Not By Works

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Melach

Melach

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BillG

BillG

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Macabeus said:
Wrong. Grace is not just a position, it is what ACTIVELY saves us.

For by Grace you are saved.
Click to expand...
I don't see it that way.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Is the gift grace or faith?

Grace in essence is unmerited favour.

good will, loving-kindness, favourof the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in...

Grace is a gift

Romans 3:22
22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.

It's the gift of righteousness as a result of faith.

Grace is the source of salvation and faith is the channel.

The thief on the cross was not saved by grace.
He was saved as a result of grace offered and placed his faith Jesus.

Romans 10:9-11
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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M

Macabeus

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dcontroversal said:
I cannot alleviate the two following truths......

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness

Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
Click to expand...
James is talking about the KIND of faith that saves. The kind of faith that saves is not dead. Dead faith is like a power cord that’s not plugged in.

Faith not plugged in to God equals dead faith
 
M

Macabeus

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BillG said:
I don't see it that way.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Is the gift grace or faith?

Grace in essence is unmerited favour.

good will, loving-kindness, favourof the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in...

Grace is a gift

Romans 3:22
22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.

It's the gift of righteousness as a result of faith.

Grace is the source of salvation and faith is the channel.

The thief on the cross was not saved by grace.
He was saved as a result of grace offered and placed his faith Jesus.

Romans 10:9-11
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
Click to expand...
Grace is a multifaceted word. John 1:16
 
BillG

BillG

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Macabeus said:
James is talking about the KIND of faith that saves. The kind of faith that saves is not dead. Dead faith is like a power cord that’s not plugged in.

Faith not plugged in to God equals dead faith
Click to expand...
I don't think he is addressing about the kind of faith that saves.
He is talking about the kind of faith that evidences that we are saved.

Dead faith is dead faith, it's not plugged in.
Therefore not in the vine.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
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BillG said:
I don't see it that way.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Is the gift grace or faith?

Grace in essence is unmerited favour.

good will, loving-kindness, favourof the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in...

Grace is a gift

Romans 3:22
22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.

It's the gift of righteousness as a result of faith.

Grace is the source of salvation and faith is the channel.

The thief on the cross was not saved by grace.
He was saved as a result of grace offered and placed his faith Jesus.

Romans 10:9-11
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
Click to expand...
You posted my position when you typed the paragraph that says grace is when God exerts His Holy influence, turning people to Christ, etc.

Complete agreement with what I said🙂
 
M

Macabeus

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BillG said:
I don't think he is addressing about the kind of faith that saves.
He is talking about the kind of faith that evidences that we are saved.

Dead faith is dead faith, it's not plugged in.
Therefore not in the vine.
Click to expand...
James said “can such faith save him”

Dead faith is like fools gold. It’s not genuine, but counterfeit
 
Melach

Melach

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Macabeus said:
Yeah the great DC probably has an interpretation that no one in church history has ever used. Not a good sign
Click to expand...
where do we find this interpretations from church history? i want to see what they said about many verses.

many times i read commentaries and think these people wow. remember church history is very lied to us because its mostly roman catholics and many disagree opinions and books and commentaries were burned. only catholicism approved books remained.

what did the sermon was about in your church today? my went through last chapter of acts
 
BillG

BillG

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Macabeus said:
Grace is a multifaceted word. John 1:16
Click to expand...
Can't see how this proves your point in that grace saves us.

John 1:16-17
16 And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
 
BillG

BillG

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Macabeus said:
You posted my position when you typed the paragraph that says grace is when God exerts His Holy influence, turning people to Christ, etc.

Complete agreement with what I said🙂
Click to expand...
Nope.

It's not his grace that saves us.
It's faith as a result of his grace that saves us.

If his grace saved us then everyone would be saved.
 
M

Macabeus

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BillG said:
I don't see it that way.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Is the gift grace or faith?

Grace in essence is unmerited favour.

good will, loving-kindness, favourof the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in...

Grace is a gift

Romans 3:22
22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.

It's the gift of righteousness as a result of faith.

Grace is the source of salvation and faith is the channel.

The thief on the cross was not saved by grace.
He was saved as a result of grace offered and placed his faith Jesus.

Romans 10:9-11
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
Click to expand...
Everyone read the paragraph that begins with “good Will , loving kindness...God exerting His Holy influence on a soul, turning them to Christ, keeping them, etc

That is a proper definition of faith. The definition that can be applied to what I mean by grace in my posts

Kudos Bill
 
BillG

BillG

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Macabeus said:
Everyone read the paragraph that begins with “good Will , loving kindness...God exerting His Holy influence on a soul, turning them to Christ, keeping them, etc

That is a proper definition of faith. The definition that can be applied to what I mean by grace in my posts

Kudos Bill
Click to expand...
Ok so let me tell you what I think you are saying.

You have said "it's grace that saves"

If that's the case where does faith come into the equation?

You have said kudos.

Why?
 
M

Macabeus

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BillG said:
Nope.

It's not his grace that saves us.
It's faith as a result of his grace that saves us.

If his grace saved us then everyone would be saved.
Click to expand...
No, because grace is resistance.

If I offer you a present and you accept it,did you receive the gift because you accepted it or because it was given. Both. But which is the primary cause? The giver. Receiving is only a secondary, lesser cause
 
G

gb9

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M

Macabeus

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BillG said:
Ok so let me tell you what I think you are saying.

You have said "it's grace that saves"

If that's the case where does faith come into the equation?

You have said kudos.

Why?
Click to expand...
The definition you gave of faith is spot on

Faith comes into the equation AFTER God exerts a mighty and Holy influence on us.

So kudos
 
M

Macabeus

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Macabeus said:
Everyone read the paragraph that begins with “good Will , loving kindness...God exerting His Holy influence on a soul, turning them to Christ, keeping them, etc

That is a proper definition of faith. The definition that can be applied to what I mean by grace in my posts, where it says that grace involves God exerting a Holy influence

Kudos Bill
Click to expand...
For those who gave a partial definition of grace, Bill posted an accurate definition of grace in the post above where it says that grace involves God exerting a Holy influence on man in turning them to Christ, keeping them, etc

That is a really good definition of Grace, and one that fits my position like a glove. 🙂
 
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