Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,915
817
113
Do you have to talk about Judaism on a Christian forum.
Judaism is a codification of the traditions of the pharisees that made the commands of Yah of none effect.

You haven't read me promoting Judaism from any of my post on here in 5 years. And you never will.

True Christianity, the faith once delivered to the saints, is obedience to the law of Yah and having the faith of Christ. Both elements, not just one.

And both are mentioned in the last book of scripture that the saints must patiently endure to keep until our king returns.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,915
817
113
you misinterpreted my questioning 'who actually says we should sin all the more because grace abounds, except the false accuser?'
you thought it was all about you, forgetting the Word.
so i quoted Revelation 12 where Satan is called the accuser of the brethren. to remind you.
then you said '
just like i said, your heart is your only accuser'
by doing so you made it out as tho Revelation 12 is saying my heart = Satan.


do you honestly need me to go find links to the post??
i can't sit here all day. i'm blessed to have some time atm while my wife sleeps.
Sure. And be sure to quote me exactly.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
Is this a question or an accusation? I can't be sure since the rules keep changing from your posts to mine, then back to yours.

The word "congratulations" would suggest it's a conclusion you've reached instead of posting a pure interrogative that you seek my answer to, but i can't be sure. The rule is in constant flux.

I suspect the rule again will be the opposite of what I've assumed it to mean this next go around, as intended.



Nevermind us in here. Look around you. Look at the Christian world as a whole. Who's NOT saying that right now to themselves is a better question.

That's the slippery slope we must fight against by correcting misunderstandings in scripture & teachings like in the letters Paul has written.

it's the reason why we have christians who are practicing homosexuals today with no guilt, and why other Christians are regularly engaging in fornication, backbiting, etc, but will think nothing of it while praising god on Sunday. No conviction.

It's why there's no growth in righteousness but a stready, measurable degeneration of the Christian community which now looks no different than the secular world. Look at the fruit of this Christian generation today. Do you think we've grown more in righteousness in nearly 2000 years or less?

if the current position "that we're to do away with the law and let Christ do the work and put no effort in ourselves" is the prevailing thought of the Christian community then Christ isn't doing a good job. Thus the position is not an accurate thought, as scripture and the letters prove.

This is what happens when there is no standard taught to generations upon generations of new believers. This is the result when the law or the "OT" is taught to be irrelevant, or when we threaten folks with damnation (i.e. "you're rejecting Christ") for studying or trying to obey the scriptures.

We teach Christian's to "love your neighbor" without any instructions on how to properly do that. Nevermind it being only the 2nd greatest commandment; no one even attempts the address the greatest one. No when asked how to love Yah the answer is "because he first loved us".

They're taught "the Spirit will convict" "dont judge" but not taught how to test the spirits to make sure they're hearing the right one...so in the end most christians end up worst off than when they started in the faith, because one person's spirit is saying something completely different than another person's spirit...yet both are claiming to possess the same Holy Spirit.

it's confusion.



I can tell you he is. I can tell you he's not, but as with other answers whether you believe me or not is a different matter. In this context he's referring other false teachers who would make such a claim.

I encourage you to learn about Hebrew idioms and figures of speeches the patriarchs of the faith used so you can properly navigate through what Paul is saying from one text to the next, especially if you hope to follow Paul properly.

With all this said, if no one here has accused you, and yet you feel accused, it's not anyone here accusing you but your heart.
BIG FAT GOOSEBUMPS
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
the Spirit is a mediator:

He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
(John 16:14)
where in Exodus does it say the Holy Spirit was being offered to indwell the children of Israel?
i think you're making that part up.
When God speaks to man he does so through the Holy Spirit.

If you are saying you cannot see the correlation between Egypt Israel Sinai and the giving of the law to Israel with Sin the sinner and the giving of the Holy Spirit to the redeemed (writing of the law upon our hearts) then I think you are being deliberately obtuse.

At this point the facts are laid out to see and either embrace or reject. Choose Life!
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
With all I have written and explained? Did I not just say that the Mosaic Law does not exist and therefore you can not be under it?
If the 613 Mitzvot laws do not exist, then you have no reason to talk about the Mosaic Law.

Please do not bother me anymore.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Judaism is a codification of the traditions of the pharisees that made the commands of Yah of none effect.

You haven't read me promoting Judaism from any of my post on here in 5 years. And you never will.

True Christianity, the faith once delivered to the saints, is obedience to the law of Yah and having the faith of Christ. Both elements, not just one.

And both are mentioned in the last book of scripture that the saints must patiently endure to keep until our king returns.
More nonsense.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
The only people I know who are obsessed with the law are Jews.
I'll go one further and say I don't even know of a Jew who is obsessed with the law. I do know that my best friends parents all through high school were survivors of the concentration camps tattoos, fingernails and all. Spent much of my life at that time with them. I found them to be the nicest, (and super intelligent, but I was in high school but they did work in physics), peaceful, grateful and gracious people I have ever met. I don't remember them ever pushing or questioning me or observing any obsession. If they were, they must have been doing it with their hearts because their fruit was all you would expect someone who loves the LORD and whom the LORD loves back. Love, peace, charity, meekness, ect they embodied.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,915
817
113
More nonsense.
Is there a law for "washing hands before eating" in the Law?

The pharisees accused Christ of not washing hands before eating.

It's surely a law in Judaism - they have a special cup for it and everything - but can you find it anywhere in the "OT"?

Be sure before determining what I say is nonsense.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
When God speaks to man he does so through the Holy Spirit.

If you are saying you cannot see the correlation between Egypt Israel Sinai and the giving of the law to Israel with Sin the sinner and the giving of the Holy Spirit to the redeemed (writing of the law upon our hearts) then I think you are being deliberately obtuse.

At this point the facts are laid out to see and either embrace or reject. Choose Life!
Choose life

While there is a correlations between the two. It is not as you think.

Life can not be given by the law. It can not even show us what true life looks like.

IT CONDEMNS, then it SHOWS WHAT MUST BE DONE TO REDEEM THE CONDEMNED.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
1 Timothy 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
1 Timothy 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
1 Timothy 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
1 Timothy 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,135
29,452
113
With all I have written and explained? Did I not just say that the Mosaic Law does not exist and therefore you can not be under it?
If you did, I missed it. I did wonder which law/s you referred to, to say we should heed the law, law, law, with emphasis on the OT. It seems you are saying it is impossible to separate the keeping of faith from the law. However, your style of breaking into soliloquy somewhat befuddles whatever point you are trying to make.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. And what does the Word of God contain? Law. Law is found in the old, in the new, in the prophets, in the psalms, It is everywhere. Shoot, it is inside us. I am thinking we should heed what we are told to heed. But people will scream Nooooooooooooooooooo, you can't do that. How will your heart and soul ever be able to distinguish between a gift and a work if you do? My God are you mad??? If you are living in faith, how will you not lose your faith if you keep using the laws given you for guidance to get to holy????? That can't be done. But I tell you here today, the wisdom and knowledge you receive from the hearing of the Word makes all that not just possible but renders it impossible to separate them. I know sounds to far fetched to keep the Word and the Living Word as ONE.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

1 Timothy 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare
1 Timothy 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck
1 Timothy 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.


1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
1 Timothy 4:11 These things command and teach.
1 Timothy 4:12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
1 Timothy 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.


1 Timothy 5:9 Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man.

1 Timothy 5:10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

1 Timothy 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.


1 Timothy 5:24 Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment and some men they follow after.
1 Timothy 5:25 Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.


1 Timothy 6:2 And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1 Timothy 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1 Timothy 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness from such withdraw thyself.



1 Timothy 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1 Timothy 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1 Timothy 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession
1 Timothy 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ
1 Timothy 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords
1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto whom no man hath seen, nor can see to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.


1 Timothy 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
1 Timothy 6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
1 Timothy 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1 Timothy 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
1 Timothy 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
1 Timothy 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
1 Timothy 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
1 Timothy 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully
These verses apply to you quite well..
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,833
13,558
113
When God speaks to man he does so through the Holy Spirit.

If you are saying you cannot see the correlation between Egypt Israel Sinai and the giving of the law to Israel with Sin the sinner and the giving of the Holy Spirit to the redeemed (writing of the law upon our hearts) then I think you are being deliberately obtuse.
i am saying i am not aware that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit was promised at Sinai but the people 'lost the opportunity' because they asked for a mediator, being fearful of God.

i don't know how to be more clear than that.

that's what you said took place:

Sinai was a failure in that the people did not receive the Holy Spirit, They took it exclusively through a mediator/Moses.
i think you're making it up because i don't see that anywhere in scripture. but if you know where scripture says that, please tell me

Moses spoke in Numbers how he had wished the people of Israel had "received The Holy Spirit";

Num 11:29 NIV But Moses replied, "Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD's people were prophets and that the LORD would put his Spirit on them!"
However, two men, whose names were Eldad and Medad, had remained in the camp. They were listed among the elders, but did not go out to the tent. Yet the Spirit also rested on them, and they prophesied in the camp. A young man ran and told Moses, “Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp.”
Joshua son of Nun, who had been Moses’ aide since youth, spoke up and said, “Moses, my lord, stop them!”
But Moses replied, “Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the Lord’s people were prophets and that the Lord would put His Spirit on them!” Then Moses and the elders of Israel returned to the camp.
(Numbers 11:26-30)

this does not say 'Sinai was a failure' like you said. it does not say the Spirit would have indwelt everyone if only they had not feared God at the mountain. it in fact refutes your premise, which was that the people did not receive the Holy Spirit because they listened to God through a mediator ((even tho the Spirit Himself is a mediator, John 16:13-15)). here are two men who heard God through Moses just like the rest of Israel, and the Spirit of prophecy was on them nonetheless.

did you forget that Paul said the same thing to the Corinthians? 1 Corinthians 14:5 ?
then was the cross similarly a failure?

did you forget that our Lord enfleshed is Himself is a mediator?

For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus
(1 Timothy 2:5)

Hebrews 8:6 ? Hebrews 9:15 ? Hebrews 12:24 ?

has God then failed because He spoke to us through His Son?
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
744
113
Is this a question or an accusation? I can't be sure since the rules keep changing from your posts to mine, then back to yours.

The word "congratulations" would suggest it's a conclusion you've reached instead of posting a pure interrogative that you seek my answer to, but i can't be sure. The rule is in constant flux.

I suspect the rule again will be the opposite of what I've assumed it to mean this next go around, as intended.



Nevermind us in here. Look around you. Look at the Christian world as a whole. Who's NOT saying that right now to themselves is a better question.

That's the slippery slope we must fight against by correcting misunderstandings in scripture & teachings like in the letters Paul has written.

it's the reason why we have christians who are practicing homosexuals today with no guilt, and why other Christians are regularly engaging in fornication, backbiting, etc, but will think nothing of it while praising god on Sunday. No conviction.

It's why there's no growth in righteousness but a stready, measurable degeneration of the Christian community which now looks no different than the secular world. Look at the fruit of this Christian generation today. Do you think we've grown more in righteousness in nearly 2000 years or less?

if the current position "that we're to do away with the law and let Christ do the work and put no effort in ourselves" is the prevailing thought of the Christian community then Christ isn't doing a good job. Thus the position is not an accurate thought, as scripture and the letters prove.

This is what happens when there is no standard taught to generations upon generations of new believers. This is the result when the law or the "OT" is taught to be irrelevant, or when we threaten folks with damnation (i.e. "you're rejecting Christ") for studying or trying to obey the scriptures.

We teach Christian's to "love your neighbor" without any instructions on how to properly do that. Nevermind it being only the 2nd greatest commandment; no one even attempts the address the greatest one. No when asked how to love Yah the answer is "because he first loved us".

They're taught "the Spirit will convict" "dont judge" but not taught how to test the spirits to make sure they're hearing the right one...so in the end most christians end up worst off than when they started in the faith, because one person's spirit is saying something completely different than another person's spirit...yet both are claiming to possess the same Holy Spirit.

it's confusion.



I can tell you he is. I can tell you he's not, but as with other answers whether you believe me or not is a different matter. In this context he's referring other false teachers who would make such a claim.

I encourage you to learn about Hebrew idioms and figures of speeches the patriarchs of the faith used so you can properly navigate through what Paul is saying from one text to the next, especially if you hope to follow Paul properly.

With all this said, if no one here has accused you, and yet you feel accused, it's not anyone here accusing you but your heart.

Greetings Y,


Too often I note a sense that there is a lack of soundness underpinning many of the arguments we hear. This seems to be drifting into darker and darker recesses of obscure thought.

2Ti 1:7 KJV For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

The move of the Holy Spirit to force all things into absolute binary camps is moving at a fever pitch. Something is happening, It is quite possible that everyone is now required to stay in the camp they have chosen. No options for changing. Most people have little understanding of the degree of control God has on choice and how Grace held open options for men to "Choose Life" for a long time. As those who chose death begin to realize that the fence they were sitting on is gone and that they are on the dark side of an unscalable dividing wall they will grow desperate to justify their demise which will drive them insane.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,833
13,558
113
I am assuming a lot of the questions were rhetorical. So what is it you believe? Do you use, abide, follow, or deny the law of the kingdom of God?
i believe Jesus Christ is God being found in the form of a man. that He gave His life - no man takes it from Him - and took it up again, and that no one who puts their trust in Him will be ashamed, even if they die, they will live. i believe He is the mediator and guarantor of a new covenant, saying whoever is thirsty, come, drink of the water of life. having believed, i have died with Him, to be raised with Him, so that the things that were shadows are revealed as such by the substance. i believe the entirety of the law and the prophets are a type of Him, His person and work, and that if anyone does not see Him testified of in it, they do not understand it. i believe it is infinite, as He is infinite, and that one day He will return and we shall be made like Him, and see Him face to face. i believe there is no temple in the city there, because the Lamb Himself is its temple. i believe He has constrained all under sin so that He may show mercy to all, and that it is not by human effort, desire or will but He who has mercy and shows it to whom He will and hardens who He will, so that He may be all in all, and that all things are for His glory.

no one but Him is worthy to open the scroll. He will do all His will. He begins and He finishes. He is who has promised, and He is faithful: He will do it. i am clay in His hands, and i adore Him