Child poverty

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
T

tasha66

Guest
#21
Child poverty is everyone's business.
Poverty can be classed as child cruelty.
I'm in a country & a profession where we MUST report any sort of child cruelty, neglect, etc so I'm probably biased to some degree (this is called mandatory reporting).
But if you see/hear of etc a child being abused, or a child who is obviously emaciated, has been abused - whatever - you should report it to the police & the correct authorities immediately.
If we ignore it, we are as bad as the abusers.
The issue of global child poverty (and poverty in general) is a tough one. I think that all countries could do more, and most countries do help, but funding & food supplies for example don't get through due to war & nobody caring about what happens to the kids.
We can only pray & try to support the many welfare funds that help children I guess.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#22
Hmm just wondering about what they call the slimmers disease...anorexia. Usually this self induced starvation is to get parents attention...but tends to happen with adult children or teens rather than children (how do we define children, anyone under 13?) and they are usually middle class or well-off people.
Conversely bulimia or binge eating can be a symptom of emotional neglect. Apprently many eat for comfort because of Emotional issues.

Neglect is harder to pinpont than outright abuse because the scars arent so visible.

Another thing is parents may not even be aware of the ways they harm their children. For example some parents agree to divorce and think its best, but they dont care how it affects their children. Or one runs off and has an affair, commits adutlery or even remarries. The children left behind have to deal with the fall out, and its not as if their parents died and cant look after them anymore. They actually chose to leave and abandon their own children.
 
T

tasha66

Guest
#23
Hmm just wondering about what they call the slimmers disease...anorexia. Usually this self induced starvation is to get parents attention...but tends to happen with adult children or teens rather than children (how do we define children, anyone under 13?) and they are usually middle class or well-off people.
Conversely bulimia or binge eating can be a symptom of emotional neglect. Apprently many eat for comfort because of Emotional issues.

Neglect is harder to pinpont that outright abuse because the scars arent so visible
I've worked with many, many, MANY people with eating disorders - they can be very old, middle aged or extremely young. It affects both men, women and children of both sexes now. The reasons are varied & complex, to say the least. We still don't understand many aspects of the brain & mental health.
I could truly write whole books on this subject, & the things I've seen / heard / experienced. And it's very sad to say the least, especially when you walk into work after a 3 day break and find your lovely client has died from anorexia nervosa :(
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#24
I read this memoir by .anh Do called the happiest refugee. He escaped Vietnam to a life in Australia as a young boy of 2. Of course their family was poor in the beginning like every other refugee or immigrant family, had nothing but the clothes on their backs (or not even that). But that did not matter to Anh, what really made him feel poor and angry was that his dad abandoned the family when he was 13, so his mother had to cope on her own, raise enough money to feed clothe and school two boys.

However she did it...and today anh and his brother are succesful australian citizens.

From reading this memoir its more abou what goes on with the family rather than being poor. A family with two parents can be poor together and they will have each other. But I think single parent families are the poorest of any. Often will fall to the mother to work and clothe and feed, while the dad is nowhere to be found. This kinda makes me angry, that so many men just abdicate responisbility.

In some countries its the women that do all the hard work while the men laze around doing nothing at all.
 
Oct 7, 2019
20
23
3
#25
What to do about it?
I just wondered if anyone had any ideas about it.

Maybe start with basics, food and shelter. Why are some children going hungry, or cold? I dont believe parents want to deliberately starve their children or not keep them warm. Is it bad parenting, or is it to do with just not being able to provide. Or is it more to do with solo parents, as two parents can manage better than a solo parent, even if the two parents are poor.

Why is there such a gap between rich and poor these days. Can policy change things, or must we accept that is the way things are. Why should children be born into this, when they have no choice? Do rich people have any responsibility to look after those less well off?
For myself I was thrown into being a single parent on a salary that was intended to be the 2nd income, not the breadwinner salary. But I made too much money to have a a food card; my kids had medicaid but I had such a big spend down I couldn't afford to take care of myself. Yet I could not afford the insurance where I worked.

We have a lot of families in the city where I live that are single parent families, and when school is out the kids don't get free breakfast and lunch, so during the summer there are fundraisers to help those families. As in my case a lot of the mothers make too much for a food card but not enough to provide well.

I've met a lot of people with more than enough that think it's the fault of the poor person that they are in that situation and maybe they should work two or three jobs to make ends meet. It's not that easy. I wish I knew what the answer is and why do some people have so much and others don't. Some people are not good parents of course, and others would go without eating to make sure their children have enough, which I have had to do at times.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#26
In affuent countries, maybe people think it is easier to be a single parent, I dont know.

In my country my generation we never got free lunch at school, everyone brings their own, although now theyve started to offer free milk and possibly lunch for the next generation.

So how much do single parents need to make, and why arent they on the widows benefit. If the spouse has abandoned them dont they need to pay child support or alimony? Or is this only if they were married, some people just dont marry and still have children anyway.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#27
What about growing your own food or isnt that possible. People that dont own land and are renting or leasing could still grow a garden although they might not be able to plant anything permanent, or maybe just have food in pots.

I think there has always been inqualities but this is where the rich can help the poor. In a captialist society what tends to happen is the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. So in some ways communism does work, but there are of course regimes where it doesnt cos someone always abuses their power.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#28
This verse comes to mind 1 timothy 5:8

Its weird how theres almost complete silence about the number of infidels in our country. If youve abandoned your children, and left your wife to starve you are actually WORSE than an infidel.
 
T

tasha66

Guest
#29
What about growing your own food or isnt that possible. People that dont own land and are renting or leasing could still grow a garden although they might not be able to plant anything permanent, or maybe just have food in pots.

I think there has always been inqualities but this is where the rich can help the poor. In a captialist society what tends to happen is the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. So in some ways communism does work, but there are of course regimes where it doesnt cos someone always abuses their power.
Lan, I was thinking of starting a thread for hints & tips to save money. When my Mum was younger (many moons ago!) everyone looked out for each other, & you only gave what you could. If someone lost their job, which was unusual in my Mum's day, you all helped out by giving food/meals or whatever you could.
I think there is a terrible blase attitude today, or maybe it is fear not helping out your neighbour - I don't know. all I know is that as a single woman, I'm always careful with people & keep myself safe.
It's a scary world out there when you're a single wee lassie - but I'm not so wee these days, lol! ;)
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#30
Loan sharks....before credit cards if you didnt have any money you just went without.

Its wrong according to the Bible to charge interest. Called usury. You give and dont expect anything in return thats why its a gift, not a trade. Although a thank you will not go amiss.

If you do lend money you need to have some sort of collatoral, in the Bible it was your clothes.
I see a lot of people spend money on useless things, then complain about them. If people spent money on the essentials like food and shelter they can actually make do without everything else. God does say with food and clothing we are to be content.

So not sure why children are going without clothes and food. What could the other expenses be...ive memoirs books about poor irish children (angelas ashes, etc) and poor americans (the glass castle, hillbilly elegy) and in all cases it was either one parent or both on the booze.

Ive also read memoirs of rich well off children but their parents are also addicts so they are emotionally deprived. Unless they have a nanny or something.
 
T

tasha66

Guest
#31
Oh Lan...the stories I could tell you & every body else about child abuse & poverty. I see the effects from this all the time at my work. And yes, people do waste alot of money on c**p they don't need. Using credit cards for non major purchases & 'buy now, pay later' purchases are the worst.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#32
What to do about it? I just wondered if anyone had any ideas about it.
1. Child poverty cannot be segregated from parental poverty (unless the children are orphans). And parental poverty cannot be segregated from the underlying reasons for any city, or county, or country to be poor. The poorest countries are also the ones wasting money on useless warfare, and having evil dictators rob their countries blind.

2. There is more than enough wealth in every nation to provide every citizen with the minimum for survival (if not much more). So poverty is not a result of lack of resources but how resources are applied (or wasted or stolen) in an economy, particularly by governments. While private greed is a spiritual problem, mismanagement of public resources can make a difference as to whether a city thrives or goes down the drain.

3. The majority of governments are stealing from taxpayers and wasting the money taken in as taxes. For example. there should be no income tax on income below $50,000 per annum, nor on hard-earned savings. There should be no sales tax of fuel, which is an essential (along with other necessities).

4. Although this will never happen, spending decisions should be taken out of the hands of self-serving politicians altogether, and given to independent bodies whose sole business is to manage taxpayer funds responsibly, so that spending is always within budget, and there is no public debt whatsoever. [Note: I managed almost two dozen large condominium and rental properties for many years, and generally we were always within budget. I did the budgeting as well as the day-to-day management of resources].

5. Government expenditures should be restricted severely to cover only infrastructure, utilities, public safety, national security, administration of justice, disaster relief, veteran relief, and the management of public lands. All other programs should be run by the private sector. And there should be a waste elimination task force for every level of government. It is entirely possible that at least 30% of all resources are being wasted. What is invested in military expenditures should be watched carefully. And all foreign aid should be immediately cut off, since it has never benefited the neediest.

6. One of the government expenditure items should be for poverty elimination -- carefully assisting those with incomes below a certain threshold to obtain reasonable housing, jobs, child care, as well as employment training and eventually decent jobs. Those who are helped to become steady wage-earners will address their own poverty, and their children will not suffer. And if the government does not steal their wealth through taxes and artificial inflation, they will prosper.

7. All welfare recipients must be asked to earn their income (unless disabled), which means that real jobs (and training) should also be available. No one should sit around and collect welfare. The goal of any kind of welfare assistance must be to put people into productive jobs and out of welfare. At the same time welfare should not allow people to take money and waste it on drugs, alcohol, tobacco, or any non-essential items and frivolous items.

8. There must be a reasonable ceiling on the salaries of government employees and politicians, and they should not be given lavish publicly funded pensions at all. They all should be required to have their own pension plans, life insurance, etc.

9. There should be a flat income tax of ten percent of the gross income of an individual or business (including major corporations) with absolutely no tax breaks, deductions, or exemptions. But severe penalties for failure to pay the fair share of taxes. This would eliminate any kind of *tax code* and keep things simple and efficient. This would also generate more than enough income to cover all expenditures. The more money people have in their pockets, the more they have to put back into the economy or into investments.

10. Every employer must be required to set up a pension fund for every employee (which must be invested properly to give a return of at least 5% tax-free). Governments should be excluded from social security management, since they habitually mismanage funds. But employers and self-employed people should be required to have pension plans.

11. Christian churches should focus on food banks, widows, orphans, and the disabled, to ensure that these groups are allowed to live in dignity while receiving Bibles and Gospel tracts.

12. Politicians should be expected to be productive or be fired for wasting their time and public resources. Most of them would be fired from regular jobs. What goes for government today is a farce, and little or nothing productive is done. Which means that there is a fundamental flaw in the meaning of government (which really should be governance). Government should no longer be bogged down in unnecessary legislation when effective administration is the actual issue. The War on Poverty was a bust, and so was the War on Drugs. As for the justice systems, they should rightly be called the injustice systems.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#33
I had thought that debt was a big factor in why people (and whole countries) are poor, because even if people are working, they can work their whole lives and never repay that debt. And then theres inflation and interest.

And thats linked to the world bank, federal reserve, IMF who randomly set the exchange rates. Somehow its all rigged to favour a select group, who can make money out of thin air, to lend, or convince others they need this loan which subsequently they can never repay.

In the big picture scheme of things. The borrower is servant to the lender. But it not like borrowing books from the library, or if it its a sadistic one thats says if you lose a book and the library charges you with interest the longer you take to bring back a book and bans you from ever borrowing again.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#34
Im reading this book about Madeleine mccann, who went missing 2007 and still hasnt been found. Apparently she was abducted, as a man was witnessed taking her from the apartment she was sleeping in with her siblings while the parents were having dinner at the resort they were staying in on holiday in Portugal. She was 3 and a half years old at the time.

Anyway her parents were well off, being both doctors, but, and this is not unusual amongst well off parents or maybe its just british parents - why were they not watching their children?! They thought nothing of leaving them alone in a hotel aprtment while they went off and had dinner with other couples, yes they went and checked every half hour but still...and they did this every night, put their childrent to bed and then left them to socialise. And during the day, they went off and played tennis and left their children in childcare, the kids clubs practically all day. No wonder someone thought well these parents dont even care for their children I can easily take them.

Its illegal in nz to even leave your child at home, alone if they are under 14. And for children that young (the twins were 2) even if they are sleeping, you dont just leave them, I mean what do you do if they wake up and cry for you and you not around? You are not within earshot or viewing distance how can you help them. Or even know whats going on?! Thats neglect!

And that happned to me when I was 2 and that was the most terrifying thing to cry, be in The dark, alone and abandoned and nobody come to comfort you. It was so traumatic that it kind of scarred my entire childhood.

Maybe mccanns parents didnt think of this and were naive, subsequently they were even suspected of worse things which werent true, but they had unwittingly put not just madeleine in harms way but her siblings too.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#35
The mccanns case has me puzzled.
I do wonder how exactly she disappeared and why. Reading her mothers memoir a telling moment is the last book she had shared with her mother was 'the princess and the pauper'
In that story a princess swaps places with a pauper and vice versa. I think if theres any justice in the world that the mccanns consider adopting an orphans whos parents abandoned them or unable to care for them and give him or her a life that madeleine may have had (they were so well off, they had multiple holidays all the time) rather than spend all this money trying to locate her and on litigation.

I mean really, I am dismayed at their attitude. They are both doctors and ought to know a few things about parenthood than us regular people who dont earn so much that we cant even afford weeklong holidays in fancy resorts where you play tennis all day and eat out every single night.
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
63
28
#36
Blessed are those who worked hard for their money for they do not have to share.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#37
Madeleine was an IVF baby as well as her siblings who were twins so they likely spend thousands on fertility treatments. They are expensive.

There are people who work really hard and they get hardly any money to feed their family and then there are people who just sit on their butt and earn over ten times more and only spend it on themselves. Crazy.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#38
Average cost of IVF - $11,700-$17,000 for one cycle of treatment. Have heard of some celebs doing it about 17 times. Failed each time. One finally adopted a child and they were FREE becaus ethat child needed a home.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#39
I had a grandmother tell me her daughter had all these fertility treatments costing thousands of dollars and they all failed, they stopped them and then ahe fell pregnant naturally. I asked well does she get her money back if they failed? She said no...so someones getting rich....?!

I suspect they purposely make them dont work the first time so that they can make a buck on peoples hopes.
 
T

tasha66

Guest
#40
Im reading this book about Madeleine mccann, who went missing 2007 and still hasnt been found. Apparently she was abducted, as a man was witnessed taking her from the apartment she was sleeping in with her siblings while the parents were having dinner at the resort they were staying in on holiday in Portugal. She was 3 and a half years old at the time.

Anyway her parents were well off, being both doctors, but, and this is not unusual amongst well off parents or maybe its just british parents - why were they not watching their children?! They thought nothing of leaving them alone in a hotel aprtment while they went off and had dinner with other couples, yes they went and checked every half hour but still...and they did this every night, put their childrent to bed and then left them to socialise. And during the day, they went off and played tennis and left their children in childcare, the kids clubs practically all day. No wonder someone thought well these parents dont even care for their children I can easily take them. Its illegal in nz to even leave your child at home, alone if they are under 14. And for children that young (the twins were 2) even if they are sleeping, you dont just leave them, I mean what do you do if they wake up and cry for you and you not around? You are not within earshot or viewing distance how can you help them. Or even know whats going on?! Thats neglect! And that happned to me when I was 2 and that was the most terrifying thing to cry, be in The dark, alone and abandoned and nobody come to comfort you. It was so traumatic that it kind of scarred my entire childhood. Maybe mccanns parents didnt think of this and were naive, subsequently they were even suspected of worse things which werent true, but they had unwittingly put not just madeleine in harms way but her siblings too.
I haven't read Mrs McCann's book, though I've seen the news reports & other stuff on the internet. For two people who were doctors, they were very irresponsible. I think because they had been to several other resorts, and had friends who went there, they all did the same with their kids to give the adults some time to themselves. They left the kids sleeping not far from where they were and just checked on them from time to time. This system had apparently worked well for them - until the day Madeleine disappeared. If there's one thing I've learned caring for kids is that you rarely get time to yourself, and you shouldn't expect it if you have kids, or if they come along unplanned. Mrs McCann and her hubby got lazy I guess, thinking everything was OK & nothing had happened before. I guess they just made a terrible mistake.
I thought they were questioning a person who worked at the resort re a paedophile ring? I remember reading / seeing something about it not too long ago.
For all anyone knows she could still be alive, or have been brainwashed, or simply forgotten her parents. She was quite young. It has been known to happen and it's easy to convince kids of stuff. There was a girl who was abducted from her house in the US, Elizabeth someone, she was brainwashed & had many chances to escape, but didn't. Madeleine could've been given mind altering drugs for all anyone knows.
My friend was from South Africa - they left due to all the violence going on. Her daughter was young, thin & blonde haired, & she nearly got abducted one day from a shopping centre. Luckily it didn't happen & my friend said that there are many countries that prize blonde-haired, blue-eyed children, especially girls. I shudder to think what might have happened to Madeleine.
I pray that she is re-united with her family one day.