Not By Works
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Of course the law is not done away, I dont see how anyone could think that if they believe Jesus words.
Matthew 5:17-18, " 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Revelation 21:1-2, " 1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Revelation 22:14-15, " 14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Matt 13:41-43, “The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.”
Revelation 12:16-17, " 16 But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. 17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.
Revelation 14:12-13, " 12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!”
I think Jesus does the throwing into the fire via His angels:
John 15:5-16, " 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
Matthew 13:41-43, " 41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
Just like He gathers via His angels:
Matthew 24:29-31, " 29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
John 15:5-16, " 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
Matthew 13:41-43, " 41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
Just like He gathers via His angels:
Matthew 24:29-31, " 29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
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I think;
Matthew 10:22, “And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”
Matt 24:12-13, “And because of the increase in lawlessness, the love of many shall become cold. But he who shall have endured to the end shall be saved.”
Hebrews 10:36-38, “For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of Yah you may receive what is promised. 37 For yet a little while – He who is coming shall come and shall not delay. 38 But the righteous shall live by belief, but if anyone draws back, my being has no pleasure in him.”
Hebrews 9:27-28, “And as it awaits men to die once, and after this the judgment, so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to those waiting for Him, unto salvation.”
James 1:12, "Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him."
that while salvation may be waiting for His people, I don;t think it is recieved until He returns. See verses above.
Matthew 10:22, “And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”
Matt 24:12-13, “And because of the increase in lawlessness, the love of many shall become cold. But he who shall have endured to the end shall be saved.”
Hebrews 10:36-38, “For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of Yah you may receive what is promised. 37 For yet a little while – He who is coming shall come and shall not delay. 38 But the righteous shall live by belief, but if anyone draws back, my being has no pleasure in him.”
Hebrews 9:27-28, “And as it awaits men to die once, and after this the judgment, so also the Messiah, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time, apart from sin, to those waiting for Him, unto salvation.”
James 1:12, "Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him."
that while salvation may be waiting for His people, I don;t think it is recieved until He returns. See verses above.
I can see why "turning one over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh" is confusing then.
I believe we are saved by grace, we didn't do anything to earn it, it was a gift from God. We were sinners and God gave us the gift, why would he take it away when we never deserved it from the start?
I'm sure that you know that some very very wicked people like Paul (before conversion) were saved. Paul was persecuting the church, he was a terror to the Christians in his day.... but yet, being desperately wicked and working TOTALLY against God, God saved him.
Why would God save Paul in that state and then take it away from him for committing a few sins after his conversion?
Does this make sense?
I believe we are saved by grace, we didn't do anything to earn it, it was a gift from God. We were sinners and God gave us the gift, why would he take it away when we never deserved it from the start?
I'm sure that you know that some very very wicked people like Paul (before conversion) were saved. Paul was persecuting the church, he was a terror to the Christians in his day.... but yet, being desperately wicked and working TOTALLY against God, God saved him.
Why would God save Paul in that state and then take it away from him for committing a few sins after his conversion?
Does this make sense?
well like I said I dont believe any hav salvation until they meet Jesus in the air. we cant lose something we dont yet have.
there is also this:
Psalm 69:27-28, “Add iniquity to their iniquity! Let them not come into Your righteousness! May they be blotted out of The Book of Life, and not be written with the righteous!”
Revelation 3: 5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
Maybe all are writeen in the book at borth? or maybe it is a book of salvation, but none have yet recieved thus it's possible to be blotted out?
I have not seen the book and it's not fully explained in the word so none know exactly what it is I think.
there is also this:
Psalm 69:27-28, “Add iniquity to their iniquity! Let them not come into Your righteousness! May they be blotted out of The Book of Life, and not be written with the righteous!”
Revelation 3: 5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
Maybe all are writeen in the book at borth? or maybe it is a book of salvation, but none have yet recieved thus it's possible to be blotted out?
I have not seen the book and it's not fully explained in the word so none know exactly what it is I think.
You're reading the wrong bible version Shep. Take a look at the verse from the KJV.
Psa 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.
The KJV says let them be blotted out of the BOOK OF THE LIVING... this means that God is going to take their lives, they will not be among the living.
AND not be written with the righteous (THE BOOK OF LIFE).
Did you see that? They will NOT be WRITTEN in THE BOOK OF LIFE. Notice that it DOES NOT say blotted out of the book of life as the version you are using says.
Psa 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.
The KJV says let them be blotted out of the BOOK OF THE LIVING... this means that God is going to take their lives, they will not be among the living.
AND not be written with the righteous (THE BOOK OF LIFE).
Did you see that? They will NOT be WRITTEN in THE BOOK OF LIFE. Notice that it DOES NOT say blotted out of the book of life as the version you are using says.
This is not the version I usually use, it just a digital version I have.
Yes the hebrew does appear to be "living" but I would need to study it more.
However the greek in Revelation uses "zoe"
2222. zóé: life
Aside from this, I posted a number of verses that backed up my view that none recieve salvation until Jesus returns.
Yes the hebrew does appear to be "living" but I would need to study it more.
However the greek in Revelation uses "zoe"
2222. zóé: life
Original Word: ζωή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: zóé
Phonetic Spelling: (dzo-ay')
Definition: life
Usage: life, both of physical (present) and of spiritual (particularly future) existence
again as I said originally I dont think we fully understand what this book is, a few verses are not enought, but it does seem that whatever it means exactly, that those written in the book upon Jesus return for sure enter the kingdom,
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: zóé
Phonetic Spelling: (dzo-ay')
Definition: life
Usage: life, both of physical (present) and of spiritual (particularly future) existence
again as I said originally I dont think we fully understand what this book is, a few verses are not enought, but it does seem that whatever it means exactly, that those written in the book upon Jesus return for sure enter the kingdom,
Aside from this, I posted a number of verses that backed up my view that none recieve salvation until Jesus returns.