The Keys and Loosing and Binding

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TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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#41
The Greek word "G721 - lamb - arnion / arnia" is used 30x; 29 of them in The Revelation (all "singular" there).

The only time it is used OUTSIDE The Revelation is in John 21:15 (in the "plural" there; and said to "Simon [Peter]").


[John 1:29 "the Lamb of God taking away the sin of the world," for example, is a different Grk word, "G286 - Amnos"]
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#42
I think I kinda agree with this ^ .

I believe the passage states, [said unto Peter],

"And I will [future] give unto thee/you [singular] the keys of the kingdom of the heavens: and whatsoever things thou shalt bind on the earth shall [future] having been bound in the heavens: and whatsoever things thou shalt loose on the earth shall [future] having been loosed in the heavens"

https://biblehub.com/text/matthew/16-19.htm

...and I could be wrong, but I only recall the word "[to] you [singular; G4471 soi / su]" to be used in reference to a singular person, or to a singular nation (something like that)... Then the next verse states (verse 20), "Then He charged the disciples..." (meaning, all of the rest of them [plural] together along with Peter). It seems like it wouldn't be phrased in these ways (in these 2-3 verses), had verse 19 meant He was addressing all of them in that verse.
]
Well of course it is singular it was Peter the serial denier. That jesus revealed it to or towards peter not from Peter (blasphemy) . The others understood it was not revealed by flesh and blood Peter. Just as we do. No one bowed down to Peter venerating him.

Its what revelations do "real unseen truth" to or towards flesh and blood. Not after flesh and blood Peter the denier. Catholic simply turn the binding and loosening up side down as if it was loosed from Rome. .
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
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#43
I like what William Kelly says here, in his Commentary on Matthew 10 :

[quoting]

"Now chapter 10 shows that Jesus, as Lord of the harvest, sends forth labourers and this too with full authority and power given to them. But observe, it is still in special connection with Israel; and the Lord is conscious from the beginning of rejection by Israel. Meanwhile it is a Jewish mission of the twelve Jewish apostles to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. I take this quite literally, and not as if it were said of the Church, which is never spoken of as lost sheep; but the sheep of Israel in their desolate condition are most aptly so described. Before the Church is gathered, what we want is a Saviour. We Gentiles were not sheep at all, but dogs, in our Evangelist's point of view. (See Matt. 15) And after we have been brought into the Church, we are not, and cannot be, lost sheep. Whereas these poor of the flock are spoken of as lost sheep of the house of Israel. For up to this time the work was not done by which they could be put in the known position of salvation.

"Again, when our Lord is sending them forth, it is said, "He called unto Him His twelve disciples, and gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness, and all manner of disease" (ver. 1). This was peculiarly their mission. Not a word is said about preaching what we call the gospel, or teaching the whole counsel of God; but they were to go with messianic power against Satan and bodily diseases, as a testimony to Israel. They were to declare the kingdom of heaven. "As ye go," said our Lord, "preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand" (ver. 7). But the great characteristic feature of the mission was the conferring upon them power against demons and diseases. The appropriateness of this, in connection with Israel, is manifest. It was a bright evidence that the true King, Jehovah, was there, who was able Himself not only to cast out devils, but to confer that power upon His servants. Who but the King, the Lord of hosts, could do this? It was a testimony much greater than if the power had been confined to His own person. The ability to impart power to others (which was what Simon Magus, hoping to profit by it, so earnestly coveted) God here shows to be in His own Son. Now the servants were to be sent out, and in due order - twelve of them, in relation to the twelve tribes of the house of Israel. We find afterward the promise that they should "sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." There need be no question, therefore, that this was a Jewish mission. When the Church was called, God broke in upon the mere Jewish order by calling an extraordinary apostle, with a special view to the Gentiles - one who was called after Christ had died, and risen, and had taken His place at the right hand of God. Then came in this new work in the calling of the Church, and the apostle Paul became the characteristic minister of the Church, though the twelve had their place too. But at this time the twelve apostles were to be (what Paul was not) the ministers to Israel in testimony of the kingdom of heaven. For, observe, the strictest injunction was given them that they were not to go outside the limits of Israel; not even to visit the Samaritans, nor to enter into the cities of the Gentiles. Their business was solely with the lost sheep of the house of Israel: a positive proof that it means those of the Jews who had a sense of sin, and who were willing to receive the testimony of the true Messiah. With them, their business was exclusively. It is the more remarkable, because in this Gospel we are told that after He had died and was risen, the Lord sent them out to the Gentiles; but then it was on the evident ground that His death had come in. "I, if I be lifted up, will draw all men unto Me." Christ upon the cross becomes the attractive centre for man, as well as the foundation of all the counsels of God. Now in this case we have nothing of the sort. The Lord's death is not even referred to. His rejection is brought out, but nothing is said as to the building of a new structure - the Church. There was the waiting for still further rejection before this could be disclosed, as in Matthew 16.

"But here the Lord Jesus sends forth the twelve, and commands them, saying, "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass, in your purses; nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat" (vers. 5-10). That is, they were to go just as they were, with the coat they had upon them, with the shoes they had then on their feet. They were not to provide anything, or to lay up any store as a means of support during their mission. This is not a universal rule for the servants of God at all times. It was a peculiar mission, for a special time, and with reference to Israel only. It was not the gospel of God's grace, but of the kingdom. The two go together now; but then it was not so. Israel did not receive the testimony of the kingdom; an entire change comes in, and the kingdom of heaven, in outward establishment, remains in suspension. The calling of God now to the Gentiles comes in as a vast parenthesis between this message to the lost sheep in Israel and its full accomplishment in the last days. Whatever the Lord commands must be accomplished, but nothing is perfectly fulfilled till the Lord takes all in hand Himself."

--William Kelly, Commentary on Matthew 10 [source: BibleHub]

[end quoting]
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
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#44
No one bowed down to Peter venerating him.
[…]
Catholic simply turn the binding and loosening up side down as if it was loosed from Rome. .
Yeah, well I am not suggesting either of these ideas ^ is what was meant. ;)


[see Gal2:7]
 
Feb 28, 2016
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#45
MATT. 18:15-16-17.
Moreover if your brother shall trespass against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone:
if he shall hear you, you have gained your brother.
But if he will not hear you, then take with you one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses
every Word may be established.
17.
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the Church: but if he neglect to hear the Church,
let him be unto you as an heathen man and a publican.

this is basically the same formula that Paul is using in Cor., where a member of The Body of Christ
is committing 'incest', and Paul declares him as an 'heathen' and he ex-communicates him...
18.
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever
you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
so,
Christ gives the 'apostles authority', 'declared in Heaven', that whatsoever ruling they make, is inspired
by 'Heavenly Authority'...

MATT. 19:28.
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That you which have followed Me, in the regeneration
when The Son of man shall sit in the throne of His Glory, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones,
judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

the first part is like the 'practice run' -
18:19.
Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask,
it shall be done for them of My Father which is in heaven.
(again, this is in regards to a 'legal disagreement between two brethren) -
(the two that 'agree', are the 'two or three witnesses that are 'REQUIRED' to settle ANY DISPUTE -
MATT. 18:20' BACKS this UP...
For where two or three are gathered together in My Name, there am I in the midst of them.
this verse is 'continually used' to say that 'If two or more are gathered together in prayer, then
The Lord is there', and this is a TRUE statement, but, this has absolutely 'nothing to do with the context', -
the WHOLE CONTEXT has to do with, (the Government of God and how It works)...
as it is written:,
ISA. 9:6.
For unto us A Child is born, unto us A Son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder:
and His Name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#46
It could just mean what it says about authority.
That could be what it means.
Whatever you bind
Whatever you loose.
Ask in prayer and it will be done.

But thats just what it says.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#48
What is meant by this scripture?

And I will give unto thee the keys of the Kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shalt be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shalt be loosed in heaven. Matt.16:19
Peter was established as the Leader of the Christian community. During His time Scriptures where being written different people where sharing the Gospel.. Paul for example had to go to Peter and recieve Peters support for him to be recognised as a Gospel messenger of God.. Peter's affirmation of Pauls inspiration was needed for Pauls writings to be accepted as the Inspired word of God and thus scripture.. Jesus said to the Apostles::

John 16: KJV

12 "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. {13} Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. {14} He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you."

So Jesus made it clear to the Apostles that the Holy Spirit would give them more of the Gospel message after Jesus had left them, things that the Apostles could not handle at the time Jesus was with them in the flesh.. So Peter was given the inspiration and Authority to confirm a teaching to be of the Holy Spirit and thus true Gospel or to declare a teaching to be false and a deception.. By the time of Peters death the scriptures had been established.. And what ever Peter accepted as Inspired Gospel was let Loose on earth and what ever He declared false was bound / rejected by the church..

Peter was the start and the end of this position and ministry.. Peter was not the first of many.. The scriptures quoted by you comelordjesus only applied to Peter not to any decievers and twisters of the Gospel like the popes of the catholic religion..
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#49
Peter was established as the Leader of the Christian community. During His time Scriptures where being written different people where sharing the Gospel.. Paul for example had to go to Peter and recieve Peters support for him to be recognised as a Gospel messenger of God.. Peter's affirmation of Pauls inspiration was needed for Pauls writings to be accepted as the Inspired word of God and thus scripture.. Jesus said to the Apostles::

John 16: KJV
12 "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. {13} Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. {14} He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you."

So Jesus made it clear to the Apostles that the Holy Spirit would give them more of the Gospel message after Jesus had left them, things that the Apostles could not handle at the time Jesus was with them in the flesh.. So Peter was given the inspiration and Authority to confirm a teaching to be of the Holy Spirit and thus true Gospel or to declare a teaching to be false and a deception.. By the time of Peters death the scriptures had been established.. And what ever Peter accepted as Inspired Gospel was let Loose on earth and what ever He declared false was bound / rejected by the church..

Peter was the start and the end of this position and ministry.. Peter was not the first of many.. The scriptures quoted by you comelordjesus only applied to Peter not to any decievers and twisters of the Gospel like the popes of the catholic religion..
But why did you think Peter became some kind of a glorified bystander in the Jerusalem HQ at Acts 15, where James the brother of Jesus made the final decision?

Also, by Acts 21, Peter dropped completely out of the picture, it was only James and the elders.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#50
But why did you think Peter became some kind of a glorified bystander in the Jerusalem HQ at Acts 15, where James the brother of Jesus made the final decision?

Also, by Acts 21, Peter dropped completely out of the picture, it was only James and the elders.
Peter,, a bystander in Acts 15?????? How about you read Acts 15 for once.. And read How Peter got up after there was much disputing

Acts 15: KJV

6 "¶ And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. {7} And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. {8} And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; {9} And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. {10} Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? {11} But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they."

So Peter after hearing the debate among the other apostles stands up and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit made a final decision on the matter of circumcision that it was Not to be a burden placed upon the Gentiles... Peter made the critical final decision on the matter..

Peter a bystander???

What a totally misinformed statement to make about Peter and Acts 15..
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#51
Peter,, a bystander in Acts 15?????? How about you read Acts 15 for once.. And read How Peter got up after there was much disputing

Acts 15: KJV
6 "¶ And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. {7} And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. {8} And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; {9} And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. {10} Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? {11} But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they."

So Peter after hearing the debate among the other apostles stands up and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit made a final decision on the matter of circumcision that it was Not to be a burden placed upon the Gentiles... Peter made the critical final decision on the matter..

Peter a bystander???

What a totally misinformed statement to make about Peter and Acts 15..
Who is the one that made the final judgement regarding this matter, as recorded in Acts 15? James, or Peter?

Does that tell you who is the boss of the Jerusalem HQ?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#52
Who is the one that made the final judgement regarding this matter, as recorded in Acts 15? James, or Peter?
The Holy Spirit. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things (Acts 15:28)
Does that tell you who is the boss of the Jerusalem HQ?
James was the leading elder in Jerusalem. But the apostles had more authority than the elders, and were not limited to a single church, since they had wider responsibilities.

Also, the elders were all equal in every church, even though one might be the leading elder. And that is how they are addressed by the apostles -- always as a group and always as a plurality. The concept of a bishop over the elders arose after the apostles passed on. But the term bishop (episkopos) applies to elders.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#53
Who is the one that made the final judgement regarding this matter, as recorded in Acts 15? James, or Peter?

Does that tell you who is the boss of the Jerusalem HQ?
Wow i provide scriptures and you still cannot seem to be able to understand.. Peter made the decision and James then stood up in support of Peters decision..
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#54
Wow i provide scriptures and you still cannot seem to be able to understand.. Peter made the decision and James then stood up in support of Peters decision..
I am asking a simple question actually, why are you avoiding it?

Who made the final judgement at the end, as Acts 15 stated? Who spoke in verse 19?

You could still hold on to the belief that Peter is THE leader. I am just pointing out that Acts seem to paint a different picture of what actually was happening. James, the brother of Jesus was apparently at least of equal standing with Peter.

And when Paul spoke about Peter in his famous rebuke in Galatians 2 even indicated that Peter was concerned about "certain came from James" in v12.

This is evidence that Peter's standing among the Jewish believers in Acts was not as strong as the one James had, as you think it was.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#55
I am asking a simple question actually, why are you avoiding it?

Who made the final judgement at the end, as Acts 15 stated? Who spoke in verse 19?

You could still hold on to the belief that Peter is THE leader. I am just pointing out that Acts seem to paint a different picture of what actually was happening. James, the brother of Jesus was apparently at least of equal standing with Peter.

And when Paul spoke about Peter in his famous rebuke in Galatians 2 even indicated that Peter was concerned about "certain came from James" in v12.

This is evidence that Peter's standing among the Jewish believers in Acts was not as strong as the one James had, as you think it was.
Oh man i gave you the Answer.. The answer was in my first post.. If you cannot get the answer from 2 now 3 posts then i cannot help you because you need reading comprehension lessons.. You are willfully ignoring the content of my post. Anyone with a reasonable ability to read and comprehend will know without a doubt that i believe that PETER had the final say so on scripture and He made the critical speech in Acts 15..

So after this 3 posts i think there is no further reason to discuss this or anything else with you.. Since you are totally disregarding the clear answers i have given AND making a lying accusation that i am avoiding your question.. I feel NO obligation to continue in discussions with a person like yourself.. You are now on my ignore list..
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#56
Oh man i gave you the Answer.. The answer was in my first post.. If you cannot get the answer from 2 now 3 posts then i cannot help you because you need reading comprehension lessons.. You are willfully ignoring the content of my post. Anyone with a reasonable ability to read and comprehend will know without a doubt that i believe that PETER had the final say so on scripture and He made the critical speech in Acts 15..

So after this 3 posts i think there is no further reason to discuss this or anything else with you.. Since you are totally disregarding the clear answers i have given AND making a lying accusation that i am avoiding your question.. I feel NO obligation to continue in discussions with a person like yourself.. You are now on my ignore list..
Its interesting why there are people who feel the need to announce publicly that they are putting others on ignore. Reminds me of those childish tantrums in playgrounds where kids will say, "I don't want to friend you anymore".

If you choose not to discuss what you believe in with people who disagree with you, you don't have to reply to their posts.

Personally I learn more from presenting my points to people who disagree with me, and I can also learn from reading their perspective and understanding why they are seeing it differently from me, so I don't put people on ignore.

But I understand that not everyone is keen on that.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#57
James was the leading elder in Jerusalem. But the apostles had more authority than the elders, .
Most interesting that you hold this view. Actually, when you literally read how Acts 15 went down, as recorded by Luke. Peter actually stated this:

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

A literal reading will tell you that Peter is actually saying that he wants the Jews (we), from then on, to be saved, as a Gentile (they).

This is very significant because under the Law of Moses, Gentiles could be saved, but only as a Jew. Exodus 12:48 sums that up well.

And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

So when Peter announced that, it was of huge significance to all the Jews who heard him during the Council.

But alas, James intervened before it could take root, and he did his final announcement that

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

James, in my reading, deftly changed Peter's proclamation about how Jews and Gentiles are now to turn to God, into just the Gentiles.
And Acts 21 confirmed it, especially in v20

...Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law

In my reading, James kept the Jewish believers bounded to the Law of Moses. And as I have stated in my first reply to this thread, what they bound on earth, was also confirmed by heaven.

So much for the widely taught doctrine that Peter was the head of the church, and James merely supported Peter's decision, as what Adstar would believe. And yes, I cannot see how you could conclude that the 12 apostles had more authority than James. Scripture indicated otherwise.

It is amazing how a literal reading of Acts 15, without the baggage of church doctrine, reveals.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,236
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New Zealand
#58
What is meant by this scripture?

And I will give unto thee the keys of the Kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shalt be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shalt be loosed in heaven. Matt.16:19
Well look at the surrounding verses..


They are about resolving sin issues with other believers.

So.. the binding and loosing.. is about church discipline. Check Mathew 18

In particular verse 19

Its God approving a process of disciplining a sinning brother
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#59
Mat 18:18 is the same
Binding and loosing.
Allow < > disallow.

Context.
Mat 18:19
And anything you ask ,i will do it.

"I give you keys " power and authority and priviledge

Mat 18:18-19 was the text i stood on when God healed my blue healer of cushings disease,which is fatal 100% of the time.

The lame man at the gate beautiful is mat 18:18.
The man and wife extortionists killed is mat 18:18

Thats how they worked miracles.
Authority exercised.
Nothing has changed. Not even a sliver of change.
If you do not exercise your authority you will get very little victory.
What do you think is going on when you kick out the devil?
Authority

What do you think is going on when your child is sick,and in the spirit you see it is a demonic attack,and you loose your child from tjat grip of the enemy????
You exercised your authority.
You bound or disallowed the demonic,and you loosed your child into health and freedom.

Almost nowhere did Jesus or the apostles pray for the sick or demon possessed. They commanded.
Mat 18:18

IOW, MAKE IT LEAVE.
SICKNESS,DEMON ATTACK/OPPRESSION.

Cessationists nightmare that the power never left and Jesus is the same yesterday TODAY and forever.

So,we stay ready. We subject ourselves to a holy life,get refilled every morning,so we have something to give like what the apostles walked in.

Or,just walk a nominal life with a mixture of sin and God,and diminish what the bible says,believe your own doctrine,and you will have what we now see.... Mostly unanswered prayer.
You can not cast out demons or heal the sick except you recieve the anointing,walk holy, believe the bible,get refilled daily,and invoke mat 18:18,19 authority.

Heaven says that which you are bound with is the same that overcomes you.

You/ I have a crossroad.
It is the level of victory we decide to walk in.
Paul said " i will be behind in no gift"
That is why he walked in victory. He pursued it.
Passive=little to no victory
Active = the apostles
^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#60
It is strange that the ones posting in here believe there is a law at work in Jesus that he is bound by some imaginary rule that he can not change a thought mid stream of a paragraph.

Matt ch 7 has no less than 5 or so such changes of thought.
Jesus jumps all over the place.
Near the end he even says to keep "these sayings"
SAYINGS.
NONE OF ch 7 would make sense if the reader is bound by some silly rule that Jesus can not change the subject.
Matt 18:18 has zero to do with ANYTHING but authority and answered prayer (mat 18:19)

In fact mat 18 :19 ,if the immaginary context is applied would make no sense either.
Matt 18:19 is the law of agreement,which adds power the matt 18:18.