What do you mean when you say, "The Bible is the Word of God"?

[JesusLives]

To me the Bible is made up of manuscripts that has been decided upon by the catholic church as authoritative and inspirational. Irenaeus, the early church father, had 21 books that he considered authoritative. And I don't think the final form that the bible took was finally settled until the 1500s at the Council of Trent (Revelation was a late entry for inclusion). To this day there are slight variations between the catholic, protestant and orthodox versions of scripture. Also modern scholarly analysis of the letters of St. Paul have shown that it wasn't the same person who wrote them all (the letters to Timothy, for example, were not written by the person who wrote collosians). So while scripture is useful for inspiring and edifying us, I don't consider it absolute or infallible. To me the Word of God is not a book, but Christ. And as we read it the word of God is the meaning and wisdom Christ gives us as we read scripture.
For the first 500 years of Christianity there was no bible as we understand it. So they couldn't have thought of the "Word of God" as the bible we have.
Anyway, I look forward to seeing what your understanding is. Thanks guys. X

This is my take on it...


2 Timothy 3:
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Peter 1:
19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

I look at the Bible as inspired by God and I also feel as one reads and studies the Bible that it is a good idea to ask the Holy Spirit to help my understanding as I read Gods word, (Bible), as I personally feel and have found for myself that God/Holy Spirit has been my best teacher in helping me to understand what I am reading when I have had questions about the Bible.

I still have a lot of questions myself and will never consider that I have learned everything it would take beyond my lifetime and maybe even into eternity to try to understand God and His word.. But that makes getting to know Him even more exciting as it will never end the relationship that can be developed between us.

 

[JesusLives]

Adstar, for me Christ is the Word of God. My relationship is with God and is a living one. God can speak to our hearts in many ways, including reading the bible. To me it is this: the inspiration and wisdom we gain from reading the bible is the word of God to us. It is just stories and words until the spirit brings it to life for us. Paul says, "the letter kills, but the spirit brings life". This is gained from our lived relationship with him. Jesus tells us to "consider the lilies of the field and the "birds of the air" in other words, let God speak to you through what is around you. The word of god is what genuinely speaks to our hearts to inspire wisdom in us. I think that the elevation of an "inerrant and infallible" bible can become an idol that gets in the way of a living, personal relationship with God.

I think that another major benefit of the Bible is as we read it - we are changed and have a change of heart if we really believe what we are reading then it will be a part of us and we can't help but to change for the better. We will learn to love others and show God's love to those around us.

Things we may have done before that would be destructive to us we want to change as example upon learning that our body is the temple of God if I smoke I will want to stop as it is harmful to my lungs and could eventually kill me.

Or if I were a gossip my heart will be touched to realize that my words are hurting others and I will stop as I no longer want to cause that pain.

Lives are transformed and we start to become more and more like Jesus and people notice the change so the word of God is transforming....

 

[Deuteronomy]

Here is a recent, well-done documentary/movie about the Bible called, The God Who Speaks that can be viewed for free right now by Amazon Prime members. The cast is made up of a number of well-known Christian theologians, historians, apologists, linguists, and pastors from various churches/denominations.

Enjoy

~Deut

.

 

[Adstar]

Adstar, for me Christ is the Word of God. My relationship is with God and is a living one. God can speak to our hearts in many ways, including reading the bible. To me it is this: the inspiration and wisdom we gain from reading the bible is the word of God to us. It is just stories and words until the spirit brings it to life for us. Paul says, "the letter kills, but the spirit brings life". This is gained from our lived relationship with him. Jesus tells us to "consider the lilies of the field and the "birds of the air" in other words, let God speak to you through what is around you. The word of god is what genuinely speaks to our hearts to inspire wisdom in us. I think that the elevation of an "inerrant and infallible" bible can become an idol that gets in the way of a living, personal relationship with God.

The Holy Bible is not an Idol when we trust that it is the inerrant and infallible Word of God.. Because it is the Inerrant and Infallible Word of God.. And if the Holy Spirit is guiding us we shall have no problems acknowledging the Holy Bible as the inerrant and infallible Word of God.. Yes Jesus is the Word of God,, Jesus is God manifested in the flesh.. So the Bible is filled with His Words.. The Words that He spoke to us.. The Words that are spirit and life.. Eternal life..

John 6: KJV
63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

It is my experience that people who have a problem with the Holy Bible being identified as the inerrant and infallible Word of God disagree with some of the messages of God contained there within.. They want to undermine the Holy Bible as the Word of God so that they can believe what ever they want to believe the will of God is.. So that they can have the sin that they love no longer identified as sin.. But this is the Way of death.. Because a sin not acknowledged is a sin that will never be forgiven. until it is acknowledged..

It is so easy to be forgiven all ones sins.. Just by believing Jesus ( His Words /will for people) and trusting in the Atonement the LORD Jesus secured by His death on the cross.. But sadly some are too proud and love their sins too much and thus hate the Word of God because it does not justify their sin..

 

[Dibby53]

This is my take on it...


2 Timothy 3:
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Peter 1:
19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

I look at the Bible as inspired by God and I also feel as one reads and studies the Bible that it is a good idea to ask the Holy Spirit to help my understanding as I read Gods word, (Bible), as I personally feel and have found for myself that God/Holy Spirit has been my best teacher in helping me to understand what I am reading when I have had questions about the Bible.

I still have a lot of questions myself and will never consider that I have learned everything it would take beyond my lifetime and maybe even into eternity to try to understand God and His word.. But that makes getting to know Him even more exciting as it will never end the relationship that can be developed between us.

Thankyou Jesuslives. I do find much inspiration in the bible. Particularly the life of Jesus. I,m interested in why some documents were included and others left out ofthe final canon

The Holy Bible is not an Idol when we trust that it is the inerrant and infallible Word of God.. Because it is the Inerrant and Infallible Word of God.. And if the Holy Spirit is guiding us we shall have no problems acknowledging the Holy Bible as the inerrant and infallible Word of God.. Yes Jesus is the Word of God,, Jesus is God manifested in the flesh.. So the Bible is filled with His Words.. The Words that He spoke to us.. The Words that are spirit and life.. Eternal life..

John 6: KJV
63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

It is my experience that people who have a problem with the Holy Bible being identified as the inerrant and infallible Word of God disagree with some of the messages of God contained there within.. They want to undermine the Holy Bible as the Word of God so that they can believe what ever they want to believe the will of God is.. So that they can have the sin that they love no longer identified as sin.. But this is the Way of death.. Because a sin not acknowledged is a sin that will never be forgiven. until it is acknowledged..

It is so easy to be forgiven all ones sins.. Just by believing Jesus ( His Words /will for people) and trusting in the Atonement the LORD Jesus secured by His death on the cross.. But sadly some are too proud and love their sins too much and thus hate the Word of God because it does not justify their sin..

I wouldn't say that people can believe what they want to belive concerning the will of God. God's will is commensurate with God's nature. So love is the will of God; and to apply that love to any situation requires the wisdom of God. My belief that the bible is not inerrant and infallible does not negate the bible, but means that I have to go deeper into its meaning, context and history.
It is not free from error: Matthew and Luke contain 2 contradictory accounts of Jesus's family tree; different acounts of Judas's death ( Matt 27 and Acts 1). To elevate scripture to a level of infallibility would mean that the people who wrote it were infallible. They were not. Inspired certainly, but not infallible.

 

[Adstar]

Thankyou Jesuslives. I do find much inspiration in the bible. Particularly the life of Jesus. I,m interested in why some documents were included and others left out ofthe final canon


I wouldn't say that people can believe what they want to belive concerning the will of God. God's will is commensurate with God's nature. So love is the will of God; and to apply that love to any situation requires the wisdom of God. My belief that the bible is not inerrant and infallible does not negate the bible, but means that I have to go deeper into its meaning, context and history.
It is not free from error: Matthew and Luke contain 2 contradictory accounts of Jesus's family tree; different acounts of Judas's death ( Matt 27 and Acts 1). To elevate scripture to a level of infallibility would mean that the people who wrote it were infallible. They were not. Inspired certainly, but not infallible.

So you are sure and would stake your eternal life on the belief that the accounts Judas must be wrong either in Matt27 or Acts 1?

You are declaring one of the accounts false and therefore a lie... right?

 

[Dibby53]

So you are sure and would stake your eternal life on the belief that the accounts Judas must be wrong either in Matt27 or Acts 1?

You are declaring one of the accounts false and therefore a lie... right?

No Adstar. I,m not doing that. How do I know? I wasn't in 1st century Palestine to know what might, or might not have happened. I,m simply saying that when people say that the bible is without any errors I think they are wrong. But that doesn't invalidate scripture to me. It means I need to think about it more, engage with scholarship more and use reason and God's guidance to mine for the gold.

Do you think that the loving, heavenly Father would in some way find it offensive that I think on these things? Would he worry that I,m using my reason and meditations on him to gain guidance?

 

[Adstar]

No Adstar. I,m not doing that. How do I know? I wasn't in 1st century Palestine to know what might, or might not have happened. I,m simply saying that when people say that the bible is without any errors I think they are wrong. But that doesn't invalidate scripture to me. It means I need to think about it more, engage with scholarship more and use reason and God's guidance to mine for the gold.

Do you think that the loving, heavenly Father would in some way find it offensive that I think on these things? Would he worry that I,m using my reason and meditations on him to gain guidance?

You have stated publically that the Bible is wrong in regard to the account of the death of Judas.. And i asked you questions on your positon.. And you are not willing to stand up and support your charge against the Word of God..

Disbelieving God is of great offense to Him,, yes.. Disbelieving God will send people to the eternal Lake of Fire..

Believing God and Trusting Him are the Keys to eternal Life..

 

[Dibby53]

You have stated publically that the Bible is wrong in regard to the account of the death of Judas.. And i asked you questions on your positon.. And you are not willing to stand up and support your charge against the Word of God..

Disbelieving God is of great offense to Him,, yes.. Disbelieving God will send people to the eternal Lake of Fire..

Believing God and Trusting Him are the Keys to eternal Life..

No. I said I don,t know. There are 2 versions of Judas's death. They cannot both be right. They say different things. I have no idea which is true. (There are other examples aswell). Simply to say that the bible is " inerrant" in every detail is not true. I,m open to any new insights people may have. But thats how I see it at the moment. I don't think God will condemn me for asking questions and using my intellectual faculties to research this. If God is my Father, why would he need to threaten me with a Lake of Fire?

 

[Adstar]

No. I said I don,t know. There are 2 versions of Judas's death. They cannot both be right. They say different things. I have no idea which is true.

First you say you do not know and then you say you know that both accounts cannot be right that they both cannot be true...

That statement sir is contradictory in the extreme.. Either you know this or you do not know this.. And if you don't know this you cannot make such an accusation.. Why don't you come down firmly and state what you believe on the matter and state that you know it?

Of course i believe Both are True..

 

[Melach]

To elevate scripture to a level of infallibility would mean that the people who wrote it were infallible. They were not. Inspired certainly, but not infallible.

if i say A and you say B how can we know who is right without infallible scriptures? if its inspired by Holy Spirit but still contains errors.... is it from Holy Spirit? how is Holy Spirit different from me then? i make mistakes. please answer me: are you a roman catholic yes or no?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

No. I said I don,t know. There are 2 versions of Judas's death. They cannot both be right. They say different things. I have no idea which is true. (There are other examples aswell). Simply to say that the bible is " inerrant" in every detail is not true. I,m open to any new insights people may have. But thats how I see it at the moment. I don't think God will condemn me for asking questions and using my intellectual faculties to research this. If God is my Father, why would he need to threaten me with a Lake of Fire?

Nothing wrong with questions. Questions unanswered can turn into doubts and doubts can turn into unbelief.

Just so we know exactly what contradiction are you referring to. If you could post the example and I or others will explain.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

The Bible is the inspired word of God. We expect it to be trustworthy. You can find websites with 100s of so called errors or contradictions. But I haven't found one yet that holds water.

A recent one I had to explain was verses that seem to imply the Earth doesn't move as in the sun revolves around the Earth. People call those verses a contradiction to the reality of Earths rotation.

 

[Dibby53]

First you say you do not know and then you say you know that both accounts cannot be right that they both cannot be true...

That statement sir is contradictory in the extreme.. Either you know this or you do not know this.. And if you don't know this you cannot make such an accusation.. Why don't you come down firmly and state what you believe on the matter and state that you know it?

Of course i believe Both are True..

I don't know because they say 2 different things. How do I know which is true? I do not know which of the scenarios for his death is true. I don't know how I can be any plainer? In a court of law the coroner judge would have to decide on the cause of death. If they have 2 causes then they must judge which is most likely. The judge wouldnt start by saying that both accounts are infallible therefore they must both be right!

 

[Dibby53]

The Bible is the inspired word of God. We expect it to be trustworthy. You can find websites with 100s of so called errors or contradictions. But I haven't found one yet that holds water.

A recent one I had to explain was verses that seem to imply the Earth doesn't move as in the sun revolves around the Earth. People call those verses a contradiction to the reality of Earths rotation.

Hi Roughsoul
Here is another difference: the genealogies of Joseph, Mary's husband, are completely different in Matthew and Luke. At the end Joseph appears to have 2 fathers! Matt1:16 says that Jacob begat Joseph. In Luke3:23 it states that Joseph was the son of Heli. Heli's father is Matthat in Luke, but Matthan in Matthew. Eleazer is great grandfather in Matthew 1 but Levi in Luke 3..
The writers go to alot of trouble to explain Joseph's lineage... but pointlessly, since Jesus father is God. I have no problem with this since I,m not an inerrantist. But if you are ( I don't know your position, so wouldn't presume) then there is alot of explaining to do.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I don't know because they say 2 different things. How do I know which is true? I do not know which of the scenarios for his death is true. I don't know how I can be any plainer? In a court of law the coroner judge would have to decide on the cause of death. If they have 2 causes then they must judge which is most likely. The judge wouldnt start by saying that both accounts are infallible therefore they must both be right!

https://answersingenesis.org/contradictions-in-the-bible/how-did-judas-die

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Hi Roughsoul
Here is another difference: the genealogies of Joseph, Mary's husband, are completely different in Matthew and Luke. At the end Joseph appears to have 2 fathers! Matt1:16 says that Jacob begat Joseph. In Luke3:23 it states that Joseph was the son of Heli. Heli's father is Matthat in Luke, but Matthan in Matthew. Eleazer is great grandfather in Matthew 1 but Levi in Luke 3..
The writers go to alot of trouble to explain Joseph's lineage... but pointlessly, since Jesus father is God. I have no problem with this since I,m not an inerrantist. But if you are ( I don't know your position, so wouldn't presume) then there is alot of explaining to do.

https://www.learnreligions.com/genealogy-of-jesus-700161

Maybe these two links will shed some light on these two and increase your trust in the Word.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Hi Roughsoul
Here is another difference: the genealogies of Joseph, Mary's husband, are completely different in Matthew and Luke. At the end Joseph appears to have 2 fathers! Matt1:16 says that Jacob begat Joseph. In Luke3:23 it states that Joseph was the son of Heli. Heli's father is Matthat in Luke, but Matthan in Matthew. Eleazer is great grandfather in Matthew 1 but Levi in Luke 3..
The writers go to alot of trouble to explain Joseph's lineage... but pointlessly, since Jesus father is God. I have no problem with this since I,m not an inerrantist. But if you are ( I don't know your position, so wouldn't presume) then there is alot of explaining to do.

If you view the Bible is full of errors then how do you trust it? The only known errors are translation errors. But we know what those are due to textual criticism. Most are one word differences like it adding or subtracting a word or like the paragraph at the end of Mark. But we know the differences so technically the scribes differences are known and we know still what the original wording was.

 

[Dibby53]

if i say A and you say B how can we know who is right without infallible scriptures? if its inspired by Holy Spirit but still contains errors.... is it from Holy Spirit? how is Holy Spirit different from me then? i make mistakes. please answer me: are you a roman catholic yes or no?

I am not a roman catholic.....more a believer in exile! Something can be inspired without being a absolutely perfect. Shakespeare is incredibly inspiring. Scriptures are an incredible record of different people over time as they experienced God. I don't know if when they were writing they thought that what they wrote would end up in a Bible. That developed over time. If it is all infallible then you kind of have to defend the indefensible. For example, the mass muder of men women and children as Israel conquered the holy land; repulsive actions. This shows the danger to me of fanatacism. Or was it all allegorical, a metphor for the journey of the soul? A jewish scholar probably could enlighten us more. What does archaeology say (for instance, professor Israel Finkelstein has done much research in this area)? So to me ( not being an inerrantist) I,m not forced to say, "well God wrote it, so it must be ok to murder people in certain situations". I use reason, contemplation and yes, prayer and meditation to get to the real meaning for me. I can then share with others and see if they resonate with my discoveries.

 

[Hevosmies]

I am not a roman catholic.....more a believer in exile! Something can be inspired without being a absolutely perfect. Shakespeare is incredibly inspiring. Scriptures are an incredible record of different people over time as they experienced God. I don't know if when they were writing they thought that what they wrote would end up in a Bible. That developed over time. If it is all infallible then you kind of have to defend the indefensible. For example, the mass muder of men women as Israel conquered the holy land; repulsive actions. This shows the danger to me of fanatacism. Or was it all allegorical, a metphor for the journey of the soul? A jewish scholar probably could enlighten us more. What does archaeology say (for instance, professor Israel Finkelstein has done much research in this area)? So to me ( not being an inerrantist) I,m not forced to say, "well God wrote it, so it must be ok to murder people in certain situations". I use reason, contemplation and yes, prayer and meditation to get to the real meaning for me. I can then share with others and see if they resonate with my discoveries.

Sounds like you are just trying to explain away the plain truth of the Bible with modern lenses of whats considered "civil". Israel taking out the pagans is a metaphor for journey of the soul? Bwahahaha! THATS A NEW ONE.

You cant handle God! You just cant. That tells me you got some problems right there. Toughen up! God indeed commanded the israelites to WIPE AWAY those nations, AMEN buddy. And guess what, one of these days the LORD Jesus HIMSELF will return and wipe people out PERSONALLY. Take a good look at that in the book of Revelation.

If you deny the OT as literal and think its just some allegories then you are on a slippery slope! This soft liberal attitude of, "ooh no, God took some people out, no way, my heavenly daddy loves people God would never do that, its never right to take a life in any circumstances" <- Tells me you aint lived enough. Try telling that to someone who has a burglar come to their house at night, ANY MAN worth his weight in salt will DEFEND his family against any threats.
Try telling that to someone locked up in pelican bay, WONT WORK, you gotta follow the politics if you want to remain General population and walk the yard!

What you're trying to preach just isnt realistic, LIFE IS TOUGH and sometimes drastic measures are taken by God take a look at Noah's flood, or is that also a metaphor?

You are not contemplating, meditating and praying, you are instead inventing, re-interpreting and twisting what God said to fit your 21st century SOFT mind thats been infiltrated by "civilized society" propaganda and humanist values. No go! I forbid you from believing this nonsense. Return to the Bible truth AT ONCE.

The Bible is either God's word, inspired by the Holy Ghost with NO ERRORS and you believe it AS IS, or you dont, and if you dont, STOP QUOTING IT. Looks like your beliefs line up more with buddhism than Christianity. Only the LORD GOD Himself can reach down to your soul and open your eyes to the truth I CANT do that. All I can do is POP OFF and write in a harsh manner so that the OTHERS reading wont be deceived!!