Why was not working on a certain day so important?

[garee]

Blik said: I would like to hear what you think of the Hebrew race. Why did the Lord create it? What relationship do they have to the gentiles? Do you think the OT is scripture and tells us anything of our God, or only tells of of a God to a few people who descend from Abraham? Do you think the covenants of the Lord has anything to do with gentiles?

I think the covenants of the Lord has nothing to do with the flesh of any nation. God is not served by human hands in any way shape or form. He can move a unbeliever to preach His word

He shows us that using a Ass (Balaam's) a unclean animal used to represent un-belief, un-redeemed mankind. According to the ceremonial law lamb must be slain to redeem it . A perfect picture of the gospel doing its work in mankind to both will and do His good pleasure. If any man has not the Spirit of Christ .They do not belong to Him

 

[garee]

The man was stoned for collecting sticks. The passages says nothing whatsoever about manna. You're making assumptions and assertions that are completely unsupported by the text.

The gospel has nothing to do with fasting. Fasting has nothing to do with gathering sticks.

The true fast is the gospel mana used to represent gospel food. The hidden food or manna of parables.

Gathering sticks has to do with cooking manna as part of the fast. It would seem someone did not pay attention to the cooking instructions... waiting to long.. Like Aarons sons adding strange fire. . . their own private tradition as a personal touch .

The stoning had to do with the fast . Not because he wanted to be warm or he took one step to many moving more muscles than necessary. .. The rest had to do with the fast a day set aside of doing the work of sharing ones food along with the preaching of the good news the hidden manna.

 

[TulafonoESefulu]

I just thought of a question as im doing study notes for Leviticus: WHY was the sabbath so important that you get stoned if you dont keep it?

I wonder about that cause a lot of the stuff in that chapter is about morality, the book of Levitiicus is actually one Jesus quotes the love thy neighbor from, yet its in the midst of: Stone em for not keeping sabbath.

Now I dont got nothing against a penalty like that obviously since its God mandated there

BUT my question is WHY is the penalty for not keeping the sabbath so severe? I dont get the importance of NOT WORKING on a certain day, what is the moral signifance?

It is transgression of one of the Ten Commandments (Ex. 20:8-11), the character of God (Ex. 33:12-23, 34:1-9, 20:5-7), and the wages of sin is death (Rom. 6:23), whether OT or NT. The death by stoning, is typical of the 2nd death by hail stones of fire in Rev. 20, see also, Psa. 18:12-13, same as in the type of destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, see also Psa. 21:9; Heb. 10:27.

 

[cv5]

That doesn't answer my questions at all. Ever since Adam "ate the apple" the entire world has been subject to the salvation offered to us through Christ. Do you think, perhaps, that what Christ did for us had no effect for 4,000 years, before Christ lived on earth with us? There was no salvation without blood, the blood of Christ. Grace and God go hand in hand.

Perhaps you are trying to read the OT without learning anything about the people God's ways are explained to us through. The dead sea scrolls has opened up understanding of those people who lived in a different time, God opened up a way for us to understand. There really is no excuse for not understanding the OT.

I am quite aware of where you are going with this. Maybe this will answer your question. Clinging to the Old Covenant economy is both a waste of time and error......

http://biblehub.net/search.php?q=FREEDOM+IN+CHRIST

Gal 5

"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery.

Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. All that matters is faith, expressed through love.

 

[dcontroversal]

The man was stoned for collecting sticks. The passages says nothing whatsoever about manna. You're making assumptions and assertions that are completely unsupported by the text.

The gospel has nothing to do with fasting. Fasting has nothing to do with gathering sticks.

AMEN......Stephen was the one being discussed.......an him being stoned had NOTHING to do with anything he stated.........

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I just thought of a question as im doing study notes for Leviticus: WHY was the sabbath so important that you get stoned if you dont keep it?

I wonder about that cause a lot of the stuff in that chapter is about morality, the book of Levitiicus is actually one Jesus quotes the love thy neighbor from, yet its in the midst of: Stone em for not keeping sabbath.

Now I dont got nothing against a penalty like that obviously since its God mandated there

BUT my question is WHY is the penalty for not keeping the sabbath so severe? I dont get the importance of NOT WORKING on a certain day, what is the moral signifance?

I believe it was called relying on God to supply your needs for that day, And also resting (your body needed that rest)

Failure to rely on God for that day signified you failed to trust God. I think God takes that seriously

 

[Yahshua]

I think the covenants of the Lord has nothing to do with the flesh of any nation.

Did you know that the covenant with Noah & his family = a covenant with every nation, since every nation was born from Noah's three sons after the flood?

Noahic Covenant

- reference: Genesis 9

- recipients: Noah and his descendants, and all living creatures (i.e. everyone)

- promise: never to destroy all life by flood; the fear of man on animals

- seal/token: rainbow

- length: everlasting; from generation to generation

- commandments: do not eat meat with blood in it, do not shed innocent blood

- consequence: your life will be required

Again, this is an everlasting covenant made with everybody long before the Hebrew people. This covenant was to be taught from nation to nation, generation to generation.

 

[garee]

AMEN......Stephen was the one being discussed.......an him being stoned had NOTHING to do with anything he stated.........

I would offer. One death was a righteous according to a law (no baking on the day of rest from the normal activities needed to sustain these bodies of death) .and the other, Stephens, not a righteous stoning. .

The context is the true fast not one of false humility to be seen of men.. A day set aside of doing the work of the of gospel. . . it drives out lying spirits as demons.. Sharing the gospel manna, the bread of humility baked the day before. It fulfills or the requirements of the parable (Isiah 58) that speaks of the power of the gospel from faith the unseen to the same... to feed both soul and body in a hope they will be clothed in the righteousness of Christ. . God working out all things according to the good purpose of his will that works in us strengthening us do perform His good pleasure.

The Jews wrestling against flesh against blood as fist of the wicked (un believers) made it about whoever ate the least meals on the sabbath. One person in the new testament said he fasted twice on the Sabbath in false humility. He was not heard on high.

Note... . . . red gospel metaphors

Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high. Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the Lord? Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the Lord shall be thy reward.Then shalt thou call, and the Lord shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noon day: And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.

A similar parable to come alone side the one in Isaiah is us used when John was in prison and had doubt wanting to confirm the gospel in respect to Chris. Jesus.

Jesus using metaphors again that speak of the duo work (full service gospel) feeding both the literally hungry and thirsty but with the kind of food and water the disciples knew not of. In their hunger for a righteousness not of themselves .The kind of food that makes demons as lying spirits flee.

Luke 7:22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.

I don't see someone getting stones for moving a muscle to have a fire side dinner with the manna baked the day before. . Perhaps some like it toasted. It tasted like honey ?

I wonder where that idea came from. . . it seems out of place?

 

[cv5]

Did you know that the covenant with Noah & his family = a covenant with every nation, since every nation was born from Noah's three sons after the flood?

Noahic Covenant

- reference: Genesis 9

- recipients: Noah and his descendants, and all living creatures (i.e. everyone)

- promise: never to destroy all life by flood; the fear of man on animals

- seal/token: rainbow

- length: everlasting; from generation to generation

- commandments: do not eat meat with blood in it, do not shed innocent blood

- consequence: your life will be required

Again, this is an everlasting covenant made with everybody long before the Hebrew people. This covenant was to be taught from nation to nation, generation to generation.

So you are arguing for the annulment of the New Covenant in favor of the Noachian?
That is exactly the opposite of what the book of Hebrews is saying.

 

[garee]

Did you know that the covenant with Noah & his family = a covenant with every nation, since every nation was born from Noah's three sons after the flood?

Noahic Covenant

- reference: Genesis 9

- recipients: Noah and his descendants, and all living creatures (i.e. everyone)

- promise: never to destroy all life by flood; the fear of man on animals

- seal/token: rainbow

- length: everlasting; from generation to generation

- commandments: do not eat meat with blood in it, do not shed innocent blood

- consequence: your life will be required

Again, this is an everlasting covenant made with everybody long before the Hebrew people. This covenant was to be taught from nation to nation, generation to generation.

A nation under God is whenever two or three or two, or three million gather together under the name of its leader. . . he is there as King of heaven .

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them

A family makes up a nation. Abraham was a Amorite and Sarah a Hittite.. Both enemies of the Jew. They started a new generation of people. Two become one. I am of the 57 variety..

Salvation has nothing to do with the corrupted flesh or mankind. Even Jesus said of His own flesh it profits for nothing...

 

[Yahshua]

So you are arguing for the annulment of the New Covenant in favor of the Noachian?
That is exactly the opposite of what the book of Hebrews is saying.

I love how folks intentionally setup strawmen when there's no opponent to fight.

"SO YOU'RE SAYING..."

Explain to me what I'm arguing? I'm a little unclear as to what I'm saying.

 

[Dino246]

The true fast is the gospel mana used to represent gospel food. The hidden food or manna of parables.

Gathering sticks has to do with cooking manna as part of the fast. It would seem someone did not pay attention to the cooking instructions... waiting to long.. Like Aarons sons adding strange fire. . . their own private tradition as a personal touch .

The stoning had to do with the fast . Not because he wanted to be warm or he took one step to many moving more muscles than necessary. .. The rest had to do with the fast a day set aside of doing the work of sharing ones food along with the preaching of the good news the hidden manna.

Ummm… no. Respectfully, you have your concepts completely mixed up.

One does not cook manna (food) during a fast (abstinence from food). The Israelites did not abstain from food on the Sabbath.

You are trying to connect unrelated passages. Isaiah 58 speaks of the true fast, which is acting consistently with the character of God. It has nothing to do with gathering sticks on the Sabbath.

Strange fire has nothing to do with gathering sticks, fasting, manna, the gospel, or anything else.

I would strongly encourage you to read through a text on Systematic Theology book so you get your ideas straight.

 

[Dino246]

Even Jesus said of His own flesh it profits for nothing...

No He did not. You misinterpreted that passage as well.

 

[Yahshua]

A nation under God is whenever two or three or two, or three million gather together under the name of its leader. . . he is there as King of heaven .

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them

A family makes up a nation. Abraham was a Amorite and Sarah a Hittite.. Both enemies of the Jew. They started a new generation of people. Two become one. I am of the 57 variety..

Salvation has nothing to do with the corrupted flesh or mankind. Even Jesus said of His own flesh it profits for nothing...

Well salvation has nothing to do with my comment either.

You said the covenants have nothing to do with the flesh of nations, I was sharing how one covenant specifically does.

I'm in agreement as to how families and new nations are made.

 

[garee]

No He did not. You misinterpreted that passage as well.

Did that offend you it seemed to offend some of the disciples.

How could that typified as sinful as flesh that was corrupted dying profit for something?What is the true interpretation .

Peter agreed he said Jesus had words that were spirit life giving (what we need) to quicken our soul. not dying flesh. Many walked away in unbelief. No faith that comes from words not from looking at flesh.

When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.John 6:61-69


No such thing as flesh of eternal life. or holiness of corrupted flesh

 

[garee]

Well salvation has nothing to do with my comment either.

You said the covenants have nothing to do with the flesh of nations, I was sharing how one covenant specifically does.

I'm in agreement as to how families and new nations are made.

I would say covenants use flesh to represent belief. . . . faith, or unbelief. . . . no faith. But never in respect to the flesh of one nation over another. We are warned using the apostles of thinking of men above that which is written.

The flesh of a Jew like other ceremonial laws used the clean to represent faith, and the unclean (a lamb)to represent, no faith or belief (a Ass) together to represent mankind as a whole. Its never been a Jewish religion. Just because he used their flesh temporally until the time of reformation. . But a source of faith (the unseen eternal) to the whole world. Coming from scripture alone. . . as it is written

 

[Sipsey]

Did that offend you it seemed to offend some of the disciples.

How could that typified as sinful as flesh that was corrupted dying profit for something?What is the true interpretation .

Peter agreed he said Jesus had words that were spirit life giving (what we need) to quicken our soul. not dying flesh. Many walked away in unbelief. No faith that comes from words not from looking at flesh.

When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.John 6:61-69


No such thing as flesh of eternal life. or holiness of corrupted flesh

Was the flesh of Jesus sinful?

 

[Dino246]

Did that offend you it seemed to offend some of the disciples.

How could that typified as sinful as flesh that was corrupted dying profit for something?What is the true interpretation .

Peter agreed he said Jesus had words that were spirit life giving (what we need) to quicken our soul. not dying flesh. Many walked away in unbelief. No faith that comes from words not from looking at flesh.

When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.John 6:61-69


No such thing as flesh of eternal life. or holiness of corrupted flesh

Did Jesus say, "My flesh profiteth nothing"?

No.

He said, "the flesh profiteth nothing." When you misquote the Scripture, it leads to false beliefs.

 

[Dino246]

I would say covenants use flesh to represent belief. . . . faith, or unbelief. . . . no faith. But never in respect to the flesh of one nation over another. We are warned using the apostles of thinking of men above that which is written.

The flesh of a Jew like other ceremonial laws used the clean to represent faith, and the unclean (a lamb)to represent, no faith or belief (a Ass) together to represent mankind as a whole. Its never been a Jewish religion. Just because he used their flesh temporally until the time of reformation. . But a source of faith (the unseen eternal) to the whole world. Coming from scripture alone. . . as it is written

What makes you think a lamb is unclean? Scripture didn't say so. In fact, Scripture calls lambs "clean". Swine are called "unclean".

 

[Blik]

"Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future Sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the Sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses."

Absolutely correct IMO.

If we looked for how people lived to discover God's will for us we would b in deep trouble.