One being God

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wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#41
Feb 24, 2009
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#41
bluto said:
The Bible makes it clear that there are three and only three persons in the Bible who are IDENTIFIED" as God in all of the ways that the Bible identifies God: by His name, title, unique attributes (or nature), and His unique actions.

For example, the Father is "obviously" idntified as God all over the place, the Son is identifed as God at various places including John 20:28 where Thomas declares the highest form of worship by saying to Jesus Christ Himself literally, "The Lord of me and the God of me." The Holy Spirit is identifed as God at Acts 5:4.

And yet there is only one God. How are they one? They are one in nature just like we are one in nature by being human beings, that is our nature. Jesus Christ has two natures, one on His mothers side, human and one on His Father's side, deity. This is why Jesus often referred to Himself as the "Son of Man" and as the "Son of God."

Moreover, the three persons of the Trinity are "NOT" separate persons but rather "DISTINCT" persons. There is a difference between the words "separate" and "distinct." The word separate implies more than one God. Also, I've heard people say "three separate beings." This to implies more than one God or polytheism. It is a universal law that a son shares the same nature as its father. Dogs beget other dogs, beavers beget other beavers etc. I will be happy to answer any questions you may have, and may I add this is not hard to understand. PS: Isaiah 9:6 was brought up and the verse or the phrase "Eternal Father" is "NOT" teaching that Jesus Christ is God the Father. This would be known as "Modalism" which the oneness pentecostals teach and it is a heretical teaching. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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Yeah this is helpful in understanding. Distinct but not separate is a good way of showing this.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#42
Jul 18, 2017
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#42
wattie said:
So the question I have is how is God one being .. but then each person of God not being the same as the other?
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This is called "the Mystery of God and Christ". So no one will really be able to *explain* this. We can either believe it or disbelieve it.
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#43
Aug 4, 2016
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#43
Hungry said:
If I write, or say, “I am a plumber,” to you, does this mean I am calling Jehovah a plumber? Perhaps Christ was just using, “I am...” in its proper tense and not addressing Himself as the Great I Am in many of the references you chose. Regardless, I would have just ignored your post if it wasn’t so obviously far reaching. Like I said believe what you want.
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PS said:
Did you know the Queen of England is Commander of the Canadian Forces, the Duke of Lancaster, and Head of the New Zealand Defence Force as well as being Queen of England. She is four persons in one. Yet she is ONE Queen.

She is that even without being omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient. Yet she is ONE person.[/QUOTE}

Please, please, I'm begging you to think about what your advocating ps? You advocating what is know as "Modalism." The following is the definitiion: "A modalist views God as one Person instead of three Persons and believes that the Father, Son, and Spirit are simply different modes or forms of the same divine Person. According to modalism, God can switch among three different manifestations."

The queen is "NOT" four persons in one. She is only "ONE" person playing four different roles or modes. Modalism is one of the most popular theological errors even by people who are Trinitarians. The oneness pentecostal church teaches this heresy.

The problem with it is that it loses the important concept that Christ is our representative or advocate with the Father. In other words, it make redemptive history a kind of charade because of the fact that the Godhead are not distinct persons. In other words, the Son cannot really represent us to the Father.

1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." If Jesus Christ is playing the role/mode of the Father and the role/mode of the Son then He cannot be a true mediator because Modalism teaches that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one and the same person.

Or to give another example you would have God the Father dying on the cross becaue in reality modalism teaches that Jesus plays the role of the Father or He appears to be the Father. Same thing at Mark 1:11, "and a bvoice came out of the heavens; Thou are My beloved Son, in Thee I am well-pleased." Which person is doing the talking ps, the Father or the Son? Any questions I will be happy to address. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#44
Nov 24, 2012
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#44
Hungry said:
If you read what “I Am” means, Christ used it appropriately. I Am means “exist” When God stated it, He was declaring Himself the “self-existing God” which is what Jehovah means. When Christ said it He states, “Before Abraham, I exist”, which translates to the same as “I am”. He was calling Himself deity, not the Father. I really don’t care whether you all believe this. It is clear. Look it up or believe what other men have taught you. God taught me and that is why every time I look it up, for myself it is evident, that men add meaning to what is written.
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I never said He called Himself 'Father'.
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#45
Aug 4, 2016
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#45
JaumeJ said:
Allow me to paraphrase with understanding given me. Long before Jesus in the flesh, in the very beginning, was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. hE IS OUR Father.

When He created all that we see and rested on the Seventh Day, He gave us His day of rest as a gift, forever.

Later we, mankind, turned away from the Maker to those things made by Him. Mankind was put through a lot of trials and tribulation b his own covetness unti God came down to us, Himself, in our form in order that we might discover how to pleas Him, and in so doing find joy and glory for ourselves in Salvation and being with our Father foreve in Heaven, that is our Eternal Father.

When He was with us in fhe ¨Flesh He was just as we are, and He was tempted with all the temptations that ever were or will be and resisted them all, just so we would know directly from God that our Maker is trustworhty and true..

Jesus, being "just a man" as all flesh did have one thing we do not or did not, and that is true knowledge of the Father and all He is, but without actually being God, yet He was god come down to save us. As He told the people after He was brought back, the firstborn, of the dead, His Body was not yet glorified, and after forty days He ascended back to the Father.

Now do not be alarmed that He is now One with the Father and the Holy Spirit for in the OT Yahweh declared He is our Husband, He is our Redeemer, and He is our King.

Yes the Son is the Father come down to save us, bust while He was yet in the flesh, for He had to be like us in order for men to give Him the glory and credit of being a true judge, He was not God, yet at the sametime He was God in the flesh.

Just as we are members of His Body, so He was the same of the Father.

In the OT God declares His Arm is not shortened that It cannot save." This Arm of the Father is Jesus with us, and now is back to the Right Hand of our Father, King and God forever.

The sacrifice the Father did for you and for me is incredibly great, too great to measure. Please If you do not read all of this, do not reply to it, for I believe it is very important to all and glorifies our King. All glory to Jesus, Yeshua, our Savior and God,amen.
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You finally came out and said Jesus is the Father. I have suspected this was your view for a long time now. I am "NOT" putting you down because I believe you are genuinely misuderstanding the Scriptures so I'm going to try and make my explanation simple to understand.

You brought up John 1:1 which is good and then you added the following four words, "hE IS OUR Father." Take notice of the words when it says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was 'WITH" God, and the Word was God." It does not say "and the Word was "God the Father."

It just says, "God." Secondly, from reading the rest of the verses in John 1 we know the Word/Logos refers to only one person which is Jesus Christ. Now, I captilized the word "WITH" on purpose, why? Because if your with someone you CANNOT BE THAT SOMEONE. There is clearly a distinction of persons in view.

John 1:14 says the Word became flesh and the Word is Jesus Christ. Also notice at John 1:18 it says, "No man has seen God at anytime, the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him." Here again, you have two persons, God the Son and God the Father.

Now, I know you quoted Isaiah 9:6 but God the Father is not the one being spoken about. It's all about the Son. When it says, "Father of eternity" it means that Jesus Christ is the "source/archtect/designer" of eternity, time, space, mass even before eternity as we know it. Does this make sense to you? I have much more on this subject but I'll save it for later in case you have any questions. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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#46
Jul 2, 2011
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#46
When I pray, I pray to our Eternal Father...…………..the same One who is our kRedeemer, Husband, and King proclaimed in the Old and the New Testaments. John speaks of our Maker, God (Elohim)……...……..God is traced back, as a word to Sanskrit, however the tracing stops there, yet the word predates Sanskrit from what I have gathered from study. So John does not say Jesus, Yeshua is other than the Savior or Redeemer, the King, and the Huisband declared by YIahweh in te OT....

I believe the entire Word, Jesus,s not just some of it interpreted by men. The entire Word tells me theFather, The Son and thThe Holy Spirit are One, One God if you will.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#47
Jan 11, 2013
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#47
@bluto

You do not even have a correct understanding of Modalism.

Modalism states that God is a single person who, throughout biblical history, has revealed Himself in three modes or forms. Thus, God is a single person who first manifested himself in the mode of the Father in Old Testament times. At the incarnation, the mode was the Son; and after Jesus' ascension, the mode is the Holy Spirit. These modes are consecutive and never simultaneous. In other words, this view states that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit never all exist at the same time--only one after another.

https://carm.org/modalism

As you say the queen is "NOT" four persons in one. She is "ONE" person playing four different roles.

You forgot to say the Queen holds those positions simultaneously as does God, who we are repeatedly told in scripture is ONE, and not three as Trinitarians would have us believe.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#48
Jan 11, 2013
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#48
I see Bluto has gone off-line, but for when he or she comes back I will make the point that if anyone is a modulist it is Trinitarians who have three persons, each one being God.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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#49
Jul 2, 2011
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#49
Thank you for the concise definition of a Trinitarian. You convince me they are a bit oof, and unread in the Word. God bless you. Keep up the good dividing of the Word. J
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

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#50
Jul 2, 2011
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#50
Jesus did not label Himself. He did, however, stress the faith of Abraham and that we are made children of Abraham by faith- This is a very complicated lesson for all who take the simple and make it pedant. May all children understand………..actually I know all children do. God bless all who believe the Word, for all of the Word is Jesus, Yeshua. This also many haave complcted. On the one had NT only, on the other, He is the Word. Gee, they should practice what they say.
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#51
Aug 4, 2016
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#51
PS said:
@bluto

You do not even have a correct understanding of Modalism.

Modalism states that God is a single person who, throughout biblical history, has revealed Himself in three modes or forms. Thus, God is a single person who first manifested himself in the mode of the Father in Old Testament times. At the incarnation, the mode was the Son; and after Jesus' ascension, the mode is the Holy Spirit. These modes are consecutive and never simultaneous. In other words, this view states that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit never all exist at the same time--only one after another.

https://carm.org/modalism

As you say the queen is "NOT" four persons in one. She is "ONE" person playing four different roles.

You forgot to say the Queen holds those positions simultaneously as does God, who we are repeatedly told in scripture is ONE, and not three as Trinitarians would have us believe.
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I did not forget anything ps. What your doing is "conflating" the queen's job titles with her being a person. And since you quoted "carm" I have done the same thing. The Trinity is the biblical teaching that God exists in three distinct and simultaneous persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. There are not three gods, but only one.

John 14:16-17 or Matthew 3:16-17 show how the persons of the Trinity exist at the same time. What this means is that you my friend are a "Modalist" which is deemed a heretical teaching that the early church fathers delt with.

Also, please notice that in the definition above from carm it says, "There are not three gods, but only one." So let me ask you this question? Define the Trinity teaching? From what you stated you think it's all about the One God being three gods. And btw, you should know that I have posted on "CARM" for over 20 years and still do. I also know Matt Slick personally even before CARM. In fact, his ministry started out witnessing to the Mormons and I was involved as well. In short, your in the big leagues now and your not messing around with someone who does not know what their talking about. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#52
Aug 4, 2016
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#52
JaumeJ said:
When I pray, I pray to our Eternal Father...…………..the same One who is our kRedeemer, Husband, and King proclaimed in the Old and the New Testaments. John speaks of our Maker, God (Elohim)……...……..God is traced back, as a word to Sanskrit, however the tracing stops there, yet the word predates Sanskrit from what I have gathered from study. So John does not say Jesus, Yeshua is other than the Savior or Redeemer, the King, and the Huisband declared by YIahweh in te OT....

I believe the entire Word, Jesus,s not just some of it interpreted by men. The entire Word tells me theFather, The Son and thThe Holy Spirit are One, One God if you will.
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Do you ever pray to Jesus Christ, who is the Son of God and not God the Father? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#53
Jul 2, 2011
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#53
Because Our Father sent His Only Begottten to die for me and to succeed where all flesh other has failed, I pray to Him in the name of Jesus, for to Jesus every knee will bow and every tongue confess that He is Lord (Yahweh if you will).

That name, Yahweh, was given to Moses, meaning God is Who He will be...………. I believe this covers the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit, all one...… God does live in each of us who believe Him.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#54
Jan 11, 2013
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#54
bluto said:
I did not forget anything ps. What your doing is "conflating" the queen's job titles with her being a person. And since you quoted "carm" I have done the same thing. The Trinity is the biblical teaching that God exists in three distinct and simultaneous persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. There are not three gods, but only one.

John 14:16-17 or Matthew 3:16-17 show how the persons of the Trinity exist at the same time. What this means is that you my friend are a "Modalist" which is deemed a heretical teaching that the early church fathers delt with.

Also, please notice that in the definition above from carm it says, "There are not three gods, but only one." So let me ask you this question? Define the Trinity teaching? From what you stated you think it's all about the One God being three gods. And btw, you should know that I have posted on "CARM" for over 20 years and still do. I also know Matt Slick personally even before CARM. In fact, his ministry started out witnessing to the Mormons and I was involved as well. In short, your in the big leagues now and your not messing around with someone who does not know what their talking about. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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Say Hi, to a fellow member of CARM. I have a different screen name there to the one I use here, and I have not posted on CARM for years. All the things that are said on the link you showed me are true, except for one small misunderstanding. The table showing scripture references to Father, Son, and Holy Spirit should be headed, "The Divine Nature of the One God in Heaven one Earth and in our Heart."

God is not three persons, God is One.
 
tanakh

tanakh

Senior Member
#55
Dec 1, 2015
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#55
wattie said:
In looking at the trinity, I have seen a lot of diagrams that have the Holy Spirit, Father and Son all being God..

..but that the Holy Spirit is not the Father, the Son is not either.. the Father is not either..

So the question I have is how is God one being .. but then each person of God not being the same as the other?

I do believe in the deity of all 3 persons.. but I struggle to think if them as separate given God is one being.

I suppose if you look at a person for an analogy .. they have a body mind and soul.. and the body isn't the mind or the soul.

Anyway... your thoughts?
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I see it this way. God is a family. Most people belong to a family. If you see a Father Mother and their child walking along
you naturally recognise a family composed of individuals with separate human identities and roles within that family. On the other hand if you see the member on their own you recognise him as part of that family not the whole family combined. The main difference between ''the God Family'' and ours is that each member is eternal which is beyond human imagination. They live outside of time and the material universe. They have different roles to play within their divine family but collectively they are God. I hope I have explained my view but the subject is mind blowing and my mind is already blown as it is!
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#56
Aug 4, 2016
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#56
PS said:
Say Hi, to a fellow member of CARM. I have a different screen name there to the one I use here, and I have not posted on CARM for years. All the things that are said on the link you showed me are true, except for one small misunderstanding. The table showing scripture references to Father, Son, and Holy Spirit should be headed, "The Divine Nature of the One God in Heaven one Earth and in our Heart."

God is not three persons, God is One.
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Hi back at you! Now, if God is not three persons then please explain the following question? If the Son is not a distinct person from the Father why ten is the Son presented or specifically identified as the Agent of creation at John 1:2, Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:10 by His Father and at Revelation 3:14?

So, if as you say "God is not three persons" then why is the Son distinguished and credited with creation? In fact, John 1:3 states, "All things came into being by Him/Jesus Christ, and APART from Him, (apart means without Him) nothing came into being that has come into being."

Why is the person of God the Father and the person of the Holy Spirit excluded from having a hand in creation? In other words, if God is one person there would be no need to distinguish Him the other two persons of the Trinity.

Laslty, you said "God is one" so tell me how is God one? For instance Jesus says at John 10:30, "I and the Father are one." In what respect are they one ps? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#57
Jan 11, 2013
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#57
bluto said:
Hi back at you! Now, if God is not three persons then please explain the following question? If the Son is not a distinct person from the Father why ten is the Son presented or specifically identified as the Agent of creation at John 1:2, Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:10 by His Father and at Revelation 3:14?

So, if as you say "God is not three persons" then why is the Son distinguished and credited with creation? In fact, John 1:3 states, "All things came into being by Him/Jesus Christ, and APART from Him, (apart means without Him) nothing came into being that has come into being."

Why is the person of God the Father and the person of the Holy Spirit excluded from having a hand in creation? In other words, if God is one person there would be no need to distinguish Him the other two persons of the Trinity.

Laslty, you said "God is one" so tell me how is God one? For instance Jesus says at John 10:30, "I and the Father are one." In what respect are they one ps? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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Jesus is the Word and the Word is God. Jesus is Creator God. He came down from heavens glory.
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#58
Aug 4, 2016
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#58
PS said:
Jesus is the Word and the Word is God. Jesus is Creator God. He came down from heavens glory.
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Well, I have to admit that you really gave me a snappy answer. :rolleyes: You did not address one word of my post, why?

But no worries, let me see how you address 1 Corinthians 8:6, "yet for us there is but one God, THE FATHER; from whom are all things." This means God the Father is the "source" of all things or of everything."

And then you have the rest of the verse which says the following: "and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things and we exist through Him." This means the Son of God is also the source of all things or of everything."

So ps, tell us all here why there are two distinct PERSONS identifed in this one verse, God the Father and God the Son? You did say there is only one person of God so please reconcile what the Bible clearly says to what you said? Btw, don't make me choose who is right? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#59
Jan 11, 2013
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#59
bluto said:
Well, I have to admit that you really gave me a snappy answer. :rolleyes: You did not address one word of my post, why?

But no worries, let me see how you address 1 Corinthians 8:6, "yet for us there is but one God, THE FATHER; from whom are all things." This means God the Father is the "source" of all things or of everything."

And then you have the rest of the verse which says the following: "and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things and we exist through Him." This means the Son of God is also the source of all things or of everything."

So ps, tell us all here why there are two distinct PERSONS identifed in this one verse, God the Father and God the Son? You did say there is only one person of God so please reconcile what the Bible clearly says to what you said? Btw, don't make me choose who is right? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; (The Father created all things) and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. (Jesus created all things.) (1Co 8:6 KJV)

Jesus is the Word (God on earth.)
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#60
Aug 4, 2016
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#60
PS said:
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; (The Father created all things) and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. (Jesus created all things.) (1Co 8:6 KJV)

Jesus is the Word (God on earth.)
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So, how many persons are in 1 Corinthians 8:6, one or two? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
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