When does the marriage supper of the lamb happen? Before, During, or after Great Tribulation?

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Jan 12, 2019
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#41
When does the marriage supper of the lamb happen?
Before, During, or after Great
Tribulation?
If you read Revelations 19, it will be during the Tribulation

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Because after that, in verse 14, it is stated that the bride will accompany Jesus back to Earth for the Jews.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Notice the terms fine linen, white and clean appear in both passages? So my belief is that the marriage supper of the Lamb will take place just before the end of the Tribulation.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#42
This is a question that has "ALWAYS" bothered me and "NEVER" made sense. How can it be that the supper is before or even during the Tribulation when all "hell" is breaking loose the church is celebrating a marriage supper.
Hi Bluto!

Why would it not make sense for the wedding of the Lamb to be taking place while the tribulation is taking place? Does not the entire universe and creation run by the word of God?

In the chronological order of Revelation, the wedding of the Lamb takes place in heaven during the tribulation period and prior to the Lord's return to the earth, as revealed in Rev.19:6-8

========================
"Hallelujah!

For our Lord God, the Almighty, reigns. Let us rejoice and be glad and give Him the glory. For the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His bride has made herself ready. Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.”
=========================

Following that, in Revelation 19:14, we see the armies of heaven riding on white horses following the Lord out of heaven to the earth to end the age. The fact that those armies are said to be wearing the same fine linen, white and clean that the bride/church received in Rev.19:8 demonstrates that the armies is the bride/church and the wedding of the Lamb is taking place in heaven prior to the Lord's return to the earth.

It just does not make any sense. Also notice that this event is explained at Revelation 19:7-10. Now look at Revelation 20:4-5 which is the tribulation period and it says at vs5, "The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. "THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION."
First of all, the verse is not stating that those who come to life at the end of the thousand years as being the first resurrection. It is those who John saw as beheaded who come to life and reign with Christ during that thousand years. In support of this, if those who were beheaded come to life and rule with Christ during the thousand years, how can they possibly be resurrected at the end of the thousand years? The problem is with the translation. The context demonstrates that they were beheaded during the tribulation because of their testimony about Jesus and the word of God and because they would not worship the beast, his image nor receive his mark. These are the great tribulation saints. Based on the context, the following is the correct translation:

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"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years."
==============================================================

Since those who were beheaded are those who will resurrect and rule with Christ during that thousand years, then the first resurrection must be referring to them and not to those who come to life at the end of the thousand years. The rest of the dead who come to life at the end of the thousand years is enclosed in parenthesis, which means that the first resurrection is referring to those referred to prior to the parenthesis, i.e. those who were beheaded and who kept the testimony of Christ. In further support of this, those who are resurrected at the end of the thousand years are identified as the unrighteous dead in Revelation 20:11-15, which is why they cannot and will be worthy to take part in the first resurrection. Also, those who are resurrected at the end of the thousand years are those who the second death will have power over, which is the lake of fire.

In addition, the term "first resurrection" dose not mean "only resurrection." The misunderstanding of this term is a common mistake made by many expositors. The "first resurrection" could be better understood as any of the resurrections which takes place prior to the one at the end of the thousand years as stages/phases of the first resurrection. Below is a list of the stages of the first resurrection:

Resurrection of the righteous:

* Jesus the first fruits (I Cor. 15:23)

* The Church at the Lord's appearing (John 14:1-3, I Cor.15:51-53, I Thess.4:13-17)

* The male child/144,000 (changed and caught up in Rev.12:5)

* The two witnesses (Rev.11:11)

* The great tribulation saints (Rev.20:4-6)

All of the above resurrections take place at different times, but all are apart of the first resurrection. Those who resurrect at the end of the thousand years, do not take part in the first resurrection, but the second death has power over them:

=================================================
Resurrection of the unrighteous dead:

"Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."
================================================

This is why I'm a post-tribulationist. Btw, this is only one reason and I could give you a dozen more why there is no so-called rapture and in fact the word "rapture" does not appear in the Bible, there is only one second coming. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
The word "rapture" comes from the Latin "raptus" meaning to "carry off." "While it is true that the word "rapture" does not appear in the Bible, the Greek word "harpazo" does, which is translated as "caught up." Below is the definition of harpazo:

===================================
Strong's Concordance
harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away
Original Word: ἁρπάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: harpazó
Phonetic Spelling: (har-pad'-zo)
Definition: to seize, catch up, snatch away
Usage: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery.

HELPS Word-studies
726
harpázō – properly, seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively – like someone seizing bounty (spoil, a prize); to take by an open display of force
====================================

"After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord."

You are correct in that there is only one "second coming." However, it is important to understand that the gathering of the church is a separate event from the Lord's return to end the age. When the church is gathered, the Lord does not return to the earth, but appears in the atmosphere and calls up the dead and the living believers. Where the second coming is when Christ visually and physically returns to the earth to end the age, with the church following behind Him on white horses.

Another major problem with the post tribulation belief, is that the Lord returns to the earth to end the age after the tribulation period, that is, after God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments is completed, which would put the living church through the entire wrath of God, which we are not appointed to suffer. By the time the Lord returns to the earth the majority of the population will have been decimated and all human government dismantled, which is supported by when Jesus said "If those days (of tribulation) had not be shorten, no one would be saved."

The Lord is not going to build His church and then put it through the same wrath that the wicked will experience.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#43
Hi Bluto!

Why would it not make sense for the wedding of the Lamb to be taking place while the tribulation is taking place? Does not the entire universe and creation run by the word of God?
I think the main objection from some critics, is that they think its unfair that, people who might be saved during the Tribulation, are not part of it.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#44
Well absolutely, I had a chance to read all your post in this thread so I want to address some of your points. First of all, on what basis do you think Psalm 23:5 refers to the Lambs feast or supper after the "so-called" rapture?

It's obvious to me you did not read the context of Psalm 23. At vs1 David is praising God because he/David shall not want. In other words, God provided for David and God also provides for His children. The verse you quoted which is vs5 expresses the idea that in spite of our enemies God still provides. It also shows to our enemies God is on our side. And when David said in the last sentence of vs5, "My cup overflows." This means his cup even spills over with Gods abundance.
Hi Bluto,

"You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows."

Psalms 23:5 has nothing to do with the wedding of the Lamb or the feast. To prepare a table before king David's enemies would refer to his enemies here on earth, which is most likely not referring to a literal table, but is figurative.

Now I have a couple of question (for starters) for an old hand like you that knows his Bible. This is what 1 John 2:18, "Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist (singular) is coming, even now many antichrist have arisen; from this we know it is the last hour."

So, if the pre-trib rapture is true, why does the Apostle John (who is a very smart apostle btw) telling the Christians to expect the antichrist if the Chritians are going to be raptured before he comes? Matthew 24:15 backs this up if you care to read it and the following verses is what Jesus says we ought to do during this time.
Here is the actual scripture:

"Little children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen, whereby we know that it is the last hour."

According to the scripture above, the antichrist, as an individual person, is coming. During John's time many types of antichrist's had been revealed (those denying Jesus as being the Messiah), but not "the antichrist." Also, John was not telling Christians to expect the antichrist, but that he was coming. We have other scriptures that reveal that Christians will not be here to see the antichrist.

Second question? This is what 2 Thessalonians 1:4-12 says but I am only going to quote vs5-6. "This is a plane indication of God's righteous judgment so that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering. Vs6-7 "For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, vs7, and to give "RELIEF/REST" to you who are afflicted "WHEN DO WE GET REST OR RELIEF?" the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire."
Below is the full scripture:

"After all, it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7and to grant relief to you who are oppressed and to us as well, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels 8in blazing fire."

If you will notice in the scripture above and which you sited, Paul includes himself and those with him as those receiving relief. Therefore, since Paul and those Christians with him have long since died and gone and the Lord has yet to be revealed, then the relief that Paul was speaking of does not rule out a pretribulation gathering. It is important to take the context of the entire scripture into consideration. Therefore, the relief that Paul is speaking about, will be when the Lord returns to the earth and punishes all those wicked who were responsible for all Christians' affliction's and deaths throughout the entire church age.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#45
I think the main objection from some critics, is that they think its unfair that, people who might be saved during the Tribulation, are not part of it.
I'm not quite understanding what you are saying. Those who are saved after the gathering of the church and during the tribulation, are indeed apart of it. To be clear, those who come to Christ (the great tribulation saints) will be exposed to all that is going to be taking place on upon the earth to the very end. They are not protected! Scripture even demonstrates that they will have been exposed to God's wrath, as well as the beasts reign.

Jesus and the apostles warn all continually to be ready and watching for the Lord's appearing, living a faithful life so that when He does come he will remove us from the earth prior to God's wrath. Those who become believers after the church is gathered will be exposed to the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. In fact regarding them, Rev.13 states that the beast will be given power to make war and to conquer them during the last 3 1/2 years, with many of them being killed.

Anyone who doesn't believe that they will be exposed to God's wrath only needs to do a study on the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. No where in the narrative is it stated that the great tribulation saints are protected from those plagues.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#46
Scripture says after Christ returns after Tribulation three events will happen:
The dead will be caught up 1st, then everyone alive 2nd, and then He will His angels to gather the elect saints.
——
These things happen only after Tribulation.
The "first resurrection" is not just one event, but has phases or stages to it. The first resurrection was initiated by the Lord as the first fruits of the first resurrection, next will be the church, then male child/144,000, the two witnesses and then the great tribulation saints. The first resurrection could be better understood as all resurrections taking place prior to the resurrection which takes place at the end of the thousand years, which is a resurrection of the unrighteous dead.

Those of the first resurrection of which you mention above, is not the church, but the great tribulation saints who are also apart of the first resurrection. Those that the angels gather will be those who will have made alive through the entire tribulation from both the righteous and the wicked. The righteous will enter into the millennial kingdom along with the remnant of Israel. And those wicked who make it through alive will be killed by the double-edged sword which proceeds from the Lord's mouth, which is figurative representing the word of God.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#47
I'm not quite understanding what you are saying. Those who are saved after the gathering of the church and during the tribulation, are indeed apart of it. To be clear, those who come to Christ (the great tribulation saints) will be exposed to all that is going to be taking place on upon the earth to the very end. They are not protected! Scripture even demonstrates that they will have been exposed to God's wrath, as well as the beasts reign.

Jesus and the apostles warn all continually to be ready and watching for the Lord's appearing, living a faithful life so that when He does come he will remove us from the earth prior to God's wrath. Those who become believers after the church is gathered will be exposed to the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. In fact regarding them, Rev.13 states that the beast will be given power to make war and to conquer them during the last 3 1/2 years, with many of them being killed.

Anyone who doesn't believe that they will be exposed to God's wrath only needs to do a study on the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. No where in the narrative is it stated that the great tribulation saints are protected from those plagues.
Thus, to these critics, they may prefer the Marriage supper to be held after the 2nd coming of Jesus, so that everyone, Jew and Gentile who are saved, either during now, the age of grace, or during the Tribulation, can have an opportunity to be included.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#48
All praises to Ahayah Bahasham Yashaya Wa Raach!
——
Seems to me that those who believe in pre or mid rapture have the same thinking and they really stand by it but it just doesn’t add up.
As I demonstrated in a previous post, the problem with the post-tribulation belief, is that it would put the living church through the entire wrath of God, which scripture states that we are not appointed to suffer and that Jesus said He would keep us out of:

"They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath." (1 Thess.1:10)

"But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thess.5:9)

"Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!" (Rom.5:9)

"Because you have kept the word of My patient endurance, I also will keep you out of the hour of the trial being about to come upon the whole inhabited world, to try those dwelling upon the earth. "

As believers in Christ, we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath (any wrath) because Jesus already suffered it on behalf of every believer. Therefore, the wrath of God no longer rests upon the believer, but does still rest upon the unbeliever.

Therefore, since God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments must be completed prior to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, then the church can not be gathered at that time, because it would put the church through the entire wrath of God.

In order to come to a right conclusion regarding end-time events, it is important to consider all related scripture. With just the information that I just provided, a pretribulation gathering of the church does add up.

The Lord is not going to send his church through the same wrath that the wicked will suffer. Consider Lot, even though it was just him, his wife and daughters, God delayed His wrath until Lot and his family were safe, then he poured out His wrath. God does not punish the righteous with the wicked. Since God's wrath will be upon the entire earth, then the Lord will appear and remove the church prior to first seal being opened, which initiates God's wrath.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
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#49
Please note that the bottomless pit is opened at Trumpet-5 and that "the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit" kills the two witnesses at the END of the three-and-one-half year period that is the time-span of their prophecy.

What does this tell you?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#50
Thus, to these critics, they may prefer the Marriage supper to be held after the 2nd coming of Jesus, so that everyone, Jew and Gentile who are saved, either during now, the age of grace, or during the Tribulation, can have an opportunity to be included.
Well, all that I know about that is what scripture states. Rev.19:6-8 which describes the wedding of the Lamb to the bride/church, shows the wedding to be taking place in heaven. Then in Rev.19:14 we see the bride following Christ out of heaven riding on white horses, ergo, in order follow Christ out of heaven, they would have to already be in heaven. Then there is the following:

"And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and will recline with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens."
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#51
Please note that the bottomless pit is opened at Trumpet-5 and that "the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit" kills the two witnesses at the END of the three-and-one-half year period that is the time-span of their prophecy.

What does this tell you?
Greetings GaryA,

I agree that the Abyss is opened at the fifth trumpet releasing those demonic beings and their king, the angel/beast of the Abyss. However, are you sure that the time of their prophecy is from the middle of the seven to the end? The reason why I am bring this up is because, if the two witnesses prophesy during that last 3 1/2 years, Israel would not be there to hear it and that because Matt.24:15-22 and Rev.12:6,14 has Israel fleeing out into the wilderness where God will care for them during that last 3 1/2 years.

Another reason is that, since we know that the angel/beast comes up out of the Abyss at the 5th trumpet which takes place just prior to the middle of the seven years, then the beast would have to wait 3 1/2 years before he could kill the two witnesses.

Because of these reasons and a couple of others, I believe that the two witnesses will prophesy in the streets of Jerusalem during the first 3 1/2 years when Israel will be there and will be killed in the middle of the seven years at the time of the end of their prophecy, which will end just after the beast comes up out of the Abyss.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#52
[Re: Post #19] So you are equating "the Bride/Wife [singular]" with the following:
"the guests [plural]," the "10 [or 5] Virgins [plural]," the "servants [plural; (of that future specific time period)]"??


IOW, you believe Jesus [the 'Bridegroom'] is MARRYING "10 [or even 5] Virgins"??
The following is regarding whoever posted the following:

[Re: Post #19] So you are equating "the Bride/Wife [singular]" with the following:
"the guests [plural]," the "10 [or 5] Virgins [plural]," the "servants [plural; (of that future specific time period)]"??
"The Bride" is singular used as a collective name representing all believers of the church. In the same way "Legion" is a collective singular name representing approximately 6000 demons. The word "church" is used as a singular collective name to represent all believers belonging to the church. In addition, the Sanhedrin is a singular collective name representing 70 religious leaders. Therefore, your attempt to use singular vs. plural as an example to prove your point doesn't hold water.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#53
We walk by faith the eternal not seen... not after the corrupted flesh the temporal

One thing for sure is it not a literal outward sign. The last sign as a wonderment or source of faith to look ahead was that of Jonas. .

The Son of man fulfilled that in his one time appearing during the one time demonstration. 2 Corinthians 5:16 informs us . When he left even though some did know him after the flesh. By which he resisted worship in respect to the things seen his flesh. To make sure they are not looking for another outward demonstration (God is not a man as us). We do not know him after the flesh for ever more.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Jesus says it a evil generation natural unconverted man that does seek after sign and wonder.... none is given .

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

The first thing to notice is that the sign of the Son of man shall appear "to lighten, shine, appear”. it is an indication of what to expect from the sign.

It seems to read that the sign is in heaven and some translations actually put the sign in Heaven when it is the Son of man who speaks to us (who are on earth) from Heaven. The sign is a personal confirmation of the Son who is in Heaven speaking to us. He is not a man as us..

For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both. Job 9:33

Jesus as the Son of man refused to stand in the holy unseen place of the Father as the verse says.. .Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both. (the abomination of desecration) God alone not seen is good.


 
Mar 28, 2016
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#54
Scripture says after Christ returns after Tribulation three events will happen:
The dead will be caught up 1st, then everyone alive 2nd, and then He will His angels to gather the elect saints.
——
These things happen only after Tribulation.
Yes the end of the world . The last day.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#55
Yes the end of the world . The last day.
Just go ahead and throw out either 1 thes 4,or rev 14.
Either the dead rise FIRST or they don't
Either you or Jesus is wrong
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#56
We walk by faith the eternal not seen... not after the corrupted flesh the temporal

One thing for sure is it not a literal outward sign. The last sign as a wonderment or source of faith to look ahead was that of Jonas. .

The Son of man fulfilled that in his one time appearing during the one time demonstration. 2 Corinthians 5:16 informs us . When he left even though some did know him after the flesh. By which he resisted worship in respect to the things seen his flesh. To make sure they are not looking for another outward demonstration (God is not a man as us). We do not know him after the flesh for ever more.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Jesus says it a evil generation natural unconverted man that does seek after sign and wonder.... none is given .

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

The first thing to notice is that the sign of the Son of man shall appear "to lighten, shine, appear”. it is an indication of what to expect from the sign.

It seems to read that the sign is in heaven and some translations actually put the sign in Heaven when it is the Son of man who speaks to us (who are on earth) from Heaven. The sign is a personal confirmation of the Son who is in Heaven speaking to us. He is not a man as us..

For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both. Job 9:33

Jesus as the Son of man refused to stand in the holy unseen place of the Father as the verse says.. .Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both. (the abomination of desecration) God alone not seen is good.


Uh,no.
Or else he screwed up when he came to paul and when he PHYSICALLY was standing on parmos
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#57
The following is regarding whoever posted the following:



"The Bride" is singular used as a collective name representing all believers of the church. In the same way "Legion" is a collective singular name representing approximately 6000 demons. The word "church" is used as a singular collective name to represent all believers belonging to the church. In addition, the Sanhedrin is a singular collective name representing 70 religious leaders. Therefore, your attempt to use singular vs. plural as an example to prove your point doesn't hold water.
The church contains to bride.
The church is not the bride.
Mat 25
The carnal are shut out.
God is a God of purpose.
The bible says with noah "the door was shut"
Mat 25....the same thing. Only the wise go to the marriage chamber.
The gt is the winnowing fork.
That is mercy.
The gt culls out those excluded.
Again the door is shut.
The bible says ALL TAKE THE MARK.
Rev 14 has 144k either martyred or raptured alive( 1st fruit jews) then the ones you claim are trib saints,jews or whatever..
It even says " blessed are those that die in the lord at this time"
And; "angels preach the gospel"
...because no christians are on the earth.
Rev 14 is the 4th part of the 4 part harvest.

It is poor exegesis to think all the references to "1st fruits" somehow has no connection to the other 3 parts of "harvest".
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#58
Uh,no.

Or else he screwed up when he came to paul and when he PHYSICALLY was standing on parmos
I would offer.. In the end of the matter it does not matter where the Son of man stands. We have no power according to the corrupted flesh .

Jesus said...of his own it profits for nothing, zip, nada. . No fleshly God. The one time "demonstration" of the unseen work of the father pouring out His Spirit on corrupted flesh of the Son of man is over., fulfilling the promise (Isaiah 53 ) of the Dynamic duo .(the father and the Son working as one God )

God is not a man as us. Even when Jesus stood right in front of the Apostles they would treat him as if he was not there so they could play the fleshly Alfa male game .Who is the greatest.

We who walk by faith the unseen eternal and do not know God after the flesh rather than the Spirit alone.

The one time demonstration of the actual work as the lamb of God "slain from the foundation of the world" Not from the standpoint of the demonstration.

If any man denies that. . . then they have neither the father nor the Son. Can't have one without the other . Two working together in perfect harmony and submission to one another .God is One ( Not seen).

He remains supernatural not a man as us natural. Without beginning without mother and father(DNA) beginning of Spirit life or end thereof

The elect that heed the information in so much we are commanded (not suggested) to not to know God after the flesh (2 Corinthian 5:16)

He it would seem would not speak from one side of his mouth saying use your eyes as a way of seeing the Son of man, and then say if any say lo there is he . . . we are believe not . then it becomes lets se the ID and take a DNA test .We do not know Christ after the rudiments of this world .(Clay)

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Walk by faith the unseen Holy Place of our father in heaven .Christ will come as thief in the night on the last day .

Mark 13:20-22 King James Version (KJV)
And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and "shall shew signs and wonders", to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

Matthew 24:22-24 King James Version (KJV) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.


If it were possible in those two verses simply mean the elect walk by faith the unseen eternal . They have no hope in signs and wonders gospel. The last given was the sign of Jonas .It was fulfilled with the demonstration of the Son of Man Jesus. He did the will of his father no seen .. . . the food the disciples at first knew not of.

I think in that way we are moved by the Spirit working in us. The mystery of faith .. To not look for another demonstration. Christ will come as a thief in the night just as with Noah . we have the provide to watch but the day, year hour (time) is not revealed.. Nothing is needed he could come in the twinkling of the eye .Watch out by faith our living hope. All that was needed to be fulfilled ...Christ finished it. He is not served by human hands as a will

Just as the believers were moved by the faith of Christ working in them moving them to both will and do His good pleasure when they did look to the demonstration and other not having that mutual faith died.

Numbers 21:7-9 King James Version (KJV)Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord, and against thee; pray unto the Lord, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

No being moved by the Spirit to look no living.

It also give as it seems a greater light to the gospel in John 3:16. Telling how he loved the whole world and not just in respect to one nation but all. Lifting them up to new born again life .Their first love in knowing Christ hearing his word and believing as his Spirit turn us toward Him and witnesses to our new spirits.

I think we can compare the meaning of one parables to another.

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.John 3: 14- 16
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
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#59
The church contains to bride.
The church is not the bride.
Mat 25
The carnal are shut out.
God is a God of purpose.
The bible says with noah "the door was shut"
Mat 25....the same thing. Only the wise go to the marriage chamber.
The gt is the winnowing fork.
That is mercy.
The gt culls out those excluded.
Again the door is shut.
The bible says ALL TAKE THE MARK.
Rev 14 has 144k either martyred or raptured alive( 1st fruit jews) then the ones you claim are trib saints,jews or whatever..
It even says " blessed are those that die in the lord at this time"
And; "angels preach the gospel"
...because no christians are on the earth.
Rev 14 is the 4th part of the 4 part harvest.

It is poor exegesis to think all the references to "1st fruits" somehow has no connection to the other 3 parts of "harvest".
Hmmmmm ? Are the carnal Jews shut out? The Mark of the Jew?

First fruits refers to God's first born. The Son of God our High Priest continually .(Hebrews7) He has no beginning or end of Spirit life.
And not the Son of man Jesus clothed in corrupted carnal flesh. Which he says profits for nothing.

Not in respect to the corrupted flesh. . . it is carrying out the life sentence as the wrath of God revealed from heaven. He poured it out on His Son strengthening Him to finish it . Two working as one to form the government of God, two are needed.

Loving authority plus willing submissive. . . works as one. No Lone Ranger in His goverment.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
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#60
"The Bride" is singular used as a collective name representing all believers of the church. In the same way "Legion" is a collective singular name representing approximately 6000 demons. The word "church" is used as a singular collective name to represent all believers belonging to the church. In addition, the Sanhedrin is a singular collective name representing 70 religious leaders. Therefore, your attempt to use singular vs. plural as an example to prove your point doesn't hold water.
Fine, I'm just pointing out one aspect... At the point of Rev19, "the MARRIAGE" is already complete/already having taken place in Heaven (aorist); however, "the marriage FEAST/SUPPER" has not (it is what will happen NEXT in the chronology), and the only thing "aorist" about it, is the "INVITATION of the guests" all throughout the 7-yr trib on the earth, that has been unfolding. The next scene / item in the chronology, is (note the word "RETURN" [which refers to, "to the earth"]: "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 [and its parallels]).

The "MARRIAGE" (pertaining to the "BRIDE/WIFE" and IN HEAVEN and now already-completed at Rev19) is distinct from "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" (pertaining to "the INVITED guests" and not yet having taken place [ONLY the "INVITATION" has been completed (during trib yrs unfolding on the earth and consisting of Matt24:14[26:13] and Matt22:8-14, etc [and Mt25:40] BY the believing remnant of Israel [having come to faith WITHIN the trib yrs], and the 144,000, etc)]. IOW, the wedding feast/celebration Jesus and His mother and His disciples [et al] attended at Cana was not the "union/marriage" of the couple being wed, but the public celebration/festivities of the ALREADY-WED[/-unioned] couple, which in itself is a very PRIVATE EVENT involving only the couple and not many else besides (I've heard these two things are held a week apart, but I cannot recall the source, or whether it is even factual, but I think one verse the writer used [for that point] was the Gen29:27,28 verse saying "fulfill her week [G7620]"--this is the private, intimate part [involving only the couple, not the guests of the "festivities" which is the later thing, and AT which, it is the responsibility of the "bridegroom" to provide the "wine" for his own "wedding FEAST/SUPPER," per what we read in Jn2:9-10 (and what Jesus said to His mother in v.4--this wasn't HIS OWN wedding feast/supper/celebration they were all attending)]).

I'm saying, that the "wedding feast/supper" parables (and the "G347 shall sit down [around a table/at a meal]" thing) is the next thing in the chronology after the "RETURN" [to the earth] taking place in Rev19, and that none of those [passages] depict the "bride" (though indeed "returning" WITH/UNIONED-WITH [G4862]" the Bridegroom! FOR the festivities/feast/supper [the earthly MK and/or its inauguration]).