Abomination of Desolation

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#141
#141
louis said:
Dan 9 concerns Daniel's people (true Israel), not physical unbelieving Israel.
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Wrong

Dan 9:
, 5 we have sinned and committed iniquity, we have done wickedly and rebelled, even by departing from Your precepts and Your judgments. 6 Neither have we heeded Your servants the prophets, who spoke in Your name to our kings and our princes, to our fathers and all the people of the land. 7 O Lord, righteousness belongs to You, but to us shame of face, as it is this day—to the men of Judah, to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, those near and those far off in all the countries to which You have driven them, because of the unfaithfulness which they have committed against You.


8 “O Lord, to us belongs shame of face, to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, because we have sinned against You. 9 To the Lord our God belong mercy and forgiveness, though we have rebelled against Him. 10 We have not obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in His laws, which He set before us by His servants the prophets. 11 Yes, all Israel has transgressed Your law, and has departed so as not to obey Your voice; therefore the curse and the oath written in the Law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against Him. 12 And He has confirmed His words, which He spoke against us and against our judges who judged us, by bringing upon us a great disaster; for under the whole heaven such has never been done as what has been done to Jerusalem.

This is not spiritual Isreal. This is nation Israel being punished according to the law of moses in Lev 26.


The Lord's holy temple is in his sanctuary, who are His people (true spiritual Israel). My spiritual perspective corroborates the Word.
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There is also a temple in jerusalem. Remember, Jesus called it his fathers house. Because that is what it represents.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#142
Oct 6, 2011
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#142
PlainWord said:
Let's not confuse the timing with the worshiping or the identity of what was abominable. The Roman armies caused the desolation. There can be no confusion about that. So, when did they first appear?

The first time was at the very beginning of the revolt. In the middle of Iyyar of A.D. 66, the Procurator Gessius Florus entered the holy city with the Roman army and killed 3,600 people in the Upper Marketplace of Jerusalem. This slaughter occurred just a couple days before a miraculous army was seen in the clouds (Michael v Satan perhaps) on the 21st of Iyyar of A.D. 66. The next occasion was during the Feast of Tabernacles of A.D. 66 when Cestius briefly besieged Jerusalem with the 12th Legion before mysteriously departing shortly thereafter. The final time in which the Roman army surrounded Jerusalem during the Jewish War was in A.D. 70 just before the fall of the city under Caesar Titus.

As warned in Luke 21:20-21, the presence of the Roman army and its ensigns (the abomination that causes desolation) outside of Jerusalem in Iyyar of A.D. 66 under Florus and perhaps later in Tishri of A.D. 66 under Cestius was a sign to the Christians in Jerusalem to flee the city. The great slaughter at the Upper Marketplace upon Florus’ entry into Jerusalem in Iyyar of A.D. 66 was the reason Jesus urged His people to immediately flee to the mountains in Matthew 24:16-18.

The same might be said concerning Cestius’ arrival at Jerusalem. After Cestius withdrew from the city, civil war and uprisings subsequently caused a catastrophic death toll in Jerusalem even before the arrival of Titus in A.D. 70. The violence following the times in which the Roman army arrived outside of Jerusalem under Florus and Cestius in A.D. 66 appears to be the reason Jesus warned His people in Matthew 24:16-18 and Luke 21:21 to immediately drop everything and flee the city after seeing this sign. I believe Christians seeing these armies outside of Jerusalem began to flee in Iyyar of A.D. 66 when seeing Florus’ army outside of Jerusalem while the rest fled in Tishri after seeing the Romans again surround Jerusalem under Cestius later that year.
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https://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-6.html (See chapter six),,, the AoD ,are you saying it is when they set up their ensigns and made Titus imperator? If so then so then the GT would already be over with and does not agree with Matthew 24:15-28. (Happens after instead of before in your model)...

In post #124 you quote Josephus twice and now you bring up the 12th https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legio_XII_Fulminata which lost their aquila(eagle/ensign) at the battle of Beth Horon(Jews took it) so this cant be the AoD. Then you bring up Florus,,, https://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-5.html (wars book 5,Josephus) who if you notice was doing this without the approval of Nero. so the AoD is it before ad66 or after ad70,,,your saying both?
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#143
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#143
Psa 88:8 (KJV) Thou hast put away mine acquaintance far from me; thou hast made me an abomination unto them: I am shut up, and I cannot come forth.

The Jews set up Christ (an abomination to the Jews) to STAND in THE HOLY PLACE where the blood of the lamb was offered up.

Lo I come in the VOLUME of the book, it is written about JESUS.

You guys are missing the mark completely. Daniel 9 is about the finished work of Jesus Christ, it’s about bringing in Jerusalem from above.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#144
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
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#144
iamsoandso said:
https://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-6.html (See chapter six),,, the AoD ,are you saying it is when they set up their ensigns and made Titus imperator? If so then so then the GT would already be over with and does not agree with Matthew 24:15-28. (Happens after instead of before in your model)...

In post #124 you quote Josephus twice and now you bring up the 12th https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legio_XII_Fulminata which lost their aquila(eagle/ensign) at the battle of Beth Horon(Jews took it) so this cant be the AoD. Then you bring up Florus,,, https://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-5.html (wars book 5,Josephus) who if you notice was doing this without the approval of Nero. so the AoD is it before ad66 or after ad70,,,your saying both?
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This should be book 2 (Florus) and not book 5(my error,lol) https://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-2.html
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#145
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#145
Nebuchadnezzer said:
Is the one who makes a covenant for 7 years the prince or is it the Messiah? hmmm? Perhaps we should all carefully look at this.
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It would be absurd to think that Jesus would make a covenant with the Jews for only seven years, only to VIOLATE IT, pollute the sanctuary, corrupt people with flatteries, and thus bring about the Great Tribulation and its desolations.

And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. (Dan 11:31,32)
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#146
Jul 18, 2017
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#146
KJV1611 said:
You guys are missing the mark completely. Daniel 9 is about the finished work of Jesus Christ, it’s about bringing in Jerusalem from above.
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Since Messiah was cut off but not for Himself BEFORE the abomination of desolation is mentioned, you are also deliberately perverting the meaning. And since Jesus Himself referred to this prophecy as a future event, you are ignoring what He said.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#147
Nov 23, 2013
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#147
Nehemiah6 said:
Since Messiah was cut off but not for Himself BEFORE the abomination of desolation is mentioned, you are also deliberately perverting the meaning. And since Jesus Himself referred to this prophecy as a future event, you are ignoring what He said.
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I have no idea what you’re talking about. Killing Jesus was the abomination that caused the Jews to become desolate.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#149
Oct 6, 2011
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#149
Then the Christians should have fled Judea like Jesus said when they Killed him(if they saw it as the AoD),, but they did not.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#150
#150
iamsoandso said:
Then the Christians should have fled Judea like Jesus said when they Killed him(if they saw it as the AoD),, but they did not.
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The great tribulation did not immediately follow either. Even his disciples did not flee. They stayed and started the church
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#153
Nov 23, 2013
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#153
iamsoandso said:
Then the Christians should have fled Judea like Jesus said when they Killed him(if they saw it as the AoD),, but they did not.
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What do you think it was like when Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead?

There was an earthquake, buildings were crumbling to the ground, dead people came
out of the ground. Then three days later the dead people stood alive and walked the streets of Jerusalem.

Do you think think it might have been a little chaotic at that time? Would you flee to the hills of Judeah?

Have you ever seen the walking dead lol. It was unimaginable chaos during those days.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#154
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#154
eternally-gratefull said:
The great tribulation did not immediately follow either. Even his disciples did not flee. They stayed and started the church
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You really have no clue as to what went on at the time of Christ’s death and resurrection do you?

I’ll see if I can dig up some stuff from the Old Testament to show you.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#155
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
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#155
KJV1611 said:
What do you think it was like when Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead?

There was an earthquake, buildings were crumbling to the ground, dead people came
out of the ground. Then three days later the dead people stood alive and walked the streets of Jerusalem.

Do you think think it might have been a little chaotic at that time? Would you flee to the hills of Judeah?

Have you ever seen the walking dead lol. It was unimaginable chaos during those days.
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lol, but what did the Apostles do, flee or go to where Jesus told them to wait in Acts 2? There actions don't agree with fleeing the GT.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#156
#156
KJV1611 said:
You really have no clue as to what went on at the time of Christ’s death and resurrection do you?

I’ll see if I can dig up some stuff from the Old Testament to show you.
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Yeah actually i do


I also know what happene in Ww1 and Ww2. And that what happened in the frist century pales in comparison

Jesus said the tribulation would be like no one has seen before or after, that rules anything i. The first century out.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#157
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
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#157
iamsoandso said:
lol, but what did the Apostles do, flee or go to where Jesus told them to wait in Acts 2? There actions don't agree with fleeing the GT.
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What point are you trying to make soandso? Give me verses so I can look it up.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#158
#158
iamsoandso said:
lol, but what did the Apostles do, flee or go to where Jesus told them to wait in Acts 2? There actions don't agree with fleeing the GT.
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They do not understand, it needs 100% fulfillment to be considered fulfilled
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#159
Nov 23, 2013
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#159
eternally-gratefull said:
Yeah actually i do


I also know what happene in Ww1 and Ww2. And that what happened in the frist century pales in comparison

Jesus said the tribulation would be like no one has seen before or after, that rules anything i. The first century out.
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Yeah are you expecting people to come out of the ground during the mythological “Seven Year Tribulation”?

Trust me you have no clue what happened back then because every verse in the Old Testament that talks about it, you think is going to happen in the mythological great tribulation.
 
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