3 Tactics Calvinists Use Against Non-Calvinists
- Thread starter Whispered
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I love the false piety by those who oppose Reformed theology. They will tell you they don't know why God chose them, as they were deserving of death and hell. And that is the right thought to have, seeing we all deserved eternal damnation away from the presence of God. Yet, in His grace and mercy, He elected a # that no one can #, and He gave them to His Son, who bore their sins upon the cross, propitiating the Father, who is now satisfied with the payment He made for His sheep. They then reject this piety and say that if God chooses to pass over some that He is being unfair. But wait! They just said they had no idea why they would choose them? Yet, if God does not choose everybody without exception, then He is being unfair with those who He chose to pass over. Which is it? It can't be both ways. They can't go around with this false piety and then rail against Him if He chooses to pass over some who are, in no way, under God's obligation to save.
As Dr. James White so correctly stated it, "For grace to be grace, it must be free. If God must offer grace to everyone, then it ceases to be grace and is turned into an obligation.
As Dr. James White so correctly stated it, "For grace to be grace, it must be free. If God must offer grace to everyone, then it ceases to be grace and is turned into an obligation.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Well you said this..."The Trinitarian work is a teaching of Reformed theology." Both reformed and non-reformed believe in the Trinity. They both believe the work of man's salvation(its really God's salvation He wroughts in man) is a Trinitarian effort. This not solely a reformed teaching.
-
1
- Show all
I have known both UWC and SackNAshes for a few years. Both in the forum and outside the forum. I can assure you they are NOT the same person. They don't live in the same state, one is single, one is married, one is disabled, the other is not. Very different backgrounds, too!
What they have in common, is they are avid students of the Bible and have found that Reformed theology is the best way to reconcile Scripture, and also salvation. One came from an IFB background, the other from a cult. But both of them had God touch their lives, and directed them to study the Bible, which resulted in understanding Reformed theology.
This is typical of you. You did the same thing to me, taking my post against all your copy and paste nonsense and saying I had not introduced myself, and I was new, when in fact, I don't have the time to post much, because of working in my PhD in theology, and being active in the Conservative campaign for our election on Monday. I keep in contact with these fine gentlemen outside of CC, because they have helped me so much to understand Reformed theology.
So take your ignorant accusations elsewhere. You are just a newbie, who thinks she knows everything when you don't have a clue who are long time members, let alone theology!
-
1
-
1
-
1
- Show all
U
You have a tendency in trying to designate who the non elect are by their depravity. Be careful, you may be referring to yourself and me also. God has no consideration for the non elect. His consideration is totally upon his children and how he wants them to live their lives as they sojourn here on earth. Just as our earthly fathers do not correct their neighbors children, God does not divinely punish those who are not his.
-
1
- Show all
I would submit neither of you are able to know if you are safe. Or, the "elect" as Reformed Theology and John Calvin defined it.
I wanted to cut this from the full quote so as to make it stand out more.
If ever there was an answer to a prayer said for this thread it has arrived above in the quote box.
Anyone here reading this thread or any thread wherein Reformed Theology is being discussed, or the tenets of Reformed Doctrine are being discussed, or in the case of this thread Calvinism itself, and are seeking Christ and answers to your own prayers, please consider the above quoted remarks as one. The answer to a question that may go like this: Is Calvinism right for me? Is Reformed Theology of God?
I think you'll see by the quote above the answer is a resounding NO!
If you are seeking Christ I suggest you read the Bible. There are many sites on the Net that provide Bible software or free reading on subjects particular to the faith.
The god described in the above quote is not the God of Christianity.
Because this thread addresses Calvinism, I'll share this to further support that observation.
Decretum horribile, is the term John Calvin gave his doctrine called, the Doctrine of Reprobation , aka/ “awe-full decree.”
This was published in Calvin's work Institutes of the Christian Religion, chapter Book 3 chapter 23 section 7
Please be aware that the scriptures in and of themselves as written can be manipulated by those of a mind to sustain any doctrine or idea that comes into the mind of the manipulator so inclined to lead people in that way to destruction.
Imagine if you will a sovereign creator that is all there is, and is all powerful, all knowing, everywhere at the same time, and omnibenevolent. (Eternally kind.)
Now let us go into the steps of what Calvin believed He was not raised in a rich family but he did seem to arrive at a mind set predisposed to elitism. As his doctrine imparts the same ideology and identifies God as in accord. So here goes.
Calvin's god existed when no thing existed at all. Then prior to deciding to begin creation of all that we know as our planet, solar system, universe, galaxy, and so forth, decided first to create human beings in His own image and likeness. Because God creating things is using His own divine being and power to that end. So in essence His creation is made of "god stuff".
Before He creates human beings however, he decides on a most wicked perception for their destiny.
He will create a construct wherein they will fall from their innocence into Total Depravity. Meaning, He would make them totally immoral and incapable of any righteousness or good.
And from that lot of Totally Depraved persons He also pre-decided He would later save some from their condition by interceding on His own behalf to first, bring them into a state of grace. In effect, save them from being Totally Depraved. This way they could receive his second intercession. He'd cause them to have faith in Him. And as such, being none of this was done by those elect, special, persons God would cut out from the whole of Depraved human society, He also meant all this to save those selected one's for their entire lifetime. OSAS, Once Saved Always Saved.
Not to be confused with the actual Christ teaching that is of God and does save those who believe eternally.
Now, what to do with the rest of depraved humanity. God would then let the balance of the non-selected one's perish in their state of Total Depravity, as He pre-planned. And those one's would later suffer in the Hell God would later create to first receive His adversary, Satan, and all of Satan's angels. But then God opened that place to receive those non-selected one's too.
Now remember dear reader, all that was pre-planned, pre-determined, BEFORE God created anything at all.
The saved under that construction of TULIP, had not a thing to do with coming into faith in God. God did it. And for the damned? God did not save them.
If you believe that you have to wonder how you would know you're one of those selected? When you, the totally corrupt, totally depraved, totally immoral being created in the image and likeness of the God that set this whole thing off, are told you have no thing to do with entering into the select state.
What if you think you're elect and really that is just a symptom of your total depravity and ego-centrism?
And being the God that created that construct first created the human race to be what is essentially immoral , evil and soulless, one would wonder what then is the image and likeness of God from whence that sprang?
If that God makes people to have be redeemed, and have faith, what if they act badly? What if they're cruel, mean, vindictive? As people?
Is that the example of being elect? Or is that a characteristic of being Totally Depraved?
How would they to know the difference when they are assured they have no thing to do with any of the change that comes about when God Unconditionally Elects, meaning people have nothing to do with being elected, His chosen ones to save and then make to have faith in him, (Limited Atonement)?
In short, if you meet someone who acts like the devil and yet testify they are Calvinist, you have your answer as to whether or not Joh Calvin's doctrine is truly truly of God.
https://apologeticspress.org/MediaSearch.aspx?search=Calvinism
https://apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?article=5387
What must I do to be truly saved? (Avoid Calvinism) and review these search engine links to see which speaks to you:
Search criteria, how to be saved
I wanted to cut this from the full quote so as to make it stand out more.
If ever there was an answer to a prayer said for this thread it has arrived above in the quote box.
Anyone here reading this thread or any thread wherein Reformed Theology is being discussed, or the tenets of Reformed Doctrine are being discussed, or in the case of this thread Calvinism itself, and are seeking Christ and answers to your own prayers, please consider the above quoted remarks as one. The answer to a question that may go like this: Is Calvinism right for me? Is Reformed Theology of God?
I think you'll see by the quote above the answer is a resounding NO!
If you are seeking Christ I suggest you read the Bible. There are many sites on the Net that provide Bible software or free reading on subjects particular to the faith.
The god described in the above quote is not the God of Christianity.
Because this thread addresses Calvinism, I'll share this to further support that observation.
Decretum horribile, is the term John Calvin gave his doctrine called, the Doctrine of Reprobation , aka/ “awe-full decree.”
This was published in Calvin's work Institutes of the Christian Religion, chapter Book 3 chapter 23 section 7
Please be aware that the scriptures in and of themselves as written can be manipulated by those of a mind to sustain any doctrine or idea that comes into the mind of the manipulator so inclined to lead people in that way to destruction.
Imagine if you will a sovereign creator that is all there is, and is all powerful, all knowing, everywhere at the same time, and omnibenevolent. (Eternally kind.)
Now let us go into the steps of what Calvin believed He was not raised in a rich family but he did seem to arrive at a mind set predisposed to elitism. As his doctrine imparts the same ideology and identifies God as in accord. So here goes.
Calvin's god existed when no thing existed at all. Then prior to deciding to begin creation of all that we know as our planet, solar system, universe, galaxy, and so forth, decided first to create human beings in His own image and likeness. Because God creating things is using His own divine being and power to that end. So in essence His creation is made of "god stuff".
Before He creates human beings however, he decides on a most wicked perception for their destiny.
He will create a construct wherein they will fall from their innocence into Total Depravity. Meaning, He would make them totally immoral and incapable of any righteousness or good.
And from that lot of Totally Depraved persons He also pre-decided He would later save some from their condition by interceding on His own behalf to first, bring them into a state of grace. In effect, save them from being Totally Depraved. This way they could receive his second intercession. He'd cause them to have faith in Him. And as such, being none of this was done by those elect, special, persons God would cut out from the whole of Depraved human society, He also meant all this to save those selected one's for their entire lifetime. OSAS, Once Saved Always Saved.
Not to be confused with the actual Christ teaching that is of God and does save those who believe eternally.
Now, what to do with the rest of depraved humanity. God would then let the balance of the non-selected one's perish in their state of Total Depravity, as He pre-planned. And those one's would later suffer in the Hell God would later create to first receive His adversary, Satan, and all of Satan's angels. But then God opened that place to receive those non-selected one's too.
Now remember dear reader, all that was pre-planned, pre-determined, BEFORE God created anything at all.
The saved under that construction of TULIP, had not a thing to do with coming into faith in God. God did it. And for the damned? God did not save them.
If you believe that you have to wonder how you would know you're one of those selected? When you, the totally corrupt, totally depraved, totally immoral being created in the image and likeness of the God that set this whole thing off, are told you have no thing to do with entering into the select state.
What if you think you're elect and really that is just a symptom of your total depravity and ego-centrism?
And being the God that created that construct first created the human race to be what is essentially immoral , evil and soulless, one would wonder what then is the image and likeness of God from whence that sprang?
If that God makes people to have be redeemed, and have faith, what if they act badly? What if they're cruel, mean, vindictive? As people?
Is that the example of being elect? Or is that a characteristic of being Totally Depraved?
How would they to know the difference when they are assured they have no thing to do with any of the change that comes about when God Unconditionally Elects, meaning people have nothing to do with being elected, His chosen ones to save and then make to have faith in him, (Limited Atonement)?
In short, if you meet someone who acts like the devil and yet testify they are Calvinist, you have your answer as to whether or not Joh Calvin's doctrine is truly truly of God.
https://apologeticspress.org/MediaSearch.aspx?search=Calvinism
https://apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?article=5387
What must I do to be truly saved? (Avoid Calvinism) and review these search engine links to see which speaks to you:
Search criteria, how to be saved
-
1
- Show all
Does it make me a super-heretic if I believe all the points are false? 
-
1
-
1
- Show all
7
and yet God most certainly does offer grace to everyone
but nowhere do we concede nor does the Bible state, that all accept
just as you believe you are free to believe Calvin's ideology, so people are free to accept or not the gift of God of salvation through Jesus
oh wait...you actually do not believe you are free
what a conundrum you folks have
as for false piety, you cannot put yourself in the place of judge of the heart for that is God's domain
perhaps if Calvin had not been so judgmental, taking the place of God, lives might have spared and perhaps God may have softened his hard heart to accept the truth rather than the lie of limited atonement
but nowhere do we concede nor does the Bible state, that all accept
just as you believe you are free to believe Calvin's ideology, so people are free to accept or not the gift of God of salvation through Jesus
oh wait...you actually do not believe you are free
what a conundrum you folks have
as for false piety, you cannot put yourself in the place of judge of the heart for that is God's domain
perhaps if Calvin had not been so judgmental, taking the place of God, lives might have spared and perhaps God may have softened his hard heart to accept the truth rather than the lie of limited atonement
-
2
-
1
-
1
- Show all
7
and now with particular attention to the mocking words being used to describe believers...note he says ALL...apart from Calvinism
why would you love what you call the false piety of those opposing Reformed theology? don't you mean those who oppose your particular brand of Reformed theology? let's be honest here
there are literally HUNDREDS of differing Reformed congregations in the US alone that differ to some degree in what they state is their VERSION of Reformed
well huh.
we have the United Church, Episcopals, Anglican, Christian Reformed, Free Reformed, Orthodox Christian Reformed, Heritage Reformed and on and on and on. every single one deciding they knew better than the last one
are they also included in your love of your particular brand of Calvinism?
listen
your sarcastic way of looking down on believers is well documented and here we see that perhaps there is some amount of hypocrisy in what you post since there are just as many break away Reformed believers from hyper Calvinism as from any other doctrine
guess we will just attribute that to a human beings free will and decision making processes
I mean if God tucks you into the fold of Calvinism, having basically forced you through some process that involves no decision making on the behalf of the individual, then why WHY are you not all on the same page?
whoopsie doodle and what do you know
just like everyone else after all and can't deny it
why would you love what you call the false piety of those opposing Reformed theology? don't you mean those who oppose your particular brand of Reformed theology? let's be honest here
there are literally HUNDREDS of differing Reformed congregations in the US alone that differ to some degree in what they state is their VERSION of Reformed
well huh.
we have the United Church, Episcopals, Anglican, Christian Reformed, Free Reformed, Orthodox Christian Reformed, Heritage Reformed and on and on and on. every single one deciding they knew better than the last one
are they also included in your love of your particular brand of Calvinism?
listen
your sarcastic way of looking down on believers is well documented and here we see that perhaps there is some amount of hypocrisy in what you post since there are just as many break away Reformed believers from hyper Calvinism as from any other doctrine
guess we will just attribute that to a human beings free will and decision making processes
I mean if God tucks you into the fold of Calvinism, having basically forced you through some process that involves no decision making on the behalf of the individual, then why WHY are you not all on the same page?
whoopsie doodle and what do you know
just like everyone else after all and can't deny it
-
2
-
1
- Show all
What God really is offering to sinners is salvation BY grace THROUGH faith. Salvation is a free gift that anyone can either receive or reject.
Romans 5:13-16 King James Version (KJV)
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Romans 5:13-16 King James Version (KJV)
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
-
4
- Show all
Does it make me a super-heretic if I believe all the points are false?
Have, SH , embroidered on the back of it. Superman will be so jealous. -
3
- Show all