Pentecostals and others claiming "second experiences"

[Waggles]

Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, and I don’t speak in tongues. I defy you to claim I don’t have the Holy Spirit in me.

No worries there I can on the authority of scripture.
There is only one sign or indicator in the NT when new believers become disciples through the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
They shall speak in new tongues > praying in tongues > praying in the Holy Spirit as opposed to praying with understanding (mind).
end of story.

 

[notuptome]

No worries there I can on the authority of scripture.
There is only one sign or indicator in the NT when new believers become disciples through the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
They shall speak in new tongues > praying in tongues > praying in the Holy Spirit as opposed to praying with understanding (mind).
end of story.

Complete heresy. Wrong on every point. Zero sound doctrinal scriptural support.

Gal 1:6 ¶ I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

'
IMO it's spiritual deception

the devil hates the gifts but seems to especially hate tongues

and praying in tongues. nope. cannot have that...too powerful

We who are born again have an advocate with the Father in Jesus Christ. We need no intercessory language to pray to the Father as our Advocate intercedes for us.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Bad behavior based on mans wisdom inspired doctrine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Waggles]

Gal 1:6 ¶ I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Every epistle of the NT is written to the Pentecostal churches of the first century - there are no other alternatives to Acts 2:38-39
all disciples are born again (converted) by water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues.
Those very verses in Galatians you quote in ignorance are written to the Spirit-filled church where all can and do pray in tongues.
Another gospel and departing from the faith refers to moving away from the full gospel of salvation with signs following -

 

[Lightskin]

See post #169

I have fully experienced what you discuss in post #169. My spiritual gifts and strengths are numerous, but tongues is not one of them.

 

[Lightskin]

No worries there I can on the authority of scripture.
There is only one sign or indicator in the NT when new believers become disciples through the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
They shall speak in new tongues > praying in tongues > praying in the Holy Spirit as opposed to praying with understanding (mind).
end of story.

That’s funny because on the authority of Scripture, Jesus states that He will not leave us orphaned. We will be given an advocate who will never leave us; He is the Holy Spirit. I have Him. Your understanding, or lack thereof, is moot.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

I have fully experienced what you discuss in post #169. My spiritual gifts and strengths are numerous, but tongues is not one of them.

Now that you are saved, you should ask the Lord to baptize you with the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4).

While it is certainly true the Holy Spirit came into your heart and life the moment of your Salvation, still, He now wishes to endure you with power from on high. Consequently, Jesus told all of His followers immediately before His Ascension, that they should "wait for the Promise of the Father" (Acts 1:4). He was speaking of being "Baptized with the Holy Spirit" (Acts 1:5).

You must understand that there is a great difference in being "born of the Spirit" than being " Baptized with the Spirit." They are two different works altogether.

To be "born of the Spirit" is that which took place at your conversion, as the Holy Spirit brought you to Christ and performed the work of regeneration within your heart and life. To be "Baptized with the Spirit" is in order that you may have Power with God (Acts 1:8). Every Believer should ask the Lord to fill them with the Holy Spirit, and expect to receive (Luke 11:13).


*IS IT NECESSARY TO SPEAK IN TONGUES? *

For Salvation, no, but if one wants the true New Testament experience, then one should want to speak with other Tongues exactly as the Bible says. Don’t make the mistake of seeking Tongues, we don’t seek Tongues, we seek the infilling of the Holy Spirit with Tongues being the initial physical evidence one has been filled.

*SEVEN STEPS TO RECEIVING THE INFILLING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT *

1. You must be Born-Again: There is only one requirement for one to be baptized with the Holy Spirit and that is to be Saved. No other requirements are needed. Salvation now prepares one for the Holy Spirit to come and live and work in a new and dynamic fashion.
2. You must decide that it is Scriptural: You must settle it in your spirit once and for all that this great Gift is for all Believers for all time. There must not be any doubt in your heart. Don’t let Satan fill your mind with all kinds of negative thoughts. Don’t let those who are not believers of the Spirit Baptism influence you negatively.

3. You must have Faith: Everything we receive from the Lord is always by Faith. We are to believe what He has promised in His Word, and He has most certainly promised the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:4, Joel 2:28-29, Isa. 28:11-12). Hebrews 11:6 says, “Without Faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a Rewarder of them who diligently seek Him.”

4. You must not fear: Don’t be afraid of opening yourself up to the spirit world, fearing that something of Satan will come upon you. Luke 11:11-13 says: “If a son ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your Heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them who ask Him?”

5. What to expect: You are to expect the Holy Spirit to put supernatural words (Tongues) into your spirit, and then for the Holy Spirit to move upon your vocal organs. The Lord will not force you to speak in Tongues. He will give the utterance, but we have to speak.

6. We must yield: By yielding I am meaning that in your heart you should say to the Lord, “I am asking You Lord to fill me with the Holy Spirit and by Faith I now receive.” We are not to beg, for the infilling of the Holy Spirit is a free Gift; neither are we to continually pray out loud in our own Tongue because one cannot speak in two languages at once.

7. Receive: You must understand that God has already given the Spirit and that it is a Gift and, consequently, the only thing one is to do respecting a Gift is to receive it. So you must say, “I am going to receive this Gift of God.”

So now if you haven’t received, then go through these steps and by Faith receive.


Pastor Donnie Swaggart

 

[notuptome]

Every epistle of the NT is written to the Pentecostal churches of the first century - there are no other alternatives to Acts 2:38-39
all disciples are born again (converted) by water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues.
Those very verses in Galatians you quote in ignorance are written to the Spirit-filled church where all can and do pray in tongues.
Another gospel and departing from the faith refers to moving away from the full gospel of salvation with signs following -

You start with a false assumption about the first century churches. You will never arrive at the correct conclusion with such a false premise. The first century churches were populated with many Jewish believers.

Prayer in tongues is a wholly false idea. Jesus never prayed in tongues. Jesus never instructed the apostles or disciples to pray in tongues. Jesus who is God incarnate became a man to bridge the gulf between man and God. Tongues to speak to God is an ill formed idea.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[7seasrekeyed]

We who are born again have an advocate with the Father in Jesus Christ. We need no intercessory language to pray to the Father as our Advocate intercedes for us.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Bad behavior based on mans wisdom inspired doctrine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

correction

YOU do not want to pray in tongues

now let me educate you

Jesus is our HIGH PRIEST...you already have the verses from Hebrews ... good for you

the Holy Spirit is our ADVOCATE or, in the original, PARACLETE

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.


now there is plenty about the Holy Spirit in the NT but even Jesus says that the Holy Spirit is our advocate

Roger...I have had MORE THAN ENOUGH exchanges with you regarding the Holy Spirit and frankly, you have nothing to say that is remotely biblical with regards to the Holy Spirit and His function in the world today


and this:

Bad behavior based on mans wisdom inspired doctrine.

is YOUR bad behavior. you simply cannot make a point that leaves out personal comment and often directed in a personal manner

since you have plainly stated that you are in agreement with MacArthurs' sinful and demonic renderings regarding the gifts and especially tongues, I would expect nothing less from you

please find someone else, who has not yet had the pleasure of your nastiness, and have a go at them

 

[7seasrekeyed]

That’s funny because on the authority of Scripture, Jesus states that He will not leave us orphaned. We will be given an advocate who will never leave us; He is the Holy Spirit. I have Him. Your understanding, or lack thereof, is moot.

please understand that the number of people in this world who believe if you do not speak in tongues you are not saved, are in the minority

that is not a biblical stance as can be and has many times in this forum, been denounced as wrong

and you are right about the Holy Spirit, as I posted above

we many not agree on speaking in tongues, but that is between you and God

Acts plainly teaches there were people already saved who received the ability to speak in tongues AFTER the fact. these people were recognized as saved by the disciples

anything else regarding that, is spurious and not of God

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I was in the middle of adding the following to my post, had to get the phone and ran out of time, so below is a part of the post above

thanks.

and message of the cross is a stalwart Jimmy Swaggart fan. Jimmy Swaggart was caught in sexual misconduct and refused to be corrected or submit to biblically sanctionned repentance...so I would not be insulted or worry about what message has to say

nothing good can come out of a so called ministry that operates above the 'law' and has a leader who refuses correction and continues unrepentant

 

[notuptome]

correction

YOU do not want to pray in tongues

now let me educate you

Jesus is our HIGH PRIEST...you already have the verses from Hebrews ... good for you

the Holy Spirit is our ADVOCATE or, in the original, PARACLETE

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.


now there is plenty about the Holy Spirit in the NT but even Jesus says that the Holy Spirit is our advocate

Roger...I have had MORE THAN ENOUGH exchanges with you regarding the Holy Spirit and frankly, you have nothing to say that is remotely biblical with regards to the Holy Spirit and His function in the world today

I have a correct biblical knowledge of the Holy Spirit and His ministry in this age. I know how the Holy Spirit ministers in my heart. I see and understand the leading of the Holy Spirit through the word of God.

and this:
is YOUR bad behavior. you simply cannot make a point that leaves out personal comment and often directed in a personal manner

since you have plainly stated that you are in agreement with MacArthurs' sinful and demonic renderings regarding the gifts and especially tongues, I would expect nothing less from you

please find someone else, who has not yet had the pleasure of your nastiness, and have a go at them

I do not think I have ever cited Mac Arthurs writings. You have stated many times that you pray in tongues or at least you believe you pray in tongues. I can find no teaching in scripture for praying in tongues. No examples in all that Jesus taught.

You can take everything personal I cannot help with that problem. I understand your feelings but Gods word is not subject to how you feel about what it teaches on this subject.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ugh,, someone wanted me to look at a post. I should have known..

Exit stage left!!!!

 

[Lightskin]

please understand that the number of people in this world who believe if you do not speak in tongues you are not saved, are in the minority

that is not a biblical stance as can be and has many times in this forum, been denounced as wrong

and you are right about the Holy Spirit, as I posted above

we many not agree on speaking in tongues, but that is between you and God

Acts plainly teaches there were people already saved who received the ability to speak in tongues AFTER the fact. these people were recognized as saved by the disciples

anything else regarding that, is spurious and not of God

I rejoice for people who have the gift of tongues. I don’t rejoice when certain beholders of tongues state one is lacking in their personal Christendom if they don’t have the gift of tongues.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I rejoice for people who have the gift of tongues. I don’t rejoice when certain beholders of tongues state one is lacking in their personal Christendom if they don’t have the gift of tongues.

even before I ever spoke in tongues, God was very real to me

how about all the believers in the OT? no tongues there

what is most missing, IMO, is substance

far too many put on a show and I have heard one too many (well more actually) so called interpretations that were not real...the gifts were given to build up the body of Christ...not to create superstars or personalities

the gift of the Holy Spirit was for power to witness for Christ...and to live for Him as the NT tells us

 

[Waggles]

Jesus never instructed the apostles or disciples to pray in tongues ... Tongues to speak to God is an ill formed idea.

15 And he [Jesus] said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
Jesus speaking to the disciples Mark 16:

For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.
1Corinthians 14:

 

[stonesoffire]

You start with a false assumption about the first century churches. You will never arrive at the correct conclusion with such a false premise. The first century churches were populated with many Jewish believers.

Prayer in tongues is a wholly false idea. Jesus never prayed in tongues. Jesus never instructed the apostles or disciples to pray in tongues. Jesus who is God incarnate became a man to bridge the gulf between man and God. Tongues to speak to God is an ill formed idea.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in another language, my spirit prays but my mind is not productive.

1Co 14:15 What does this mean? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind. I will sing psalms with my spirit, but I will also sing psalms with my mind.

I thought you said you follow the written Word?

What language was it when Jesus cried out to Father while on that Cross, that was interpreted?

 

[stonesoffire]

I have been baptized by/in the Holy spirit, and I do not speak in tounges.
🙂

Hi McGee

It’s possible to have another gift. Though I believe tongues is normally the first. Kind of like the opening up to others. Which do you operate in?

 

[stonesoffire]

That’s funny because on the authority of Scripture, Jesus states that He will not leave us orphaned. We will be given an advocate who will never leave us; He is the Holy Spirit. I have Him. Your understanding, or lack thereof, is moot.

I don’t doubt that you have Holy Spirit. But, does Holy Spirit have you?

I’m not trying to be sarcastic here, but the gifts are exactly that. Holy Spirit moving through our vessel. It’s like Spirit taking its rightful place in our being. Before we were soulish, but now Spirit reigns. The gifts are the empowering then of our Spirit man.

 

[CherieR]

Hi McGee

It’s possible to have another gift. Though I believe tongues is normally the first. Kind of like the opening up to others. Which do you operate in?

How do you know what gifts of the Holy Spirit you have? I know there are quizzes out there on spiritual gifts but certain ones seem more like questions involving personality.