Faith is a work.
- Thread starter Beckworth
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Putting faith into action is a work, faith itself is a gift.
Faith is a conviction, a belief that the world is a particular way and God will respond to it
in specific actions and attitudes. One can see these things and still do nothing.
This would be passive faith, that has sight but no application.
Working faith, takes the knowledge of the situation and responds, and then sees things change.
Working faith always includes confession.
9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised
him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 19
Something changes in our hearts when we speak forth faith and put it into action.
If we could see the number of thoughts and options that go through the mind which lead to
nothing we would probably wonder who is truly in Christ and who is not.
The deception of the enemy is to say, it is enough to acknowledge God in your mind, without
anything outward, that is buying favour with God. So going to church, singing hymns, saying
the words in a book without faith or understanding, is enough.
I have sung hymns as an unbeliever and a believer, and the difference is my heart sings them
as a believer in praise and worship to the King of Kings. And I choose to sing them by myself,
in groups I desire to attend, to soak up the very heart of God and dwell in Him, Amen.
Praising God is great, praising God with faith is eternal.
Faith is a conviction, a belief that the world is a particular way and God will respond to it
in specific actions and attitudes. One can see these things and still do nothing.
This would be passive faith, that has sight but no application.
Working faith, takes the knowledge of the situation and responds, and then sees things change.
Working faith always includes confession.
9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised
him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 19
Something changes in our hearts when we speak forth faith and put it into action.
If we could see the number of thoughts and options that go through the mind which lead to
nothing we would probably wonder who is truly in Christ and who is not.
The deception of the enemy is to say, it is enough to acknowledge God in your mind, without
anything outward, that is buying favour with God. So going to church, singing hymns, saying
the words in a book without faith or understanding, is enough.
I have sung hymns as an unbeliever and a believer, and the difference is my heart sings them
as a believer in praise and worship to the King of Kings. And I choose to sing them by myself,
in groups I desire to attend, to soak up the very heart of God and dwell in Him, Amen.
Praising God is great, praising God with faith is eternal.
-
2
- Show all
If one reads Romans 2:6-10 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans then one might erroneously conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as you read and study these passages, it's critical to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved (and unsaved) conduct their lives. These works done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving eternal life.
So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal. *Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (verse 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. *Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (verse 9).
What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means of obtaining salvation, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not. These deeds done out of faith are the fruit, not the root of salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8,9 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly not what Paul said. *Also see (Romans 4:2-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).
What will the works of believers determine at the judgment seat of Christ? 1 Corinthians 3:11 - For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; (of reward) but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
If works for believers will determine rewards and loss of rewards at the judgment seat of Christ (1 Corinthians 3:13-15), then what will works determine for unbelievers at the great white throne judgment? (Revelation 20:11-15) In Matthew 23:14, we read - Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.
Yet the truth still remains: John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Faith is not merely a first step to obtaining salvation. We are saved by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) It's not about must have works in order to be saved but will have works if we truly are saved. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful.
Believers do not diminish the importance of works. We just put them in their proper place. Subsequent to obtaining salvation through faith -Ephesians 2:8-10. Works-salvationists put the cart before the horse and teach salvation by faith and works.
So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal. *Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (verse 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. *Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (verse 9).
What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means of obtaining salvation, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not. These deeds done out of faith are the fruit, not the root of salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8,9 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly not what Paul said. *Also see (Romans 4:2-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).
What will the works of believers determine at the judgment seat of Christ? 1 Corinthians 3:11 - For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; (of reward) but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
If works for believers will determine rewards and loss of rewards at the judgment seat of Christ (1 Corinthians 3:13-15), then what will works determine for unbelievers at the great white throne judgment? (Revelation 20:11-15) In Matthew 23:14, we read - Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.
Yet the truth still remains: John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Faith is not merely a first step to obtaining salvation. We are saved by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) It's not about must have works in order to be saved but will have works if we truly are saved. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful.
Believers do not diminish the importance of works. We just put them in their proper place. Subsequent to obtaining salvation through faith -Ephesians 2:8-10. Works-salvationists put the cart before the horse and teach salvation by faith and works.
-
2
- Show all
These many people did not place their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, but instead were trusting in their works to save them. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. (Matthew 7:23)
In regards to Matthew 7:21-23, (I will never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago while still attending the Roman Catholic church) I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, wow! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?" Such is the mindset of someone who believes that obtaining salvation is based on works.
Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
*John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
If these many people had a lot of faith on Him, then they would not have been looking to their works for salvation and Jesus would not have said, "I NEVER knew you." John 3:18 - He who believes on Him is not condemned.. These many people will be condemned. What does that tell you about their so called faith? These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their "attempted external obedience" (apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith and the blood of Christ) was stained with sin, so their righteousness amounted to filthy rags. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.
They lacked authentic faith because Jesus NEVER knew them. John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts.
*Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many "alleged" wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation based on works. This is why Jesus referred to these many people as "workers of iniquity." God does not see the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9) in unbelievers, but instead He see's all of their sins which remain and have not been washed away by the blood of Christ. Hence, "workers of iniquity."
In regards to Matthew 7:21-23, (I will never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago while still attending the Roman Catholic church) I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, wow! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?" Such is the mindset of someone who believes that obtaining salvation is based on works.
Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
*John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
If these many people had a lot of faith on Him, then they would not have been looking to their works for salvation and Jesus would not have said, "I NEVER knew you." John 3:18 - He who believes on Him is not condemned.. These many people will be condemned. What does that tell you about their so called faith? These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their "attempted external obedience" (apart from the righteousness of God which is by faith and the blood of Christ) was stained with sin, so their righteousness amounted to filthy rags. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.
They lacked authentic faith because Jesus NEVER knew them. John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people were not true converts.
*Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many "alleged" wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation based on works. This is why Jesus referred to these many people as "workers of iniquity." God does not see the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9) in unbelievers, but instead He see's all of their sins which remain and have not been washed away by the blood of Christ. Hence, "workers of iniquity."
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Amen! Paul said to "work out" your salvation and not "work for" your salvation. When we "work out" at the gym, we exercise to develop our body that we already have and not to get a body. Farmers "work" the land, not in order to get the land, but to develop the land they already have. The Greek verb rendered "work out" means "to continually work towards bringing something to completion or fruition." We do this by actively pursuing the process of ongoing sanctification.
-
2
- Show all
No the many in regard to faith was generated from their own selves and not Christs the mutual faith does works in all believers as a labor of His love.
for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose. Philippians 2:13
The bible inform us it is blasphemy to attribute the work of (generated from) Christ's faith in respect to oneself .It violates the first commandment.
for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose. Philippians 2:13
The bible inform us it is blasphemy to attribute the work of (generated from) Christ's faith in respect to oneself .It violates the first commandment.
10 For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.
11 It is written: "'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'"
12 So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
Rom 14
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
11 Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience.
2 Cor 5
36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgement for every careless word they have spoken.
37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."
Matt 12
Some believe believers will only have to face the judgement seat of Christ (bema) and not the final judgement.
But revelations says all face the judgement seat.
12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
Rev 20
15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire
Rev 20
These two verses imply all will be judged, though in Christ our repented sins have been washed away.
It is clear both believers and unbelievers are judged, because those not written in the book of life,
are thrown into the lake of fire. So obviously both are being judged else there is no need to reference
the book of life.
These folk are very scared and not sure where they really stand before the King. So they read quickly and
hope it will not contradict what they already know, which is truly a real fear we all carry. I know this fear,
and yet as I read and know more, the Lord lays more clearly His word and His intentions on my heart through
His word. In love if we walk in the Spirit there is now no condemnation for us in Christ Jesus.
Equally God sees us as we are as Paul says "What we are is plain to God"
It takes time to see the deluded and their fixations, jumping to conclusions before they know the word of
God in their hearts. As their hearts are hard, they are at the beginning anyway.
11 It is written: "'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'"
12 So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
Rom 14
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
11 Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience.
2 Cor 5
36 But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgement for every careless word they have spoken.
37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."
Matt 12
Some believe believers will only have to face the judgement seat of Christ (bema) and not the final judgement.
But revelations says all face the judgement seat.
12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
Rev 20
15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire
Rev 20
These two verses imply all will be judged, though in Christ our repented sins have been washed away.
It is clear both believers and unbelievers are judged, because those not written in the book of life,
are thrown into the lake of fire. So obviously both are being judged else there is no need to reference
the book of life.
These folk are very scared and not sure where they really stand before the King. So they read quickly and
hope it will not contradict what they already know, which is truly a real fear we all carry. I know this fear,
and yet as I read and know more, the Lord lays more clearly His word and His intentions on my heart through
His word. In love if we walk in the Spirit there is now no condemnation for us in Christ Jesus.
Equally God sees us as we are as Paul says "What we are is plain to God"
It takes time to see the deluded and their fixations, jumping to conclusions before they know the word of
God in their hearts. As their hearts are hard, they are at the beginning anyway.
Hi preston,
You made me think about what I regard EG & dc's position on things.
Gnostic ideas to me are heresy, and condemning believers disowns Christ.
If the tree is false, the rest is irrelevant. Jesus implied that He will curse such
trees as they do not have eternal fruit of the King and so will be destroyed.
Thankfully this is not in my hands or in my judgement, but in Gods hand and timing.
Some on cc can testify to coming out of such positions into love and freedom in
Christ, so I always hope that for everyone, but until the fruit appears, they are outsiders
looking in. God bless you
You made me think about what I regard EG & dc's position on things.
Gnostic ideas to me are heresy, and condemning believers disowns Christ.
If the tree is false, the rest is irrelevant. Jesus implied that He will curse such
trees as they do not have eternal fruit of the King and so will be destroyed.
Thankfully this is not in my hands or in my judgement, but in Gods hand and timing.
Some on cc can testify to coming out of such positions into love and freedom in
Christ, so I always hope that for everyone, but until the fruit appears, they are outsiders
looking in. God bless you
The concept of the Bema Seat comes from the ancient Olympics, where a judge would sit on the Bema Seat at the finish line. The judge's purpose was to determine what position the runners came in-first, second, and so on-and then to give out the appropriate rewards. That is the imagery behind what is known as the Bema Seat.
Also known as the Judgment Seat of Christ, the Bema Seat is described in 1 Corinthians 3:12-15, "If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames." Your gold, silver, and costly stones are works done for the glory of God, with the right motive, and in dependence upon the power of the Holy Spirit.
https://www.allaboutgod.com/bema-seat.htm
Also known as the Judgment Seat of Christ, the Bema Seat is described in 1 Corinthians 3:12-15, "If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames." Your gold, silver, and costly stones are works done for the glory of God, with the right motive, and in dependence upon the power of the Holy Spirit.
https://www.allaboutgod.com/bema-seat.htm
E
Look in 1 cor 3, where our works are judged, and we recieve gold silver precious stone wood hay straw.
The word judged there is in the greek BEMA.
Then look in rev, the great white throne judgment, Where EVERYONE who attends is cast into hell.
That word judged in this passage is in the greek “KRINO”