Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
D

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#8,321
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
#8,321
RickStudies said:
Law =Torah= first 5 books of old testatment



noun

  1. (in Judaism) the law of God as revealed to Moses and recorded in the first five books of the Hebrew scriptures (the Pentateuch).
    • a scroll containing the Torah.
Click to expand...
Is it also know or referred to as "the letter"?
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#8,322
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#8,322
SimpleGardner said:
Another way to look at it is the anointing of the Holy Spirit is the anointing with the Spirit of Grace;
Rom 2:14 KJV
(14) For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Those who reject the Holy Spirit have resected the Spirit of Grace which writes the Law upon a mans heart.

When this grace is rejected the Letter of the Law is there to condemn them. When the Spirit of Grace is there there is no need for the letter as it is upon their hearts! But the wise man studies the letter as well.

SG
Click to expand...
That doesn't make any sense.

You said that when grace is rejected the letter of the law is there to condemn them. But when the Spirit of Grace is there there is no need for the letter because the letter is upon their hearts???

Since it is the letter of the law that condemns how can it be that same letter that is written on the heart? There would be no way to not be condemned if what condemns you is written on your heart.

I wonder why you can't comprehend this.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#8,323
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#8,323
RickStudies said:
I am fascinated by this. Explain how in your mind you are able to think I said Jesus failed? The accusations that get tossed around this place are a foul, amateurish replacement for real debate and dialogue. Morbid curiousity is the only reason I can come up with for my continueing to view these messages, though I have scaled back my participation in dialogue back quite a bit.
Click to expand...
You said it outright. I don't remember if it was in this thread or the Galatians thread. I think it was this one.

You said that the Lord Jesus came to bring the New Covenant. But He didn't. He only brought in part of it because the jews rejected Him.

You said He would bring in the rest of the New Covenant at some future time. To the Jews.


I don't know why legalists and judaizers can't just be honest about what they believe. Is it because you know there are real Christians here?

I get kind of irritated when people who profess Christianity say or imply that the Lord Jesus failed in what He came to do. Some don't know that they do it. Some do. Either way the result is the same.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#8,324
#8,324
DeighAnn said:
I am not trying to be funny. I am saying "people" who don't have rules, don't "naturally", act natural.
Click to expand...
true

But we are not talking about general people. we are talking about righteous people are we not?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#8,325
#8,325
DeighAnn said:
Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

John 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever but the Son abideth ever.

Schoolmaster from Pulpit Commentary I only add this cause I just learned it in the last couple days, but there is much interesting stuff on this word.
Paedagogus has no equivalent in the English language; "pedagogue," "schoolmaster," "tutor," "guardian," are all inadequate, covering each one an area of thought more or less quite different. "Tutor," as the masculine of "governess," comes perhaps nearest; but a tutor to a gentleman's children is generally an educated man, and often of like rank in life with those he is with whereas a paedagogus was usually a slave - an element of thought probably very near to the apostle's consciousness in his present use of the term.
Click to expand...
Yes, I have seen this before. And in rome, They usually used a slave to help Tutor young boys and get them prepared for life. hence the term tutor

The same commentary I used puts it like this,

"Mosaic law is likened as to a tutor because it arouses the consciousness of sin, and is preparing the soul for Christ, because those who have learned by experience with the law that they ARE NOT and CAN NOT be commended by God for their works, welcome more eagerly the hope of salvation offered them through the death and resurrection of Christ, the son of God* - A greek english lexicon of the New testament - Thayer
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#8,326
#8,326
Grandpa said:
That doesn't make any sense.

You said that when grace is rejected the letter of the law is there to condemn them. But when the Spirit of Grace is there there is no need for the letter because the letter is upon their hearts???

Since it is the letter of the law that condemns how can it be that same letter that is written on the heart? There would be no way to not be condemned if what condemns you is written on your heart.

I wonder why you can't comprehend this.
Click to expand...
so if it is written in a letter, it condemns

but if written on our hearts, it does not?

o_O
 
R

RickStudies

Active member
#8,327
Sep 10, 2019
782
222
43
#8,327
Grandpa said:
You said it outright. I don't remember if it was in this thread or the Galatians thread. I think it was this one.

You said that the Lord Jesus came to bring the New Covenant. But He didn't. He only brought in part of it because the jews rejected Him.

You said He would bring in the rest of the New Covenant at some future time. To the Jews.


I don't know why legalists and judaizers can't just be honest about what they believe. Is it because you know there are real Christians here?

I get kind of irritated when people who profess Christianity say or imply that the Lord Jesus failed in what He came to do. Some don't know that they do it. Some do. Either way the result is the same.
Click to expand...

Remarks like this are the reason I have little interest in having a conversation with you. False accusation and insults seems to be the only thing you`re good at. And you consider yourself the real Christian? WoW!

Only thing I said was that Jesus failed in His personal desire to fulfill all the promises prophesied to Israel and that the direct cause of this was Israels failure to be converted. I also posted scripture supporting my view.

The New Covenant is the contract that will govern the world in the age to come. All these are facts from your Bible. I guess it conflicts with your replacement theology.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#8,328
#8,328
RickStudies said:
Remarks like this are the reason I have little interest in having a conversation with you. False accusation and insults seems to be the only thing you`re good at. And you consider yourself the real Christian? WoW!

Only thing I said was that Jesus failed in His personal desire to fulfill all the promises prophesied to Israel and that the direct cause of this was Israels failure to be converted. I also posted scripture supporting my view.

The New Covenant is the contract that will govern the world in the age to come. All these are facts from your Bible. I guess it conflicts with your replacement theology.
Click to expand...
so jesus failed? in his desire to fulfill his promise to Israel?

This has me confused..
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#8,329
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#8,329
DeighAnn said:
Once again, just make up stuff, then put it forth as the truth. Then turn around and defend your lies.
Click to expand...
Do you mean the part about giving you too much credit?

Yes, I'm beginning to think I do.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#8,330
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#8,330
NayborBear said:
Guess what Grandpa?
So is this guy!
2 Thessalonians 2
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Question is?
Can you tell the difference?
Click to expand...
Are you saying that the Lord Jesus Christ opposes and exalts Himself above all that is called God?
 
R

RickStudies

Active member
#8,331
Sep 10, 2019
782
222
43
#8,331
eternally-gratefull said:
so jesus failed? in his desire to fulfill his promise to Israel?

This has me confused..
Click to expand...
Jesus was sad when He made this statement. I posted this passage before so I repeat myself again.


37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#8,332
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,189
113
#8,332
DeighAnn said:
I would be so ashamed and repentant knowing I flat out defied God like that, in a Christian forum like this.
Click to expand...
Would you though???

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

So if you say that some jots and tittles no longer apply but some do isn't that flat out defying God???

Since He said that not one jot or one tittle would pass from the law until ALL is fulfilled???
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#8,334
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#8,334
RickStudies said:
Law =Torah= first 5 books of old testatment



noun

  1. (in Judaism) the law of God as revealed to Moses and recorded in the first five books of the Hebrew scriptures (the Pentateuch).
    • a scroll containing the Torah.
Click to expand...
The first five books are NOT "ALL SCRIPTURE."
Can you not do better than that?
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#8,335
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#8,335
RickStudies said:
The New Covenant is the contract that will govern the world in the age to come. All these are facts from your Bible. I guess it conflicts with your replacement theology.
Click to expand...
Wrong, we are living in New Covenant (Testament) days now.
 
D

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#8,336
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
#8,336
Grandpa said:
Would you though???

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

So if you say that some jots and tittles no longer apply but some do isn't that flat out defying God???

Since He said that not one jot or one tittle would pass from the law until ALL is fulfilled???
Click to expand...
What I am saying is I have never said anything to oppose this " not one jot or tittle would pass from the law until all is fulfilled". As a matter of fact I have said "not a jot or tittle can change BECAUSE that would be adding to or taking away and would be changing the Word of God".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.