We both agree that Jesus and Paul taught different gospels, but I believe Paul preached new doctrines (revealed to him by the risen Jesus) and you think he preached a false gospel. Since you don't acknowledge Paul as an apostle, and therefore your only interest is to prove that the law of Moses is still in force,
What you said "
therefore your only interest is to prove that the law of Moses is still in force"
No, just because you put words and ideas into my mouth, assingin them to me does not make the mtrue. That is a very very dishonest form of discussion/debate.
Look at my user name. Look at my posts from my own desire, not when defending. My interest is in following the Shepherd in truth.
2 John 1:9-11, " 9
Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works."
I am shocked that so many Christians believe following Jesus is wrong, this is unreal.
I'll use Jesus' words to demonstrate that the Law is no longer in effect.
till heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or one tittle will pass from the law till all is fulfilled
SO you post "till haven and earth pass" Has that happened yet? It will happen, but not yet.
Revelation 21:1-2, " 1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, f
or the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."
Has the 2nd coming of Jesus been fulfilled? No?
Then this proves the exact oppisite of what you say.
Is there a single creature on earth who keeps all 613 ordinances of the law of Moses?
How do peoples obedience have ANYTHING to do with if rules are still valid or not?
None are sinless, some were obedient.
Genesis 26:5 because
Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.”
Luke 1:5-6, " 5 In the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zechariah, of the division of Abijah. And he had a wife from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. 6 And
they were both righteous before God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and statutes of the Lord."
Since these people sinned how could they be "
kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws" and "
they were both righteous before God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and statutes of the Lord"
If you let the word intrepret the word you will see.
Ezekiel 18:20-24, " 20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. 21 “But
if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22 None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live? 24 But
when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die."
Remember this:
Genesis 22:7-8, " 7 And Isaac said to his father Abraham, “My father!” And he said, “Here I am, my son.” He said, “Behold, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?” 8 Abraham said, “God will provide for himself the lamb for a burnt offering, my son.” So they went both of them together.
I have never heard of anyone who even attempts to keep all 613 Mitzvot; not even religious Jews do that. The zealots of the Law use an intricate "theology" to separate effective ordinances from obsolete ones and this "theology" is by no means approved by God.
Religious Jews have made their own law that hey say superseeds the torah. So that is not even having anything to do with what im saying.
Ok so about the zealots!
there are some laws about womens menstural cycle, that is not for men to keep.
There are some laws only for the high priest, that is not for anyone to keep other than the high priest.
Other than these type of instances all laws apply IMO.
This is not false doctrine this is EXACTLY what the word says.
The law of Moses was designed for a specific nation and for a specific period of time. Today it is impossible to keep all the ordinances of the law of Moses and that means ALL has already been fulfilled.
SO the law was only valid insode the physical borders of Israel, so what if they left the counttry they could sin?
So Jesus said "when the temple is demolished the law is gone" I missed that verse.
Marcelo, you are just making things up now, this is nonsense you said "Today it is impossible to keep all the ordinances of the law of Moses and that means
ALL has already been fulfilled."
Jesus was clear:
Matthew 5:17-18, " 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you,
until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law
until all is accomplished.
again heaven and earth has not passed and Jesus 2nd coming is not yet fulfilled.
With all that said, sert the law asode for a second.
The most important thing, that you told me im wrong on; is that we FOLLOW JESUS, that is what matters.
John 14:23-26, " 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me. 25 “
These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
John 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow
My words has One Who judges him.
The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”
John 13:15, “For I (
Jesus) gave you an example, that
you should do as I have done to you.”
1 Peter 2:21, “This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because Christ also suffered for you and left an example for you to
follow in His steps.”
1 John 1:26, “The one who says that he abides in him
must live the same way he (Jesus) himself lived.”