Once saved always saved? Or is salvation conditional on believing and following God's Word?

[dcontroversal]

So john said we can know. But actually meant we can not know for sure??

wow!! lol.. Where do these people come up with this stuff?

You remember that island and that one dude yelling...."Da Plane, Da Plane" ........yep...same island....

 

[dcontroversal]

Before God delivered me from works salvation I often listened to that false teacher try to manipulate the scriptures.

And then you met the Marine HAHHAHAHHAHA

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes!

They're "prescription" is to take 2 good works and call call God in the morning.

Problem is, God gives them the SAME answer every morning. " Those works are filthy rags, and horrible stench in my Nose, what else ya got for me?"

I just two two Tylenol and three Ibuprophen for a tooth that I got pulled 2 hours ago and I probably won't call you in the morning HAHAH

 

[FollowHisSteps]

poked fun?
tell that to your grandmother
nothing is funny about telling people they have to work for salvation as you do
some posts back you said you were judging whether or not people were worshipping God properly...according to you
God police much?

You have reminded me well that when we write a few sentences, the emphasis we as writers put on it
can be quite different to how readers read it. So different meanings can be drawn.

Single point steps is probably safest. I must practice this.
I am not telling people to work for their salvation, faith that is alive creates affects, changes in the
believer which are seen and demonstrated, which I call working faith, faith that has an effect, it
works, it changes things, it is alive, it creates life, it is God in a believer, it is Christ changing, transforming
us into His likeness.

I do not judge peoples worship, rather I say we should not judge the work of God in believers and run
it down. I was praising seeing Gods works in a believers life, seeing His blessing and fruit showing their
faith is alive and well. This is about encouragement, not condemnation.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I believe in repentance too. Don't we all, all who are His?

It isn't loyalty to ppl that spured my comment, it is loyalty to my Lord, in His work. I am so grateful. You see, I can be as self centered and self absorbed as anyone, probably more. I am so thankful for His humbling. I need it. I have learned to kiss the waves that bring me to the rock of ages...Spurgeon. I just find His work in me, what He created for us to be, belongs to Him.

I am simple and to be honest don't think I understand what you are pointing to. Why does giving Him all the Glory, why does leaning in and on His promises rather than on our abilities oppose obedience? I believe pointing to Him in all ways does just that. I believe the labor comes when we think we have it all figured out.

Obedience starts with the Great I am, believing and trusting in His power and authority alone. I agree He wants our Love and devotion. He died for it and continues to drive us home.

I am going to walk away now because I think we are repeating ourselves to the point of wasting time. I do not have bad feelings for you. I am not sure I understand what your point is. It seems like so much of this is semantics. If I wanted to please the masses, I'd be much less civil, haha...jk.

Why should we esteem man when the breath of them is in their nostrils. < not sure which verse...job...?

Regardless what anyone thinks of me, My Lord will always be Jesus/Yeshua.

I pray we all seek and find His revealing,

Thank you Charli, this helps.

I begin to understand how theological differences could fade away to some, and we are all rejoicing together.
It is why redefining words like repentance to just changing ones mind does matter, and how sorrow for sin
by some is condemned as unbelief.

And you are right, in Christ and His love, we are all in His grace and forgiveness, Amen.
And in this we rejoice. God bless you

 

[CherieR]

I get slightly confused here.
The 4 spiritual laws are a simple campus crusade way of presenting the gospel.

Now if someone rejects this as the gospel, and says changing your mind and believing in Jesus with passive
faith is the gospel things have gone sideways for me.

This is like night and day. For someone who does street evangelism, open airs this is like bread and butter faith.
Gnosticism, an eternal perfect spirit that instantly comes when you come to faith, that can never be lost,
with a sinful flesh that will never be purified or holy is not conservative faith, more like "Free Grace" theology.

And put simply I will defend repentance and faith till I die.

So loyalties here are not openly declared or seen, along with wild accusations of who knows Christ and who
does not. But whatever, Praise the Lord, Amen

Please define what you mean when you say passive faith. What is that?

 

[Grandpa]

Hi Grandpa,

What you miss is some fundamentals.
The sheep of Christ listen to his voice, they know Him and follow Him.

So many claim to know Jesus yet openly disobey and refuse to either open their hearts to Him,
or repent of sin or resolve major issues in their life yet claim to be eternally saved.

They have not yet given their lives to Christ and started walking, they are outside still arguing
the cost and saying it is too much. So plucking them out of His hand has not even begun.

And a believer can walk away, and many do. It is strange how some claim this is not the case.
But then it does not matter. Often those who argue about this have hard hearts and love still
has to break in beyond their shell of theology and security.

Once love has "broken" beyond the "shell" of theology and security does it break back out and leave the individual whom love has "broken" in on stranded and without God in the world? Or, can the individual physically shove this Love out by a force of their will?

Can a person who knows the Lord say "Yeah, He was a good guy for a little while, but then I found this better stuff that was more interesting and blessed me even more than Christ did"?

A believer can't walk away. Once you believe something you can't unbelieve. Once the vail is taken from the mind a person can't put it back on by their own will.

If you think something MIGHT be possible then you can later think its NOT possible. But that's not belief. That's intellectual philosophy.

But once you know something you can't un-know it.

Like gravity. Can you make yourself stop believing in gravity? No. You've already tasted gravity and seen that it is true.


Not sure why you can't see this, honestly. It seems self-evident.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Once love has "broken" beyond the "shell" of theology and security does it break back out and leave the individual whom love has "broken" in on stranded and without God in the world? Or, can the individual physically shove this Love out by a force of their will?

Can a person who knows the Lord say "Yeah, He was a good guy for a little while, but then I found this better stuff that was more interesting and blessed me even more than Christ did"?

A believer can't walk away. Once you believe something you can't unbelieve. Once the vail is taken from the mind a person can't put it back on by their own will.

If you think something MIGHT be possible then you can later think its NOT possible. But that's not belief. That's intellectual philosophy.

But once you know something you can't un-know it.

Like gravity. Can you make yourself stop believing in gravity? No. You've already tasted gravity and seen that it is true.


Not sure why you can't see this, honestly. It seems self-evident.

My concern has never been can people lose anything, rather have they anything to lose. Making faith easy fills churches but does not affect the kingdom. Unbelievers telling me I do not know Jesus or love is a classic example of this foolishness, or nut cases who think they command God's authority. Osas is just a smoke screen for church membership. And if I challenge about sin I am a worker for, fake church 101. Love for many a nice to have

 

[Grandpa]

My concern has never been can people lose anything, rather have they anything to lose. Making faith easy fills churches but does not affect the kingdom. Unbelievers telling me I do not know Jesus or love is a classic example of this foolishness, or nut cases who think they command God's authority. Osas is just a smoke screen for church membership. And if I challenge about sin I am a worker for, fake church 101. Love for many a nice to have

That has been the conversation from the start. Can people lose their Salvation.

That is what ONCE SAVED always Saved means.

The ONCE SAVED part is critical.


If you are concerned that people haven't been saved to begin with then by all means state what it is you think it takes to be saved and show that people are or are not doing it.

But if you think no one is saved then all your words really apply to you and not to people who are ACTUALLY saved, right?

That will be a tricky one for you to see, I think.

 

[UnderGrace]

fyi.... the OP will not be responding.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

That has been the conversation from the start. Can people lose their Salvation.
That is what ONCE SAVED always Saved means.
The ONCE SAVED part is critical.
If you are concerned that people haven't been saved to begin with then by all means state what it is you think it takes to be saved and show that people are or are not doing it.
But if you think no one is saved then all your words really apply to you and not to people who are ACTUALLY saved, right?
That will be a tricky one for you to see, I think.

Hi Grandpa,

You know what I appreciate about you, is you are thinking how I might look at something.
Now that is a nice change.
I start from a different place than some. I start from me and Jesus.
I know Jesus and He knows me. I know His word, it dwells in my heart and I let it change me,
make me and mould me.

So when I come and share the wonder and beauty Jesus is to me, it is this not theology or labels
I care about. When I am called derogatory names, or some wish to convert me, or say I need to listen
to this teacher or go this way, I just listen to Jesus.

So I wonder when some say my love is hate, that I have contempt, or I am self righteous, or whatever
bad term they might use. I have found many have hard hearts and spout theology, ideas that attempt
to resolve issues of guilt, sin, and redefine words like repent, rest, faith, purity, holiness, walking in Christ.

I doubt any who talk like this really know Jesus at all, or take Him seriously. Some suppose He was
sarcastic saying we should love our enemies. Some claim love God with everything we are is impossible
or loving our neighbour as ourselves. But praise the Lord this is not mine to resolve.

So I know my security in Christ, I know the cross, I know the walk. I also hear the desperation that
I am not moving or changing, that I stand and they do not. It is driving them mad.
God bless you, may you find peace and love in His ways and know His will working in you day by day

 

[7seasrekeyed]

You have reminded me well that when we write a few sentences, the emphasis we as writers put on it
can be quite different to how readers read it. So different meanings can be drawn.

Single point steps is probably safest. I must practice this.
I am not telling people to work for their salvation, faith that is alive creates affects, changes in the
believer which are seen and demonstrated, which I call working faith, faith that has an effect, it
works, it changes things, it is alive, it creates life, it is God in a believer, it is Christ changing, transforming
us into His likeness.

I do not judge peoples worship, rather I say we should not judge the work of God in believers and run
it down. I was praising seeing Gods works in a believers life, seeing His blessing and fruit showing their
faith is alive and well. This is about encouragement, not condemnation.

huh

lost your audience so now you are talking to yourself

do you think I have hit my head between my first post to you and the one before this one?

the corner you painted yourself into does not leave much room for negotiation

you are holding yourself hostage

let me put it in a plain brown wrapper

I'm not buying this either

 

[Grandpa]

Hi Grandpa,

You know what I appreciate about you, is you are thinking how I might look at something.
Now that is a nice change.
I start from a different place than some. I start from me and Jesus.
I know Jesus and He knows me. I know His word, it dwells in my heart and I let it change me,
make me and mould me.

So when I come and share the wonder and beauty Jesus is to me, it is this not theology or labels
I care about. When I am called derogatory names, or some wish to convert me, or say I need to listen
to this teacher or go this way, I just listen to Jesus.

So I wonder when some say my love is hate, that I have contempt, or I am self righteous, or whatever
bad term they might use. I have found many have hard hearts and spout theology, ideas that attempt
to resolve issues of guilt, sin, and redefine words like repent, rest, faith, purity, holiness, walking in Christ.

I doubt any who talk like this really know Jesus at all, or take Him seriously. Some suppose He was
sarcastic saying we should love our enemies. Some claim love God with everything we are is impossible
or loving our neighbour as ourselves. But praise the Lord this is not mine to resolve.

So I know my security in Christ, I know the cross, I know the walk. I also hear the desperation that
I am not moving or changing, that I stand and they do not. It is driving them mad.
God bless you, may you find peace and love in His ways and know His will working in you day by day

We're kind of weird, don't you think?

We just assume that the experiences we have had with the Lord are the same experiences that everyone must have had as well.

I assume that people come to the Lord because they have found they cannot be Righteous through their own work. So they need help.

But it doesn't appear that is how everyone has come to the Lord. Some people still think that it is their own work that makes them Righteous before the Lord. That they must work to be righteous because there is no other way. And even though they know they fall a little short they keep trying and trying knowing that the Lord forgives them for their falling short.

I don't understand this second way. But I do have to say it seems very popular. People seem to really understand it and get behind it. I know I liked it when I was thinking this way. I understood it. You reap what you sow. And everyone says Amen.

I guess He loves us even though we are dumb. Thankfully. Do you consider yourself fairly dumb before the Lord? I know I do. I assumed everything wrong and had to be taught everything like a little child. If He wouldn't have intervened in my life there was no way I was piecing it together. Even though I had read the bible from cover to cover at least 7 times. I just couldn't grasp it until the Lord revealed it to me. Then it was so obvious that I felt even dumber. How come I couldn't understand these simple concepts?

Because the bible tells us they are hidden. They are only revealed in Christ.

Matthew 7:7-8
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

We're kind of weird, don't you think?

We just assume that the experiences we have had with the Lord are the same experiences that everyone must have had as well.

I assume that people come to the Lord because they have found they cannot be Righteous through their own work. So they need help.

But it doesn't appear that is how everyone has come to the Lord. Some people still think that it is their own work that makes them Righteous before the Lord. That they must work to be righteous because there is no other way. And even though they know they fall a little short they keep trying and trying knowing that the Lord forgives them for their falling short.

I don't understand this second way. But I do have to say it seems very popular. People seem to really understand it and get behind it. I know I liked it when I was thinking this way. I understood it. You reap what you sow. And everyone says Amen.

I guess He loves us even though we are dumb. Thankfully. Do you consider yourself fairly dumb before the Lord? I know I do. I assumed everything wrong and had to be taught everything like a little child. If He wouldn't have intervened in my life there was no way I was piecing it together. Even though I had read the bible from cover to cover at least 7 times. I just couldn't grasp it until the Lord revealed it to me. Then it was so obvious that I felt even dumber. How come I couldn't understand these simple concepts?

Because the bible tells us they are hidden. They are only revealed in Christ.

Matthew 7:7-8
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

I agree whole heartedly.

Amen

We are servants, and can but bow to the King, knowing His way is the way of life.
I used to think things were complicated, until now I realise I was the complex one, not Him.
God bless you

 

[FollowHisSteps]

huh
lost your audience so now you are talking to yourself
do you think I have hit my head between my first post to you and the one before this one?
the corner you painted yourself into does not leave much room for negotiation
you are holding yourself hostage
let me put it in a plain brown wrapper
I'm not buying this either

Hi 7,

Do not know quite what is your issue.
As a child you tried to be perfect and failed. You blamed the 4 spiritual laws.
We have Christ as our Lord, and in love he shared the path of life.

Are you saying you do not walk the path, and Christ is not your Lord?
As a believer this is your testimony. But are you now denying these two things,
or have you a different story.

Certainly I touched a nerve, and you went boom.
So much so, you want attention, you want to declare how bad I am, and how
wounded and hurt you are.

You can say I am not your brother, I am some evil deceiver peddling poison, except
that is actually just rejecting Jesus and His word. Which do you really want?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

well I was too young for that but I know of it through someone trying to save me even though I was already a believer

I pointed to the wrong picture...as a kid...and voila...I was going to hell.

man I was confused for days! thankfully God straightened me out...in my heart...by His Spirit

I understand you so much better now



I was a kid and didn't really understand this picture and I pointed to it

if a person is a believer, God will have the proper place in their heart even if it takes years

I wonder how many self righteously pointed to the 'right' picture and God saw them pass up an opportunity to actually get it right?

when I look back, I can see my 'interests' being directed by Christ whether I knew it or not

you guys are just so mixed up and so legalistic and judgemental

you are making little yous and not followers of Christ

I have reread this.
Interestingly on this forum many have been saying I am with self on the throne and need converting.
Like yourself, I was slightly confused, and these guys are trying to make me like themselves, even
suggesting I am like them many years ago.

Interestingly vco used these very diagrams to talk about his faith and how central it is to have Jesus
at the centre of their life.

It is easy to miss-understand one another, and be sure you know them and who they are and what
they are saying, while missing their heart.

So I smile at you combative approach, I know it well, and meet it many times.
I am not legalistic or judgemental, but you are judging me by these very words.

EG as an individual loves to condemn me at every turn, God bless him. So I laugh at his attitude,
as if faith that produces fruit is not the will of God.

12 These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm--shepherds
who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees,
without fruit and uprooted--twice dead.
Jude 1

17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate,
submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere.
James 3

10 And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in
every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
Col 10

16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit--fruit that will last.
Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.
John 15

8 This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
John 15

43 "Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a
people who will produce its fruit.
Matt 21

The fruit Jesus is talking about

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Gal 5

Amen.

 

[OneOfHis]

Are you saying you do not walk the path, and Christ is not your Lord?
As a believer this is your testimony. But are you now denying these two things,
or have you a different story.

Certainly I touched a nerve, and you went boom.
So much so, you want attention, you want to declare how bad I am, and how
wounded and hurt you are.

You can say I am not your brother, I am some evil deceiver peddling poison, except
that is actually just rejecting Jesus and His word. Which do you really want?

^The sort of double tounged talk that exposes you.


Care to admit your previous CC account names?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Emotions

It is funny, how if one is upset you tend not to read some things.
It takes time to read posts here and to take in various exchanges.
Often the subjects are highly charged and relate to past incidents in life and past people
met who take this position or that.

So much heart, so much feeling, so much fight. Amen and God bless you

 

[FollowHisSteps]

^The sort of double tounged talk that exposes you.
Care to admit your previous CC account names?

I am sorry young man, you analyse too much. I wish things were as polarised as you would like
them to be, it would be sooooo much easier, but it is not.

I remember talking to one member who thought I crafted everything so well, but actually I just
write, I have no clue how it comes across other than how I intend it on writing. So we each have
our style.

Accounts? What are you after? Is it somehow you think there is some deep deception going on?
I do see this a lot from various groups, as if the subjects discussed are not enough, it must be
something else. The illuminati are out there, it is all a conspiracy ........ arrrrrrrr

 

[OneOfHis]

I am sorry young man, you analyse too much. I wish things were as polarised as you would like
them to be, it would be sooooo much easier, but it is not.

I remember talking to one member who thought I crafted everything so well, but actually I just
write, I have no clue how it comes across other than how I intend it on writing. So we each have
our style.

Accounts? What are you after? Is it somehow you think there is some deep deception going on?
I do see this a lot from various groups, as if the subjects discussed are not enough, it must be
something else. The illuminati are out there, it is all a conspiracy ........ arrrrrrrr

Care to admit the old usernames you used to post under on CC?

If I start posting quotes I am sure more people will see why you hide behind a new mask.

You are right. This is a bible discussion forum.
Or is it a propoganda forum with an acceptable view or you are deceived.
I have proposed that there are different interpretations of scripture, to then be told I was wrong.
Or if I use the word sin, and say specifically how it is used, to then be told I am wrong and not applying
it rightly, or some other idea.

You can say I am not your brother, I am some evil deceiver peddling poison, except
that is actually just rejecting Jesus and His word. Which do you really want?

Double talk.




(his two previous banned accounts I strongly suspect are PeterJens and LightLoveHope respectively... both of which have the same writing style and false works based doctrine, though the accusations and double talk became more subtle with each banned account)