When do we belong to GOD?

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TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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#21
"...ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise... unto/until the redemption of the purchased possession [G4047]" it says... and I pointed out "see Acts 20:28 also"... "the church of God, which He purchased [G4046] with His own blood." [speaking of "the Church which is His body"]. There is no real interval of time between "having believed" and "ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise..."
 
Jun 10, 2019
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#22
At birth, as the Catholic believe
When we recite the sinners prayer, A Protestant view I think
When we are baptised in water, I'm going out on a limb here because of their name... as believed by the Baptist faith
When we recieve the Holy Spirit, A gift from GOD...
Interesting question, when do we belong to God, well who makes the decision on the afterlife?

Ezekiel 8:4
Behold, every soul belongs to Me; both father and son are Mine. The soul who sins is the one who will die.
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
4,094
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#24
At birth, as the Catholic believe
When we recite the sinners prayer, A Protestant view I think
When we are baptised in water, I'm going out on a limb here because of their name... as believed by the Baptist faith
When we recieve the Holy Spirit, A gift from GOD...
Actually that is not accurate about baptists. In fact it seems to be a minority of believers that hold to the notion that baptism is a requirement of salvation.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#25
Hi 7seasrekeyed, It must have been wonderful to be introduced to our Savior at such a young age. I feel so sorry for this generation they have the worlds knowledge at their fingertips and yet most have no clue as to why they are even here. GOD has been an integral part of my life for as long as I can remember, even as a child I looked up for guidance and yes he has always been there protecting me. Within my studies of different cultures I've discovered that human beings at their very core feel a need for GOD from early childhood giving meaning to me that the breath of GOD gives us life and all Creation belongs to him. LOVE

I was brought to Sunday School and what the teacher said made sense to me. I was alone in the living room of my parent's house and I prayed and said 'God if you are real please do such and such' and immediately that prayer was answered...so I did what the Sunday School teacher said and 'asked Jesus into my heart'...a child's understanding

but I had a hunger to know God more even way back then...I would talk to God and believe it or not, He would show me things in my mind and later I would see them in my Bible...I had a child's Bible...so I agree with you about God being an integral part of my life just about forever ! :giggle:

the fact that God knows us as we are, deep deep inside where even we do not know ourselves sometimes, God knows us. this reassures me that I can bring anything at all to Him because He knows it anyway

He is our sure foundation and all that the Bible tells us He is
 
Jul 22, 2019
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#26
When?

" 13 in whom you also, having heard the word of truth, the gospel your of salvation, in whom also having believed you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance to [/unto] the redemption of the acquired/purchased possession [G4047 - peripoiēseōs], to the praise of His glory." - Ephesians 1:13-14 [the "acquired/purchased possession" referring to "the Church which is His body" (see also Acts 20:28)]
So all mankind before Christ's sacrifice did not belong to GOD? If not who did they belong to?

Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying,

“Worthy are you to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation,

Who were GOD's people imprisoned by that Jesus paid the ransom for our freedom?
 
Jul 22, 2019
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#27
Actually that is not accurate about baptists. In fact it seems to be a minority of believers that hold to the notion that baptism is a requirement of salvation.
Thank-you the more I learn about the different belief systems of Christianity the stronger my armor of GOD becomes, one needs to put on the whole armor of GOD to be equipped and ready LOVE in our Lord Jesus
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,923
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#28
So all mankind before Christ's sacrifice did not belong to GOD? If not who did they belong to?
Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are you to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation,
Who were GOD's people imprisoned by that Jesus paid the ransom for our freedom?
Thanks for asking. :)

I believe that the manuscript evidence shows the wording in Rev5:9 ( ^ ) to be saying "US" (except in the Alexandrian Codex which leaves it blank), distinct from verse 10 which has "them/they," and taking the following into consideration (below).

Not all saints of all times are designated "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [Eph1:20-23 WHEN] (though they are indeed all "saved").

Here's a post I had made awhile back regarding those specifically referred to in Rev5:9 :

[quoting]

Revelation 4-5 has the "24 elders" (wearing "crowns/stephanos" [see 2Tim4:8 "in that day"] and sitting on "24 thrones") are singing "antiphonal-ly" with the "4 living creatures" (and progressively adds more voices to the singing) [considering also the wording in the Greek, btw 5:9 and 5:10], so that in verse 9 the elders are saying "thou hast redeemed us out of every... nation". (So these are "redeemed" ppl present "in Heaven" before the opening of the First SEAL; just as 2Th2's SEQUENCE reveals to us [which also agrees with 1Th4-5's SAME SEQUENCE]--recall what I'd said about 2Th2:7b-8a "UNTIL out of the midst he be come [come to be]. AND THEN shall that Wicked be revealed" paralleling the Lam2:3-4 wording of "He hath drawn back His right hand from before the enemy" [effectively saying, "have at it!" or "let 'er rip!"--in a "judgment" context--see also Ps74:11, in vv.4-11]).


The "4 living creatures" I believe represent the "four-directional plotment" of Israel, in the following ways:

Judah - "Lion" banner - east - (Numbers 2:3; Numbers 10:14-17; etc)

Reuben - "[face of a] man" banner - south - (Numbers 2:10; Numbers 10:18-21; Num32:29; 1Chron5:18;12:37; Josh4:12-14; etc)

Ephraim - "ox/calf [/bull/bullock]" banner - west - (Numbers 2:18; Numbers 10:22-24; Jer31:18[/Deut33:17]; etc)

Dan - "eagle flying" banner - north - (Numbers 2:25; Numbers 10:25-28; etc)

[and see also...]

⦁ the Levites "in the midst" - (Numbers 2:17,33; Numbers 3:3-20,39,41,45; 4:5,15a; etc)


In chpt 6, we see the "4 living creatures" saying [individually] "Come! [and see]" at the opening of each of the first FOUR "SEALS": Rev6:1,3,5,7 (which are parallel to "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" of Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8/Lk21:8-11, with many MORE birth pangs that FOLLOW ON from there during the trib years).

[...]

Recall also that "we" ('the Church which is His body') are "ambassadors" here; "OUR citizenship" is not here, but "IS [exists] IN the HEAVENs"... and hasn't it been said that, when "war" is getting ready to be declared, the ambassadors are called home...

[end quoting]

____________

We see them seated on these "thrones" before the first seal is opened; when a "searching judgment" has already taken place (according to the "was found" phrase in 5:4 [the same way as used pertaining to Paul's trials in the latter parts of Acts, in several verses]); and when ppl are [all 3-->]: 1) "in heaven" [these "24 elders" included], 2) "and on the earth" [all those described as being on the earth in the chpts about to unfold], 3) "and under the earth" [those having died but not yet "resurrected" at this point in the chronology (both 1Cor15:23 and Rev20:6 show a SEQUENCE to this, meaning, there doesn't remain only ONE point-in-time for "resurrection")]; and as distinct from the 144,000 [of one nation] and the "a great multitude... of all the nations" (of Rev7) and from the martyrs "under the altar" at the Fifth Seal, as well as those beheaded/martyred in the second half of the trib (referred to in Rev20:4b), as well as distinct from OT saints who will be resurrected "at the end of the days [at the end of a very specific set of days/end of trib]" per Dan12:13, and distinct also from those in Dan12:12 who will be "BLESSED is he that waiteth and cometh to the 1335 days" [still-living saints (at the end of trib) who will enter the Mk age in mortal bodies capable of reproducing/bearing children], among about 9 or so other passages which refer to same [re: the "BLESSED"/entering the MK in mortal bodies]); etc...
 
Jul 22, 2019
189
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#29
Thanks for asking. :)

I believe that the manuscript evidence shows the wording in Rev5:9 ( ^ ) to be saying "US" (except in the Alexandrian Codex which leaves it blank), distinct from verse 10 which has "them/they," and taking the following into consideration (below).

Not all saints of all times are designated "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [Eph1:20-23 WHEN] (though they are indeed all "saved").

Here's a post I had made awhile back regarding those specifically referred to in Rev5:9 :

[quoting]

Revelation 4-5 has the "24 elders" (wearing "crowns/stephanos" [see 2Tim4:8 "in that day"] and sitting on "24 thrones") are singing "antiphonal-ly" with the "4 living creatures" (and progressively adds more voices to the singing) [considering also the wording in the Greek, btw 5:9 and 5:10], so that in verse 9 the elders are saying "thou hast redeemed us out of every... nation". (So these are "redeemed" ppl present "in Heaven" before the opening of the First SEAL; just as 2Th2's SEQUENCE reveals to us [which also agrees with 1Th4-5's SAME SEQUENCE]--recall what I'd said about 2Th2:7b-8a "UNTIL out of the midst he be come [come to be]. AND THEN shall that Wicked be revealed" paralleling the Lam2:3-4 wording of "He hath drawn back His right hand from before the enemy" [effectively saying, "have at it!" or "let 'er rip!"--in a "judgment" context--see also Ps74:11, in vv.4-11]).


The "4 living creatures" I believe represent the "four-directional plotment" of Israel, in the following ways:

Judah - "Lion" banner - east - (Numbers 2:3; Numbers 10:14-17; etc)

Reuben - "[face of a] man" banner - south - (Numbers 2:10; Numbers 10:18-21; Num32:29; 1Chron5:18;12:37; Josh4:12-14; etc)

Ephraim - "ox/calf [/bull/bullock]" banner - west - (Numbers 2:18; Numbers 10:22-24; Jer31:18[/Deut33:17]; etc)

Dan - "eagle flying" banner - north - (Numbers 2:25; Numbers 10:25-28; etc)

[and see also...]

⦁ the Levites "in the midst" - (Numbers 2:17,33; Numbers 3:3-20,39,41,45; 4:5,15a; etc)


In chpt 6, we see the "4 living creatures" saying [individually] "Come! [and see]" at the opening of each of the first FOUR "SEALS": Rev6:1,3,5,7 (which are parallel to "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" of Matt24:4-8/Mk13:5-8/Lk21:8-11, with many MORE birth pangs that FOLLOW ON from there during the trib years).

[...]

Recall also that "we" ('the Church which is His body') are "ambassadors" here; "OUR citizenship" is not here, but "IS [exists] IN the HEAVENs"... and hasn't it been said that, when "war" is getting ready to be declared, the ambassadors are called home...

[end quoting]

____________

We see them seated on these "thrones" before the first seal is opened; when a "searching judgment" has already taken place (according to the "was found" phrase in 5:4 [the same way as used pertaining to Paul's trials in the latter parts of Acts, in several verses]); and when ppl are [all 3-->]: 1) "in heaven" [these "24 elders" included], 2) "and on the earth" [all those described as being on the earth in the chpts about to unfold], 3) "and under the earth" [those having died but not yet "resurrected" at this point in the chronology (both 1Cor15:23 and Rev20:6 show a SEQUENCE to this, meaning, there doesn't remain only ONE point-in-time for "resurrection")]; and as distinct from the 144,000 [of one nation] and the "a great multitude... of all the nations" (of Rev7) and from the martyrs "under the altar" at the Fifth Seal, as well as those beheaded/martyred in the second half of the trib (referred to in Rev20:4b), as well as distinct from OT saints who will be resurrected "at the end of the days [at the end of a very specific set of days/end of trib]" per Dan12:13, and distinct also from those in Dan12:12 who will be "BLESSED is he that waiteth and cometh to the 1335 days" [still-living saints (at the end of trib) who will enter the Mk age in mortal bodies capable of reproducing/bearing children], among about 9 or so other passages which refer to same [re: the "BLESSED"/entering the MK in mortal bodies]); etc...
Wow, Wow, Wow: this reads like sterio instructions in a language I'm unfamiliar with!!!!
I'll put my thoughts out there and you tell me if that's what you said.
From the beginning we are all GOD's creation and all creation belongs to GOD. Satan caused mankind to sin which separated us from GOD. Jesus proved he could live among mankind and follow GOD's Laws all the days of his life so when he died without sin, Satan no longer could say to GOD "Nothing you create could live among man and not sin" So Jesus blood was the ransom paid to give mankind a path to being cleansed of the sin Satan brought to us and clean us so we could return to the presence of our Creator.
This belief is why I have difficulty with "the trinity" If Jesus was GOD, Satan would never have even attempted to tempt him to sin, even Satan knows it would not be possible for GOD in any form to sin.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,923
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#30
^ Well, consider the following passage:

1 Corinthians 2:6-13 -

6 But we speak wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to naught. 7 But we speak in a mystery, the wisdom of God having been hidden, which God foreordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age has understood. For if they had understood it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it has been written:
“What no eye has seen,
and no ear has heard,
and has not entered into heart of man,
what God has prepared for those loving Him.”
10 For God has revealed it to us through the Spirit.
For the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. 11 For who among men knows the things of the man, except the spirit of the man within him? So also, no one knows the things of God, except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit from God, that we may know the things having been granted to us by God, 13 which also we speak, not in words taught of human wisdom, but in those taught of the Spirit, communicating spiritual things by spiritual means.
 

Leastamongmany

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2019
3,270
1,269
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Usa
#31
Sister Pom,I believe we come to know God's great love for sinful man when we hear the word and the Spirit convicts us that we are sinners! For ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. When we see HIS LOVE,compared to our sins and repent ,and confess and follow after His ways then we have fellowship with Him! Blessings to you all!
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#32
All creation belongs to God but its just satan enslaves many of us. GOd chose a people to be his own and adopts many into his family to be with him forever. To be set free from Satan, we need to call out to Jesus.

So when do we belong, well i think all of us have eternity in our hearts but when we ask for the holy spirit we know we are sealed and have assurance we are saved for His purposes. When we believe in Jesus and receive the holy spirit we know God as our Father. Children belong to their Father only if they have this relationship.

Some are very fortunate to know this right from birth, others take time, or have doubts because the enemy tries to steal us away and keep us captive.