thoughts are of the 10 commandments that GOD wrote with his finger, GOD's Laws that Jesus reiterated quite clearly specifically don't commit adultery.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

No actually my thoughts are of the 10 commandments that GOD wrote with his finger, GOD's Laws that Jesus reiterated quite clearly specifically don't commit adultery.

yes the ten commandments are In the OLD covenant,,In the NEW covenant you might not commit adultery according to the flesh but GOD Is a SPIRIT and JESUS the WORD of GOD brought Grace and TRUTH and even If you don't commit adultery physically how would you do If a women walked by and you had a thought In your mind of committing adultery,would that be ok with GOD because you didn't commit physical adultery?

 

[Subhumanoidal]

No, no, actually I would make a case for human control; but I think we all know how far that would get.

That you missed the point is not surprising in the least.

 

[Lanolin]

I haven't read it either, maybe we should, especially if it is influencing our young. I find it is good practice to be prepared for Always be prepared for our young ones questions. If you respond with questions it gives us the oppotunity to seek answers together

The book was basically dont date anyone you are not going to marry. Which kind of put heaps of pressure on the one you are dating. And then it was that they going to call it courtship instead. It made up a lot of rules for this and then you ended up with young people sporting purity rings and asking the parents first and all that. Which is ok when you are just out of school I guess but not actually relevant for the rest of the population.
Also it presumed that everyone was just dying to get married or sleep with each other and to even go on a date meant that you were available. For young people it would be like take your parents as chaperones.

Joshuas experience was to give up dating so that he could concentrate on his studies which is fine thats what normal people would do anyway! You dont have to go out with anybody if you dont want to... but it kind of ignored the elephant in the room its actually possible to go on dates without dropping ones pants. If cant handle then save it till you older.

 

[PennEd]

Thank you for your respect.

You are right. 1 John 2:19 does not infer they were never saved. IT OUTRIGHT SAYS IT! No need for an inference. Now on to James:

James 5:19-20 King James Version (KJV)
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one CONVERT him; ( It doesn't say RECONVERT him. We are not born again, again, and again...)

20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

We all understand KNOWING the Truth, is far different than believing and receiving the Truth. Nowhere here does it say these guys were Christian.

Here is proof positive James is not necessarily addressing Christian brothers in 5:19-20.

Romans 9:1-5 New King James Version (NKJV)
Israel’s Rejection of Christ
9 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my BRETHREN, my [a]countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

Paul is saying that he would forfeit HIS Salvation if his BLOOD BROTHERS, the Jews, would only accept Christ. OBVIOUSLY these Jews are NOT Christian brothers.

James uses the EXACT same word (Adelphos) in talking about BROTHERS in chapter 5:19.

EVEN IF after all that, James IS talking about a brother in Christ, the brother who brings him back is merely the instrument the Lord uses to retrieve one of His lost sheep. Remember, Jesus said HE would leave the 99 UNTIL HE FINDS THE ONE SHEEP THAT WENT ASTRAY!


Look, I can go point by point, with the rest of what you have posted, but it is so much easier if you just ask yourself, is JESUS the One who keeps me saved, or am I the one who keeps me saved? If it's JESUS, then He WON'T fail. If it's YOU then you MUST fail.

Be Blessed brother.

 

[Adstar]

If you believe that once you are gifted with the Holy Spirit you are can never deny GOD;

I have never said this... Please simply deal with the things i have said.. Never put words into other peoples mouths, things that they never said..

you are also saying there is no such thing as the unforgivable sin which Jesus himself taught us is possible.

I have never said this during my time here at CC.. I believe blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin.. Once again stop putting words into my mouth that i have never said..

 

[Adstar]

So then the Incorruptible seed could become corrupt by the flesh,right?

What do you mean?

 

[pomeranian]

yes the ten commandments are In the OLD covenant,,In the NEW covenant you might not commit adultery according to the flesh but GOD Is a SPIRIT and JESUS the WORD of GOD brought Grace and TRUTH and even If you don't commit adultery physically how would you do If a women walked by and you had a thought In your mind of committing adultery,would that be ok with GOD because you didn't commit physical adultery?

When you say the 10 Commandments of GOD or the Laws of GOD are of the "OLD covenant" what exactly are you implying?
Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

 

[pomeranian]

The book was basically dont date anyone you are not going to marry. Which kind of put heaps of pressure on the one you are dating. And then it was that they going to call it courtship instead. It made up a lot of rules for this and then you ended up with young people sporting purity rings and asking the parents first and all that. Which is ok when you are just out of school I guess but not actually relevant for the rest of the population.
Also it presumed that everyone was just dying to get married or sleep with each other and to even go on a date meant that you were available. For young people it would be like take your parents as chaperones.

Joshuas experience was to give up dating so that he could concentrate on his studies which is fine thats what normal people would do anyway! You dont have to go out with anybody if you dont want to... but it kind of ignored the elephant in the room its actually possible to go on dates without dropping ones pants. If cant handle then save it till you older.

Thank-you loved the digest version, sounds like this young man has had trouble with his sexual desires for some time which is sad. Satan has a big bag of tricks thats for sure, anything that releases endorphines within the flesh giving us that very temporary feeling of peace and joy, Satan uses against us; sexuality, is one of the strongest tool in his bag. It's very sad that someone did not shine the light of the Holy Spirit on this child so that he could come to realize the Holy Spirit of GOD gives us a permanent peace and joy that temporary endorphines could never do.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

When you say the 10 Commandments of GOD or the Laws of GOD are of the "OLD covenant" what exactly are you implying?
Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

I asked,do you think because the law of GOD or the ten commandments that if you do not break HIS law by committing physical adultery that GOD would honor that?

because that would be you trying to relate with GOD on a physical level.
GOD IS a SPIRIT and those who worship HIM must worship In Spirit and In TRUTH.

 

[pomeranian]

I have never said this... Please simply deal with the things i have said.. Never put words into other peoples mouths, things that they never said..



I have never said this during my time here at CC.. I believe blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin.. Once again stop putting words into my mouth that i have never said..

Please forgive me, I am so sorry, I followed this thread back and you are correct, I have no idea why I put this response to your words "Never believed in OSAS.. People can and do cast away their salvation by coming to disbelieve in the Gospel... " it was not in any way meant for you.
I agree completely that Satan indeed works to separate GOD's children from him for as long as they are on this earth.
Thank-you for pointing this out.. I have to be more careful mistakes like this can cause unintentional strife and GOD knows we have enough strife without adding unintentional to it.... LOVE in Jesus

 

[Adstar]

Please forgive me, I am so sorry, I followed this thread back and you are correct, I have no idea why I put this response to your words "Never believed in OSAS.. People can and do cast away their salvation by coming to disbelieve in the Gospel... " it was not in any way meant for you.
I agree completely that Satan indeed works to separate GOD's children from him for as long as they are on this earth.
Thank-you for pointing this out.. I have to be more careful mistakes like this can cause unintentional strife and GOD knows we have enough strife without adding unintentional to it.... LOVE in Jesus

Thank you so much for responding in this way.. May you be blessed greatly by our LORD Jesus..

((((Pomeranian)))) hugs..

 

[pomeranian]

I asked,do you think because the law of GOD or the ten commandments that if you do not break HIS law by committing physical adultery that GOD would honor that?

because that would be you trying to relate with GOD on a physical level.
GOD IS a SPIRIT and those who worship HIM must worship In Spirit and In TRUTH.[/QUO

sexual immorality is sexual immorality; sin is fluid and relative; an example of what I mean by that is the sabbath is a different day for different religions... that's why Jesus had to clarify.
Matthew 22:36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”
The Holy Spirit shows us that anything and everything we do that would offend GOD or hurt our fellow man could be considered a sin. food for thought