UNSAVED/UNSURE

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p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,693
6,884
113
#1
THE UNSAVED/THE UNSURE
PREFACE:

We all know that we are to love our enemies, and show Christian kindness to all peoples.
Matthew, Chapter 5:
44) But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45) That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Galatians, Chapter 6:
9)And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
10) As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

However, this does not require us to marry, abide with, or fellowship with the unsaved/unsure.
HYPOTIISIS:

The unsaved and the unsure are both lost with regards to salvation, for neither has repented, and accepted Jesus Christ into their lives as Lord and Savior.

DISCUSSION:

The unsaved. Scripture speaks directly about how we should/should not enteract with the unsaved
.
2 Corinthians, Chapter 6:
14) Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15) And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17) Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18) And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

1 Corinthians, Chapter 5:
9) I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10) Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11) But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12) For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13) But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Ephesians, Chapter 5:
5) For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6) Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7) Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8) For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9) (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;
10) Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11) And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12) For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13) But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14) Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
15) See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,

Given that this is how Scripture tells us to think/act regarding the unsaved, should we act any differently with those who are "unsure?" (IMO) The unsaved are those who make no pretense about being saved, believing in Jesus Christ, or, even believing in God Himself. The unsure appear to me to be a group of peoples who might believe in God, might believe in Jesus, and might be seeking to find Him/themselves. I suspect agnostics would fit nicely in this category.
However, in my opinion only possibly, these peoples are also lost with regards to salvation, for they do not fully believe that Jesus is Christ and Lord, that God is the Almighty Father and Creator of all, and have not fully surrendered their lives to Him.

While it is encouraging that they are at least asking/questioning, and may be peoples with a good heart (but how can a heart without Christ be good?), that is not enough to assure them of eternal life. Thus, they too are lost.

Those of us who are saved, know we are! Like the old Hymn says: "Blessed assurance......"

1 John, Chapter 5:
1) Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4) For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5) Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6) This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8) And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
9) If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10) He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11) And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12) He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

QUESTIONS:

1) Do you believe it is possible for someone to be saved and not know it? Personally, I do not, for the reasons stated in the above Scriptures.

2) Do we honor God, and are we being obedient to Him when we marry, abide, and/or fellowship with the unsaved/unsure?

I fully believe we are to testify/witness to them. As Christ stated for us to do in the Gospel of Matthew, and I believe it would be ok to have a meal with them, if the purpose of that meal is to testify/witness to them of Jesus Christ. However, I do not believe we honor God, or are being obedient to His Word when we marry, abide with, or fellowship with the unsaved/unsure. (this is not a question of salvation for us) I also believe that when Christians do this, that is the major reasons their marriages/relationships fail and so much sorrow is experienced.

I, myself, have been guilty of this, and know full well the sorrow and pain a failed relationship can cause when one is unequally yolked with an unbeliever. I also know (from experience) that when one is witnessing to the unsaved/unsure, there comes a time when any conversation becomes useless, and will do more harm than good. The time comes when we need to "come out from them," or to "have no fellowship with them, but reprove them" as Scripture states. This is applicable in the "real world" just as much as it is here in the "cyber world."

2 Timothy, Chapter 2:
14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
2,271
1,429
113
#2
THE UNSAVED/THE UNSURE
PREFACE:

We all know that we are to love our enemies, and show Christian kindness to all peoples.
Matthew, Chapter 5:
44) But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45) That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Galatians, Chapter 6:
9)And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
10) As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

However, this does not require us to marry, abide with, or fellowship with the unsaved/unsure.
HYPOTIISIS:

The unsaved and the unsure are both lost with regards to salvation, for neither has repented, and accepted Jesus Christ into their lives as Lord and Savior.

DISCUSSION:

The unsaved. Scripture speaks directly about how we should/should not enteract with the unsaved
.
2 Corinthians, Chapter 6:
14) Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15) And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17) Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18) And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

1 Corinthians, Chapter 5:
9) I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10) Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11) But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12) For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13) But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Ephesians, Chapter 5:
5) For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6) Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7) Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8) For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9) (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;
10) Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11) And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12) For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13) But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14) Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
15) See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,

Given that this is how Scripture tells us to think/act regarding the unsaved, should we act any differently with those who are "unsure?" (IMO) The unsaved are those who make no pretense about being saved, believing in Jesus Christ, or, even believing in God Himself. The unsure appear to me to be a group of peoples who might believe in God, might believe in Jesus, and might be seeking to find Him/themselves. I suspect agnostics would fit nicely in this category.
However, in my opinion only possibly, these peoples are also lost with regards to salvation, for they do not fully believe that Jesus is Christ and Lord, that God is the Almighty Father and Creator of all, and have not fully surrendered their lives to Him.

While it is encouraging that they are at least asking/questioning, and may be peoples with a good heart (but how can a heart without Christ be good?), that is not enough to assure them of eternal life. Thus, they too are lost.

Those of us who are saved, know we are! Like the old Hymn says: "Blessed assurance......"

1 John, Chapter 5:
1) Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2) By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3) For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4) For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5) Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6) This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8) And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
9) If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10) He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11) And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12) He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.


QUESTIONS:

1) Do you believe it is possible for someone to be saved and not know it? Personally, I do not, for the reasons stated in the above Scriptures.

2) Do we honor God, and are we being obedient to Him when we marry, abide, and/or fellowship with the unsaved/unsure?

I fully believe we are to testify/witness to them. As Christ stated for us to do in the Gospel of Matthew, and I believe it would be ok to have a meal with them, if the purpose of that meal is to testify/witness to them of Jesus Christ. However, I do not believe we honor God, or are being obedient to His Word when we marry, abide with, or fellowship with the unsaved/unsure. (this is not a question of salvation for us) I also believe that when Christians do this, that is the major reasons their marriages/relationships fail and so much sorrow is experienced.

I, myself, have been guilty of this, and know full well the sorrow and pain a failed relationship can cause when one is unequally yolked with an unbeliever. I also know (from experience) that when one is witnessing to the unsaved/unsure, there comes a time when any conversation becomes useless, and will do more harm than good. The time comes when we need to "come out from them," or to "have no fellowship with them, but reprove them" as Scripture states. This is applicable in the "real world" just as much as it is here in the "cyber world."

2 Timothy, Chapter 2:
14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

For the first question, I believe yes because there are plenty of Christians who doubt their own salvation. They have believed on Jesus and received him but even so, some of them still feel unsure of their own salvation.

For the second question I also would say yes, but it also depends on what you are doing. For example, I see nothing wrong with hanging out with people who are not Christians and enjoying their company. However, if for example, you are engaging in something which is clearly wrong and/or illegal activities, then no that is not right. I do not believe it is wrong to marry someone who does not believe. However, when a believer in Christ marries someone who doesn't believe in Christ, there is potential for a lot of conflict in that area especially if both are prone to debate.
 

FollowtheShepherd

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
794
312
63
#3
Are humans saved because they say and/or think they are, or is Jesus the judge of who is saved and who is not?
 

FollowtheShepherd

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
794
312
63
#5
I agree.

John 5:22-23, " 22 “For the Father judges no one, but has given all the judgment to the Son, 23 that all should value the Son even as they value the Father. He who does not value the Son does not value the Father who sent Him.”

John 5:28-29, " 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

John 12:47-48, " 47 If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#6
If you say other people are evil and yourself are holy even by your actions, have you not passed judgement?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,693
6,884
113
#7
My first response is how no one bothered to address the Scriptures provided. It's as if they simply ignored what the Word of God says.

As to the comments:

Matthew, Chapter 7:
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

1 John, Chapter 4;
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

I Corinthians, Chapter 6:
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

John 7:24 - Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Having said this, I also see that none of you who responded understood the meaning of the OP.
If ALL of you are telling me that NO ONE in this world is unsaved, then, goodness..........this is all for naught, as was the shedding of the precious blood of Christ. We do not need to "judge" to know that there are unsaved peoples..........Scripture says so, and, for the love, common sense and life experiences say so.

Again, I return to the Scriptures provided. I would like to see those who commented compare their comments to the Scriptures and explain how the Scriptures are not saying what they are saying.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#8
But are you judging yourself a saint and now judging others?!
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#9
To answer your question, we are supposed to shun sin but we are required to be good to others. Separating ourselves from others is an indicator of pride rather than godliness. Some of these people are family members; we can not just pass judgement and say we have to separate from them.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,693
6,884
113
#10
Are you judging yourself a Saint, and judging me?

You still have not resolved your comments with the Scriptures I provided. I stated in the OP that my thoughts were "based on the Scriptures above."

Can you resolve your comments with the Scriptures provided? Did I not simply state what the Scriptures stated?

One other point. Scripture says "judge not, lest ye be judged." Problem is, that's where most folks quit reading. It goes on to say that the standard we judge others by is the standard we will be judged by. All will stand before the Judgement Seat...……..

If our standard for judging others is the Word of God, what is wrong with that? Will we ourselves not be judged by that same Standard?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,693
6,884
113
#11
From the OP:

QUESTIONS:

1) Do you believe it is possible for someone to be saved and not know it? Personally, I do not, for the reasons stated in the above Scriptures.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,693
6,884
113
#12
But are you judging yourself a saint and now judging others?!
I profess my salvation by the Grace of God through the precious blood of Jesus Christ. Do you not?
That being so, I KNOW I am saved. There is no "unsure" to be questioned.

Did you read the Scriptures I provided? What do they say? Rather than judge me, judge the Scriptures and direct your comments towards them?

This is what Jesus said:

Matthew, Chapter 10:
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,693
6,884
113
#13
For the first question, I believe yes because there are plenty of Christians who doubt their own salvation. They have believed on Jesus and received him but even so, some of them still feel unsure of their own salvation.
Please reconcile that with the Scriptures given from 1 John. Thanks
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,693
6,884
113
#14
However, when a believer in Christ marries someone who doesn't believe in Christ, there is potential for a lot of conflict in that area especially if both are prone to debate.
This is what I said in the OP.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,693
6,884
113
#15
For the second question I also would say yes, but it also depends on what you are doing. For example, I see nothing wrong with hanging out with people who are not Christians and enjoying their company. However, if for example, you are engaging in something which is clearly wrong and/or illegal activities, then no that is not right.
Please reconcile this with what the Scriptures found in 1 and 2 Corinthians, and Ephesians say (provided above)
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#16
I hope that i'll be victorious in the end.

I read the scriptures you provided but do they mean that a believer separates themselves from others?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#17
It is very unlikely that anyone could be saved and not know it. The change from unsaved to saved is simply too dynamic. There are many who think themselves saved and are not. The idea of someone being saved and not knowing it could be accommodated in Calvinism but not in born again Christianity.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#18
Are you judging yourself a Saint, and judging me?

You still have not resolved your comments with the Scriptures I provided. I stated in the OP that my thoughts were "based on the Scriptures above."

Can you resolve your comments with the Scriptures provided? Did I not simply state what the Scriptures stated?

One other point. Scripture says "judge not, lest ye be judged." Problem is, that's where most folks quit reading. It goes on to say that the standard we judge others by is the standard we will be judged by. All will stand before the Judgement Seat...……..

If our standard for judging others is the Word of God, what is wrong with that? Will we ourselves not be judged by that same Standard?
No, i'm judging myself unworthy to judge others.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#19
From the OP:

QUESTIONS:

1) Do you believe it is possible for someone to be saved and not know it?
These people seem not to know until they were told.

Matt 25:
31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#20
Unsure, are not all people who think salvation can be lost unsure? How can they be sure? How can they know beyond a reasonable doubt in the end, their end will be what they hope for (eternal life) they can’t

yet at the same token, there are people who have been saved, yet struggle with sin, and through legalism or satan’s whispering or whatever, question how they could ever have been saved, if they were saved, they certainly would not be doing these things. Yet if they were saved, god says they are saved. So even though they may be unsure, they are still saved

so for question one, it depends, are they unsure because they think god has not finished the work, so they must maintain their salvation, then no, i do not think they are saved, are they unsure because of issues, and wuestion if they were ever saved? Then if they were saved, yes, they still are (eternal life is eternal not donditional)

for question 2. No, we should not intermarry with the unsaved.