Not By Works

[Melach]

the bible uses the word obey and obedience. we know that.

so if faith(ing) means obedience. why doesnt john 3:16 and all those verses say " whosoever obeys the Son shall be saved "?
why do they say have faith in, or believe? sounds confusing.

else where bible uses the word obedience so we know that word can be used.

think about it @Noose @limmuwd

 

[Pisteuo]

the bible uses the word obey and obedience. we know that.

so if faith(ing) means obedience. why doesnt john 3:16 and all those verses say " whosoever obeys the Son shall be saved "?
why do they say have faith in, or believe? sounds confusing.

else where bible uses the word obedience so we know that word can be used.

think about it @Noose @limmuwd

Two different words, Faith is Pistis , faithing is pisteuo, obedience is a completely different word. Not even apart of pisteuo or saving Faith.

 

[Pisteuo]

the bible uses the word obey and obedience. we know that.

so if faith(ing) means obedience. why doesnt john 3:16 and all those verses say " whosoever obeys the Son shall be saved "?
why do they say have faith in, or believe? sounds confusing.

else where bible uses the word obedience so we know that word can be used.

think about it @Noose @limmuwd

Pisteuo is simply a verb, an action word. An act, based upon a Belief, sustained by confidence. We fulfill pisteuo hundreds of times in a day. All with specific acts, based upon specific beliefs, sustained by a specific kind of confidence. And they all have different objects of Faith.

The only act of Faith , pisteuo or faithing that's saves is a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

You can faithe into God with acts obedience, and it is legitimate Pisteuo but it is the specific pisteuo that could result in recieving the Spirit of Christ.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Ya I was never a big fan of being approved by " man ". So we as faithers are to be approved by the world? And if the world doesn't approve, there's something wrong with us? Doesn't fit.

And the Father calls us out, draws us to Christ. Not from Christ to the Father.

So then why does the bible say, "NO ONE comes to the Father, except by the Son"??

 

[Pisteuo]

So then why does the bible say, "NO ONE comes to the Father, except by the Son"??

Nobody comes to Christ unless the Father calls them.
It starts by the Father.

 

[VCO]

the bible uses the word obey and obedience. we know that.

so if faith(ing) means obedience. why doesnt john 3:16 and all those verses say " whosoever obeys the Son shall be saved "?
why do they say have faith in, or believe? sounds confusing.

else where bible uses the word obedience so we know that word can be used.

think about it @Noose @limmuwd

Obedience is Spawned by LOVE, in particular the GODLY LOVE HE had the HOLY SPIRIT Pour into our Heart or Human Spirit when we were Born Again.

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 John 5:3 (HCSB)
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden,


ONLY WHEN IT IS DO OUT OF AGAPE LOVE IS IT NOT A BURDEN.

 

[limmuwd]

the bible uses the word obey and obedience. we know that.

so if faith(ing) means obedience. why doesnt john 3:16 and all those verses say " whosoever obeys the Son shall be saved "?
why do they say have faith in, or believe? sounds confusing.

else where bible uses the word obedience so we know that word can be used.

think about it @Noose @limmuwd

We also have "whoever calls upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved" (Acts 2:21) and Jesus' Word that "he who endures to the end shall be saved." (Matt 10:22). Is it either/or, or is it actually both.

If we "neglect so great a salvation" by not "working it out with fear and trembling", we will be found wanting in that Day.
Again, our True faith is only evident to God by what we actually do.

And, yes, we have John 3:16 (which actually doesn't' mention "salvation"), but then we have, concerning Jesus in Hebrews - "having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him" - Heb 5:9) Again, is it either/or, or is it both?

As with a cake recipe, we must use ALL the ingredients to achieve the final end.
So too, we must receive and follow ALL that the Word declares to attain that Goal set before us.

Amen.

 

[Pisteuo]

We also have "whoever calls upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved" (Acts 2:21) and Jesus' Word that "he who endures to the end shall be saved." (Matt 10:22). Is it either/or, or is it actually both.

If we "neglect so great a salvation" by not "working it out with fear and trembling", we will be found wanting in that Day.
Again, our True faith is only evident to God by what we actually do.

And, yes, we have John 3:16 (which actually doesn't' mention "salvation"), but then we have, concerning Jesus in Hebrews - "having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him" - Heb 5:9) Again, is it either/or, or is it both?

As with a cake recipe, we must use ALL the ingredients to achieve the final end.
So too, we must receive and follow ALL that the Word declares to attain that Goal set before us.

Amen.

"His" obedience is the only ingredient that won't ruin the cake.

 

[limmuwd]

"His" obedience is the only ingredient that won't ruin the cake.

Jesus cannot be obedient for us. Jesus cannot repent for us. Jesus cannot overcome for us.
That is an error commonly preached from some pulpits today.

"To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne." - Rev 3:21

He bore His Cross; we must bear our own.

 

[Lightskin]

Lol, I have alot more to support my understanding than just one word, that's all I can expose you to at your current place in the salvation journey.

I’m going to ask you a very direct question and from the heart I truly mean no disrespect. How is it that you actually expect people to believe you regarding the intricacies of one Greek word when you wouldn’t even pass a basic 9th grade English grammar exam?

 

[Pisteuo]

Jesus cannot be obedient for us. Jesus cannot repent for us. Jesus cannot overcome for us.
That is an error commonly preached from some pulpits today.

"To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne." - Rev 3:21

He bore His Cross; we must bear our own.

He can when we surrender our lives to Him, He accepts the surrendered life, and seals His Spirit in the surrendered life. It all becomes Him , by Faith, by pisteuo.

By Faith, specifically faithing or a Continually surrendered life and a life inspired by such surrender is how we overcome. When He is in control.

 

[Pisteuo]

I’m going to ask you a very direct question and from the heart I truly mean no disrespect. How is it that you actually expect people to believe you regarding the intricacies of one Greek word when you wouldn’t even pass a basic 9th grade English grammar exam?

It's my tablet. It's got issues.

 

[Pisteuo]

I’m going to ask you a very direct question and from the heart I truly mean no disrespect. How is it that you actually expect people to believe you regarding the intricacies of one Greek word when you wouldn’t even pass a basic 9th grade English grammar exam?

I thought I was catching most of it, I guess not . Sorry for that. I'm pretty sure I could pass 12th grade grammar.

 

[Pisteuo]

I’m going to ask you a very direct question and from the heart I truly mean no disrespect. How is it that you actually expect people to believe you regarding the intricacies of one Greek word when you wouldn’t even pass a basic 9th grade English grammar exam?

I never meant to put myself at a scholarly level. I'm a retired master Mason, the brick laying kind.

 

[UnderGrace]

The True definition of Repentance, which I have very accurately provided, means to change the mind, reject our sin and actually turn away from it. That is clear Bible.
The easy proof is in the consistent usage throughout the New Testament of the words "Repent" and "Repentance." For in not a single instance in the NT would a mere 'change of mind' fit what Jesus, John or the Apostles taught. Not once.

If I had time, I would expound on the Hebrew understanding of the word "repent" in the passage you mentioned above.

Personally, I will continue to preach 'Repentance" as did Jesus, John, the Prophets and Apostles, exhorting the saints to "turn from their wicked ways."

God's Wisdom and Understanding to all.

The word is understood in context.
Pretty basic concept.

And you have yet to show where "turning from sin" is equivalent to metanoia

 

[UnderGrace]

Jesus cannot be obedient for us. Jesus cannot repent for us. Jesus cannot overcome for us.
That is an error commonly preached from some pulpits today.

"To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne." - Rev 3:21

He bore His Cross; we must bear our own.

Bearing a cross saves no one.

You fail to mention these truths which affirm the completed work of Christ and salvation is a singular event.....

25 Therefore He is also able to save [a]to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
Hebrews 7:25

Having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,
1 Peter 1:23

being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Romans 3:24

 

[UnderGrace]

You don't have to look at everything with an OSAS lenses. Paul doesn't contradict and this chapter doesn't teach works salvation but abiding in Christ. We do not work to attain justification but everyone starts from the point of justification. Only those that abide in Christ till the end will be victorious and this is what it means persevering to the end.

]You don't have to look at everything with an OSAS lenses

Actually you do... that is why your doctrine is completely contradictory.

 

[Lightskin]

P

I never meant to put myself at a scholarly level. I'm a retired master Mason, the brick laying kind.

Much respect. 😎

 

[limmuwd]

Bearing a cross saves no one.

You fail to mention these truths which affirm the completed work of Christ and salvation is a singular event.....

25 Therefore He is also able to save [a]to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
Hebrews 7:25

Having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,
1 Peter 1:23

being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Romans 3:24

Sister, there is no reason to continue this debating. You have your belief and I have mine.
I have no doubt concerning the Word the Lord God has given me to teach.
I must obey what He has commissioned me to do, not concern myself with the understanding of man.

I often feel as one would who might attempt to teach HVAC Psychometrics to a child learning addition and subtraction in the 2nd Grade. (And I know of what I speak, having excelled in the former, as well as having a son learning the latter.)

Peace & Blessings.

 

[PennEd]

Sister, there is no reason to continue this debating. You have your belief and I have mine.
I have no doubt concerning the Word the Lord God has given me to teach.
I must obey what He has commissioned me to do, not concern myself with the understanding of man.

I often feel as one would who might attempt to teach HVAC Psychometrics to a child learning addition and subtraction in the 2nd Grade. (And I know of what I speak, having excelled in the former, as well as having a son learning the latter.)

Peace & Blessings.

“In other words UnderGrace, I’m incredibly brilliant and you have the intellect of a 7 yr old when it comes to understanding the Word. “

I tried not to look, hoping this pride and arrogance would just go away. But alas I am nauseous from it once again.