Prayer of the Arminian, Charles Spurgeon

[UnitedWithChrist]

It's like all you want is some opportunity to condemn others who are not Calvinists. Do you really hate all who are not Calvinists?

The reformation was not about Calvinism. Calvinism was a response to Arminianism which was seen as Catholicism.

Just because I read his book does not mean I embrace anything beyond the books teaching in light of scripture.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Why would you refer me to a book written by a man who has a defective gospel? He believes that works are not a necessary fruit of salvation, and that the alleged believer can go on in his sin.

The Reformation was about Reformed theology. Reformed theology includes a lot more than just the doctrines of grace (TULIP).

For instance, one of Luther's primary issues with Roman Catholicism was the bondage of the will. Do you not know that this directly relates to the libertarian free will/total depravity issue? Luther and Erasmus continually confronted each other on this issue.

In essence, Luther was Reformed. Calvin systematized the theology, but Luther was right in line with him on almost everything related to the synergism/monergism issue.

And, by the way, I view free-willer theology as being Roman Catholicism lite. There is no pope, and they are not involved many of the peculiar doctrines of Roman Catholicism but in regards to soteriology, there isn't a large degree of difference between Rome and many free-willers today.

 

[notuptome]

Why would you refer me to a book written by a man who has a defective gospel? He believes that works are not a necessary fruit of salvation, and that the alleged believer can go on in his sin.

The Reformation was about Reformed theology. Reformed theology includes a lot more than just the doctrines of grace (TULIP).

For instance, one of Luther's primary issues with Roman Catholicism was the bondage of the will. Do you not know that this directly relates to the libertarian free will/total depravity issue? Luther and Erasmus continually confronted each other on this issue.

In essence, Luther was Reformed. Calvin systematized the theology, but Luther was right in line with him on almost everything related to the synergism/monergism issue.

And, by the way, I view free-willer theology as being Roman Catholicism lite. There is no pope, and they are not involved many of the peculiar doctrines of Roman Catholicism but in regards to soteriology, there isn't a large degree of difference between Rome and many free-willers today.

I will permit you to have your view even if it is wrong. It is of no real consequence to me. I'm quite certain it is of utmost importance to you but that is the limit of its value.

You demonstrate quite clearly that Calvinism is a mean spirited sectarian system. It bears little resemblance to what Jesus taught about the need to be saved, what is required to be saved and whom can be saved.

Mat 13:22

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

It's like all you want is some opportunity to condemn others who are not Calvinists. Do you really hate all who are not Calvinists?

The reformation was not about Calvinism. Calvinism was a response to Arminianism which was seen as Catholicism.

Just because I read his book does not mean I embrace anything beyond the books teaching in light of scripture.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

By the way, you have called me a non-believer so why would you expect anything from me?

Do you really hate Reformed people? It looks like it, and it looks like you are a viper waiting to condemn and accuse Reformed people.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

I will permit you to have your view even if it is wrong. It is of no real consequence to me. I'm quite certain it is of utmost importance to you but that is the limit of its value.

You demonstrate quite clearly that Calvinism is a mean spirited sectarian system. It bears little resemblance to what Jesus taught about the need to be saved, what is required to be saved and whom can be saved.

Mat 13:22

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Hmm..you have called me unsaved, which is pretty mean-spirited.

Yet I haven't used that term to refer to you, to my recollection.

What did Jesus say in Matt 7:1-2?

 

[cv5]

Great message from John MacArthur http://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library

Tough talk here.....
See the last 4 or 5 posted sermons.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Great message from John MacArthur http://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library

Tough talk here.....
See the last 4 or 5 posted sermons.

MacArthur was at the forefront of addressing the heresy of those no-Lordship guys, like Zane Hodges and Robert Wilkin.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Hmm..you have called me unsaved, which is pretty mean-spirited.

Yet I haven't used that term to refer to you, to my recollection.

What did Jesus say in Matt 7:1-2?

You seem to have time to answer Roger's questions. Are my belief's more weird than his? Or is it that you can answer his questions more easily?

 

[notuptome]

Hmm..you have called me unsaved, which is pretty mean-spirited.

Yet I haven't used that term to refer to you, to my recollection.

What did Jesus say in Matt 7:1-2?

I have never said you are unsaved. I have said that election will not save you. I have asked questions about the John 16:8-11 experience that all men must experience when they come to Christ. I have in fact indicated that most Calvinists are in the thorns and unable to grow but not unsaved. Mat 13:22

I have not seen your answer to whether Adam had a choice to sin in the garden. Did Adam choose to sin?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[cv5]

I have never said you are unsaved. I have said that election will not save you. I have asked questions about the John 16:8-11 experience that all men must experience when they come to Christ. I have in fact indicated that most Calvinists are in the thorns and unable to grow but not unsaved. Mat 13:22

I have not seen your answer to whether Adam had a choice to sin in the garden. Did Adam choose to sin?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

"I have said that election will not save you"

You lost me there. Election will ALWAYS save you....eventually. After the call and after you respond in faith. Done and done.

 

[cv5]

I have never said you are unsaved. I have said that election will not save you. I have asked questions about the John 16:8-11 experience that all men must experience when they come to Christ. I have in fact indicated that most Calvinists are in the thorns and unable to grow but not unsaved. Mat 13:22

I have not seen your answer to whether Adam had a choice to sin in the garden. Did Adam choose to sin?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

"I have asked questions about the John 16:8-11 experience that all men must experience when they come to Christ."

John 16:8-11 has equal bearing on both the saved and unsaved. You lost me again.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

MacArthur was at the forefront of addressing the heresy of those no-Lordship guys, like Zane Hodges and Robert Wilkin.

lordship salvation

another non sequitor

it just gets better and betterer

mac is lord over his own domain and wishes to be lord over your life

 

[UnderGrace]

MacArthur was at the forefront of addressing the heresy of those no-Lordship guys, like Zane Hodges and Robert Wilkin.

Spoken like a true grace (Reformed doctrines of grace) proponent.... grace is only grace while Lordship is in place

 

[Nehemiah6]

You lost me there. Election will ALWAYS save you....eventually. After the call and after you respond in faith.

The response in faith (and repentance) is called obedience to the Gospel. Every Calvinist must obey the Gospel as a conscious decision in response to the Gospel. Therefore election does not AUTOMATICALLY guarantee salvation, and because salvation is offered to all, the whole world would be *elect* if all obeyed the Gospel. Therefore Unconditional Election is BOGUS. So is Limited Atonement.

 

[cv5]

Spoken like a true grace (Reformed doctrines of grace) proponent.... grace is only grace while Lordship is in place

Irrelevant. Jesus is Lord should He administer grace or withhold it.

 

[cv5]

The response in faith (and repentance) is called obedience to the Gospel. Every Calvinist must obey the Gospel as a conscious decision in response to the Gospel. Therefore election does not AUTOMATICALLY guarantee salvation, and because salvation is offered to all, the whole world would be *elect* if all obeyed the Gospel. Therefore Unconditional Election is BOGUS. So is Limited Atonement.

Complete rubbish. The foreordained obey and are compelled to do so by the express and determinate and irresistible Will of God Himself. You can't get any more saved than that.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

"I have said that election will not save you"

You lost me there. Election will ALWAYS save you....eventually. After the call and after you respond in faith. Done and done.

no scripture to back that up

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Complete rubbish. The foreordained obey and are compelled to do so by the express and determinate and irresistible Will of God Himself. You can't get any more saved than that.

no scripture to back that up either

does the use of the word 'rubbish' somehow lend itself to authority with your persuasion?

the use of the word 'compelled' is more than a little alarming.

what do we do with even Jesus saying 'not my will but Yours?'

perhaps Jesus was also compelled?

I know of only one single spirit that compels and forces and it is not the Holy Spirit

God tells us to choose from the Old Testament, to the new, whom we will serve

Joshua 24:14-15
Choose Whom You Will Serve
14 “Now therefore fear the Lord and serve him in sincerity and in faithfulness. Put away the gods that your fathers served beyond the River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. 15 And if it is evil in your eyes to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”

Jesus did not die so we would loose our will and become slaves of a god who creates puppets that cannot do anything but obey

 

[Melach]

if the foreordained obey and are compelled to do so, why do they constantly sin still? God does a bad job at making these guys obey. if He can make them obey, make them obey like Jesus not half-way lackluster

hypocrite statements

 

[cv5]

if the foreordained obey and are compelled to do so, why do they constantly sin still? God does a bad job at making these guys obey. if He can make them obey, make them obey like Jesus not half-way lackluster

hypocrite statements

Good grief man Christians today are not without sin or walking in perfection. Not one of the Apostles were either. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus prevails. Furthermore, all those born of God hear His Son Jesus and He shepherds them. Yes there are those who wander but all return to eventual Glorification.

Rom 8:2

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death."

 

[Melach]

Good grief man Christians today are not without sin or walking in perfection. Not one of the Apostles were either. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus prevails. Furthermore, all those born of God hear His Son Jesus and He shepherds them. Yes there are those who wander but all return to eventual Glorification.

Rom 8:2

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death."

i didnt say they were. but they should be if calvinism is true

unless God is doing a real half-*** job.