If Perchance Catholicism Is Mistaken

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Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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I think we have a different interpretation of what discerning of spirits is.

So again, a matter of interpretation.

I don't think there is a gift of talking to the Dead. But Jesus did talk with a dead person, Moses.
Jesus doesn't have a gift, He is giver, He is God, so He can do anything He want.

For human, Corinthians give the list of gift, the gift to talk to the dead is nay on the list. So I don't think there is
 

Dan_473

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Mar 11, 2014
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Jesus doesn't have a gift, He is giver, He is God, so He can do anything He want.

For human, Corinthians give the list of gift, the gift to talk to the dead is nay on the list. So I don't think there is
Do you believe that Jesus is also human?

Whether 1st Corinthians 12 is a complete list or a list of examples, is again a matter of interpretation, I think.
 

Jackson123

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Right, it was God's power being displayed to the bones of Elisha.

I don't think your logic follows concerning what the king of Israel would have done.
2 Kings 13: 20. Elisha died, and they buried him. Now the bands of the Moabites invaded the land at the coming in of the year. 21. It happened, as they were burying a man, that behold, they spied a band; and they cast the man into the tomb of Elisha: and as soon as the man touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.

It's possible that the men doing the burying didn't wait around to see what it happened. They were running away from moabites. It's also possible that by the time the moabites went away, people had forgotten where the grave was, or it had been covered over.

Acts 5: 13. None of the rest dared to join them, however the people honored them. 14. More believers were added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women. 15. They even carried out the sick into the streets, and laid them on cots and mattresses, so that as Peter came by, at the least his shadow might overshadow some of them.

Were they healed when Peter's Shadow fell on them? It sounds like it. Did God continue displaying his power that way throughout Peters life? Like even when he was being crucified? Probably not, why kill someone like that when you could keep using him to heal people, like Caesar and his family.

So I think in these situations, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
Yep the bone do not have a power to raise the dead. And God not always display a His power through that bone. Catholic veneration of relic is not apostle tradition. It is pagan tradition.

I think you misunderstood me about the king.

I say, if the bone have power to raise the dead, than the king must bring Elisha bone when he go to war so no body able to kill him.

And king David may still alive now, just attract Elisha bone in his body.
 

Jackson123

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Well, if you say that athanasius was not using apostolic tradition when he said which books were in the New testament, then who decided which books are in the New testament that you use?
I do not say athanius not using apostle tradition or using it.

I do not know him and never read what he does.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Do you believe that Jesus is also human?

Whether 1st Corinthians 12 is a complete list or a list of examples, is again a matter of interpretation, I think.
Jesus was temporary human and God, we are permanent human.

That is the different. God able to heal, raise the dead, we not unless using the power of God, like Paul once using the power of God to raise the dead.

So you believe there is gift to talk to the dead?

Where in the Bible about gift to talk to the dead?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Yep the bone do not have a power to raise the dead. And God not always display a His power through that bone. Catholic veneration of relic is not apostle tradition. It is pagan tradition.

I think you misunderstood me about the king.

I say, if the bone have power to raise the dead, than the king must bring Elisha bone when he go to war so no body able to kill him.

And king David may still alive now, just attract Elisha bone in his body.
When did apostolic tradition end, in your view?

When the man touches Elisha's bones, he comes back to life by God's power. Would that have worked again? Possibly.

But before the king of Israel could try it out, he would have to find Elisha's bones. But there were the moabites there now. How long were the moabites there? It doesn't say.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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I do not say athanius not using apostle tradition or using it.

I do not know him and never read what he does.
Well, we can start here. The New testament that you use, who decided what books are in it?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Jesus was temporary human and God, we are permanent human.

That is the different. God able to heal, raise the dead, we not unless using the power of God, like Paul once using the power of God to raise the dead.

So you believe there is gift to talk to the dead?

Where in the Bible about gift to talk to the dead?
I think most Protestants, along with Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, believe that Jesus continues to be human.

Protestants look at versus like this
1 Timothy 2: 5. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Of course, you are welcome to have your own interpretation of what the scriptures say. I'm just saying that it differs from not only Catholic and Eastern Orthodox, but I think most Protestants as well.

In your view, was Jesus human when he talked to Moses? Was Moses dead at that time?

As I believe I talked about earlier, I don't think there is a gift listed in the scriptures of talking to the Dead.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
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I think most Protestants, along with Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, believe
that Jesus continues to be human.

1• According to Heb 2:5-9, the world to come is slated to be governed by
humans rather than angels. Were Jesus not a human, he would be
disqualified. (cf. Isa 9:6-7 and Dan 7:13-14)

2• According to Heb 5:1-6, Jesus is a high priest patterned after
Melchizedek; he was a human being. (cf. Ps 110:1-6)

Also according to Heb 5:1-6; high priests are selected from human ranks.
_
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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When did apostolic tradition end, in your view?

When the man touches Elisha's bones, he comes back to life by God's power. Would that have worked again? Possibly.

But before the king of Israel could try it out, he would have to find Elisha's bones. But there were the moabites there now. How long were the moabites there? It doesn't say.
I do not think it is always work, like Peter shadow.

I do not know how long Elisha grave under moabites, but if the bone have a power, people will do what ever they can to get it. Any way, instead to put your hope in the bone, why not to Jesus.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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I think most Protestants, along with Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, believe that Jesus continues to be human.

Protestants look at versus like this
1 Timothy 2: 5. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Of course, you are welcome to have your own interpretation of what the scriptures say. I'm just saying that it differs from not only Catholic and Eastern Orthodox, but I think most Protestants as well.

In your view, was Jesus human when he talked to Moses? Was Moses dead at that time?

As I believe I talked about earlier, I don't think there is a gift listed in the scriptures of talking to the Dead.
If only one mediator, why catholic pray to Mary.

Is jesus still man now? I not concern, but I know He is God, and my savior, that is more than enough for me.

What is your definition of a man?

human[ hyoo-muh n or, often, yoo‐ ]SHOW IPA
EXAMPLES|WORD ORIGIN
SEE MORE SYNONYMS FOR human ON THESAURUS.COM
adjective
of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or having the nature of people:
human frailty.
consisting of people:
the human race.
of or relating to the social aspect of people:
human affairs.
sympathetic; humane:
a warmly human understanding.
noun
a human being.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
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113
.



1• According to Heb 2:5-9, the world to come is slated to be governed by
humans rather than angels. Were Jesus not a human, he would be
disqualified. (cf. Isa 9:6-7 and Dan 7:13-14)


2• According to Heb 5:1-6, Jesus is a high priest patterned after
Melchizedek; he was a human being. (cf. Ps 110:1-6)


Also according to Heb 5:1-6; high priests are selected from human ranks.
_
Hi Webers.Home, good to see you again!

How are you doing these days?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
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I do not think it is always work, like Peter shadow.

I do not know how long Elisha grave under moabites, but if the bone have a power, people will do what ever they can to get it. Any way, instead to put your hope in the bone, why not to Jesus.
I agree, put your hope in Jesus!

But sometimes God uses objects, too. I don't know why.

Acts 19: 11. God worked special miracles by the hands of Paul, 12. so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were carried away from his body to the sick, and the evil spirits went out.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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I believe it decide by The Holy Spirit.
Right, what books are in the New testament was decided by the holy Spirit.

How did the holy Spirit communicate that list to you?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
If only one mediator, why catholic pray to Mary.

Is jesus still man now? I not concern, but I know He is God, and my savior, that is more than enough for me.

What is your definition of a man?

human[ hyoo-muh n or, often, yoo‐ ]SHOW IPA
EXAMPLES|WORD ORIGIN
SEE MORE SYNONYMS FOR human ON THESAURUS.COM
adjective
of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or having the nature of people:
human frailty.
consisting of people:
the human race.
of or relating to the social aspect of people:
human affairs.
sympathetic; humane:
a warmly human understanding.
noun
a human being.
I think Catholics would say that they pray to Mary for the same reasons that many Protestants ask other people to pray with them.

The English word pray overlaps with the word ask.

I think that definition of the word human you posted is fine.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
If only one mediator, why catholic pray to Mary.

Is jesus still man now? I not concern, but I know He is God, and my savior, that is more than enough for me.

What is your definition of a man?

human[ hyoo-muh n or, often, yoo‐ ]SHOW IPA
EXAMPLES|WORD ORIGIN
SEE MORE SYNONYMS FOR human ON THESAURUS.COM
adjective
of, pertaining to, characteristic of, or having the nature of people:
human frailty.
consisting of people:
the human race.
of or relating to the social aspect of people:
human affairs.
sympathetic; humane:
a warmly human understanding.
noun
a human being.
Something about Martin Luther that I did not know

"Despite his unremitting criticism of the traditional doctrines of Marian mediation and intercession, to the end Luther continued to proclaim that Mary should be honored. He made it a point to preach on her feast days.

"The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart."5

"Is Christ only to be adored? Or is the holy Mother of God rather not to be honoured? This is the woman who crushed the Serpent's head. Hear us. For your Son denies you nothing."6 Luther made this statement in his last sermon at Wittenberg in January 1546.

http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/general/mary.htm
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,892
1,084
113
Oregon
.
According to Heb 5:1-6, Jesus is a high priest patterned after Melchizedek;
he was a human being. (cf. Ps 110:1-6). Also according to Heb 5:1-6; high
priests are selected from human ranks.

FAQ: Aren't males from among Aaron's descendants the ones selected from
human ranks to be God's high priests?

A: Yes, they were and they still are; Jesus didn't depose them. According to
Heb 8:4-5, were Jesus on Earth, he would not be a high priest.

FAQ: So Jesus is a high priest. What am I supposed to do about it?

A: Initiate a rapport with heaven. According to Heb 1:3 and Heb 10:12, Jesus is
in the very presence of God so your connection will be much better than
routing your concerns thru underlings down here on the ground.

Simply find a private moment to speak up and tell Jesus that you're aware
there's an afterlife and that that you're concerned about coming out on the
wrong side of it. That'll get the ball rolling.

Your concern, if honest, won't end up in the round file.

John 6:37 . . All that the Father gives me shall come to me, and the one
who comes to me I certainly will not cast out.

FAQ: Jesus is way out there in heaven somewhere. How's he supposed to
hear me?

A: According to John 1:1-14, Jesus Christ is not only a human being, but
also a divine being. Don't worry, he'll hear you alright; nothing escapes his
notice.
_
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
Right, what books are in the New testament was decided by the holy Spirit.

How did the holy Spirit communicate that list to you?
Holy Spirit tell to sme people than they put it in a book and other people like me believe it.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
I think Catholics would say that they pray to Mary for the same reasons that many Protestants ask other people to pray with them.

The English word pray overlaps with the word ask.

I think that definition of the word human you posted is fine.
I never heard protestant pray to the dead.

We may ask our brother that still physically alive to pray for us but not the dead, make a statue and bow unto their statue. This is pagan tradition.