Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
- Thread starter LW97
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Children such as your hypothetical 2 year old must go to the white throne judgement. Many Christians think that everyone at this judgement is condemned but I disagree. The Bible says the book of Life is opened at the white throne judgement. I don`t think the book of life would be opened unless some obtain mercy and I believe young children will be at the top of God`s mercy list.
-
1
- Show all
Do not look down upon me as being very argumentative and arrogant, not my intentions at all but i'll now try to come out openly and declare what triggered me somehow.
It is the second commandment, God took time to explain it.
Ex 20:
3“You shall have no other gods before a me.
4“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Deut 4:15So since you saw no form of any kind on the day the LORD spoke to you out of the fire at Horeb, be careful 16that you do not act corruptly and make an idol for yourselves of any form or shape, whether in the likeness of a male or female.
1. I know we are not under the law anymore but we are supposed to uphold it even more by this faith.
2. The command doesn't have any exceptions.
3. Christ is the image of the invisible God, clearly declared in the NT.
4. Christ now is a life giving spirit.
At #3 is where i'm having issues and have been thinking. How is Christ the image of the invisible God without us breaking the second command? Not only Christ but ourselves are the image of the invisible God.
It is the second commandment, God took time to explain it.
Ex 20:
3“You shall have no other gods before a me.
4“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Deut 4:15So since you saw no form of any kind on the day the LORD spoke to you out of the fire at Horeb, be careful 16that you do not act corruptly and make an idol for yourselves of any form or shape, whether in the likeness of a male or female.
1. I know we are not under the law anymore but we are supposed to uphold it even more by this faith.
2. The command doesn't have any exceptions.
3. Christ is the image of the invisible God, clearly declared in the NT.
4. Christ now is a life giving spirit.
At #3 is where i'm having issues and have been thinking. How is Christ the image of the invisible God without us breaking the second command? Not only Christ but ourselves are the image of the invisible God.
Do you disregard rewards? 1 Corinthians 3:13 - each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; (of reward) but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
In Matthew 5:11, we read - Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
In Matthew 10:42, we read - And whoever in the name of a disciple gives to one of these little ones even a cup of cold water to drink, truly I say to you, he shall not lose his reward.
In the parable of the minas, in Luke 19:15, we read - “And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned ten minas.’ 17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’ 18 And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned five minas.’ 19 Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities.’ The Bible also mentions various crowns that believers may receive.
In Matthew 5:11, we read - Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
In Matthew 10:42, we read - And whoever in the name of a disciple gives to one of these little ones even a cup of cold water to drink, truly I say to you, he shall not lose his reward.
In the parable of the minas, in Luke 19:15, we read - “And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned ten minas.’ 17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’ 18 And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned five minas.’ 19 Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities.’ The Bible also mentions various crowns that believers may receive.
-
1
- Show all
John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not judged/condemned; he who does not believe has been judged/condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. That is the dividing line between saved and lost. Keeping (Greek word "tereo" - guarding, observing, watching over) the commandments of God demonstrates that we have come to know Him/already know Him/already saved (1 John 2:3) but is not the basis or means by which we obtain eternal life.
You are confused. Galatians 5:22 - But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long suffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. Works of obedience produced out of love are good works.
Believers are not judged as being righteous/accounted as righteous based on works. Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.
You are confused. Galatians 5:22 - But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long suffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. Works of obedience produced out of love are good works.
Believers are not judged as being righteous/accounted as righteous based on works. Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.
-
2
- Show all
Paul clearly stated what we must do to be saved (or else) in Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.. Reading salvation by our own works into Acts 16:31 would an extreme case of eisegesis. How you can read salvation by our own works into Acts 16:31 is beyond me. If you can believe that, then you can believe anything! 
-
2
- Show all
E
That cant be.. no one is resurrected and brought to the great white throne, the book says death and hades are delivered to christ.
A child of god is not delivered,
The book of life is there because people have to use their works as a defense. And jesus used the book to say depart from me for i never knew you
A child of god is not delivered,
The book of life is there because people have to use their works as a defense. And jesus used the book to say depart from me for i never knew you
Paul clearly stated what we must do to be saved (or else) in Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.. Reading salvation by our own works into Acts 16:31 would an extreme case of eisegesis. How you can read salvation by our own works into Acts 16:31 is beyond me. If you can believe that, then you can believe anything!
Again;
Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man will come in His Father's glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done.
Not according to what they thought.
Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man will come in His Father's glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done.
Not according to what they thought.
False. 1 Corinthians 3:13 - each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; (of reward) but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. Using your logic, he will suffer loss of salvation, but he himself will be saved.
Believers are not only spirit, but will have resurrected bodies. Do you not believe in a physical resurrection of the body? That sounds like what JW's teach.
Believers are not only spirit, but will have resurrected bodies. Do you not believe in a physical resurrection of the body? That sounds like what JW's teach.
2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad.
Revelation 22:12
"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done.
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad.
Revelation 22:12
"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done.
Yes, repay each one according to what he has done. Other translations say reward each according to his works. *Now read Romans 4:4-6: Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.
*Eternal life/Salvation is a gift and is not a reward received based on works (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8,9)
*Eternal life/Salvation is a gift and is not a reward received based on works (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8,9)