Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
Maybe because the "moral law" was/is impossible to keep..... although some people think they can...... and Jesus knew this.

Everyone keeps saying they can't but no one can tell me one they cant. Love God with all of you?? not wittle out litte graven images?? don't take His name in vain?? Love mom and dad?? don't kill, lie steal covet??? or is it the taking a day of rest that just can't be managed??? I just don't get how these are so impossible that you can't make it an hour, a day or a week or two.


AND WHEN YOU CAN'T, God knows you can't, hasn't everyone heard how to have that sin forgiven??? Can He have made it ANY EASIER than "repent" ask forgiveness, be washed clean, have that sin blotted out, and go and sin no more. BUT He knows we will, BUT there is that solution right there, the same and after a few of those "Poof, one day you realize, I quit doing that" and you realize you don't want to and you walk a little more holy than you did before, and this world has a little less of a grasp on you.

I don't think it could have been made ANY easier that God made it to walk perfectly before HIM. REPENT AND BE FORGIVEN, WASHED CLEAN and go and sin no more. How is this not just the natural way of a CHRistian? He PAID dearly to make this available to us His yoke is light.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Everyone keeps saying they can't but no one can tell me one they cant. Love God with all of you?? not wittle out litte graven images?? don't take His name in vain?? Love mom and dad?? don't kill, lie steal covet??? or is it the taking a day of rest that just can't be managed??? I just don't get how these are so impossible that you can't make it an hour, a day or a week or two.


AND WHEN YOU CAN'T, God knows you can't, hasn't everyone heard how to have that sin forgiven??? Can He have made it ANY EASIER than "repent" ask forgiveness, be washed clean, have that sin blotted out, and go and sin no more. BUT He knows we will, BUT there is that solution right there, the same and after a few of those "Poof, one day you realize, I quit doing that" and you realize you don't want to and you walk a little more holy than you did before, and this world has a little less of a grasp on you.

I don't think it could have been made ANY easier that God made it to walk perfectly before HIM. REPENT AND BE FORGIVEN, WASHED CLEAN and go and sin no more. How is this not just the natural way of a CHRistian? He PAID dearly to make this available to us His yoke is light.

Is salvation a process or a state of being?
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
You scale down the Gospel to include external law / commandment keeping.

The Gospel is a New Life in Jesus..... those commandments are internal... one has to take in the big picture which you seem to refuse to do......... more sighing!!

No, I am not allowed to not only physically kill, I am not to think that way. I am not to steal your stuff, I am not to want to steal your stuff.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Salvation is a gift.
Focus on this gift then, and all it entails.... I can tell you from experience, you have to be willing to abandon yourself and trust Jesus within completely and take your eyes off the the law.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
God saves by his grace and does even more. He also sanctifies his people and makes us more like Christ. He produces the fruit of the Spirit in the lives of believers.
Yes, one of the best ways to discern good from evil, "fruit of the Spirit". Separates the holy from the carnal, "the fruits" of the Spirit so clearly seen or not seen in everyday conversation. The carnal man can never seem reign in "unchristianlike" behavior. Constantly accusing, judging, name calling, dividing, well you've seen it. We know them by their fruit. Never even a hint of a struggle between the holy and profane.

One of the words I like most, and the process of sanctification, one of the things I have felt most.
sanctify

37 hagiazo to make holy, consecrate, sanctify

I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify

to render or acknowledge to be venerable, to hallow

to separate from things profane and dedicate to God, to consecrate

to purify

to cleanse externally, to purify levitically

to purify by expiation, free from the guilt of sin

to purify internally by reformation of soul (through the knowledge of the truth".

Christians are called, as those who, freed from the impurity of wickedness have been brought near to God by their faith and sanctity,

from hagios to make holy, purify or consecrate
mentally to venerate- hallow, be holy, sanctify


Sanctification
38 hagiasmos consecration, sanctification

the process of making or becoming holy, set apart, sanctification, holiness, consecration

the effect of consecration, sanctification of heart and life, wrought by the Holy Spirit
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Yes, one of the best ways to discern good from evil, "fruit of the Spirit". Separates the holy from the carnal, "the fruits" of the Spirit so clearly seen or not seen in everyday conversation. The carnal man can never seem reign in "unchristianlike" behavior. Constantly accusing, judging, name calling, dividing, well you've seen it. We know them by their fruit. Never even a hint of a struggle between the holy and profane.

One of the words I like most, and the process of sanctification, one of the things I have felt most.
sanctify

37 hagiazo to make holy, consecrate, sanctify

I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify

to render or acknowledge to be venerable, to hallow

to separate from things profane and dedicate to God, to consecrate

to purify

to cleanse externally, to purify levitically

to purify by expiation, free from the guilt of sin

to purify internally by reformation of soul (through the knowledge of the truth".

Christians are called, as those who, freed from the impurity of wickedness have been brought near to God by their faith and sanctity,

from hagios to make holy, purify or consecrate
mentally to venerate- hallow, be holy, sanctify


Sanctification
38 hagiasmos consecration, sanctification

the process of making or becoming holy, set apart, sanctification, holiness, consecration

the effect of consecration, sanctification of heart and life, wrought by the Holy Spirit
We are positionally sanctified first... we live outward what is accomplished inward.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
Focus on this gift then, and all it entails.... I can tell you from experience, you have to be willing to abandon yourself and trust Jesus within completely and take your eyes off the the law.
That is how I started and remained for many years. Then I read about "put on the full gospel armor", and my eyes were opened to all the knowledge and wisdom not only to be found within them, but necessary to withstand the fiery darts.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
That is how I started and remained for many years. Then I read about "put on the full gospel armor", and my eyes were opened to all the knowledge and wisdom not only to be found within them, but necessary to withstand the fiery darts.
What is the full Gospel armour in your view?
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. He does not change

His demand still stands.

You can not claim to be keeping the law. Or ten commands, if you are still breaking it (which we all do)

I pray you one day see this.

thats WHY we must saved

That's WHY we are under GRACE, for without it, we wold all be Dead.

Yes we are forgiven, but the fact you must be forgiven should be your first clue. That you do not keep the law (including the ten commands) whcih paul alls the ministry of death, written on stone.
I can and I do claim to, I claim to succeed and fail, yet I never quit going down the path towards the narrow gate. It is in the "BEING SAVED" that I have knowledge and trust that I will.

I believe the New Testament is the Covenant that governs me. I am a sinner. I believe the NT, provides me forgiveness for sin and the promise of life. I believe sin is transgression of the Holy ways of God. So, I believe in keeping the commandments the very best I can, for as long as I can. I believe that the longer I discipline myself in following those commands, them more disciplined I become in the holy ways of God. I believe this is the process of sanctification. If I didn't follow the commands, I would not be a sinner. Knowing I am a sinner, I know I follow the commands. If I wasn't a sinner, I would have no need for forgiveness, therefore no need for the Blood of Christ. Therefore

I must be following the commands of God because it is in the NOT being able to PERFECTLY follow them that I become a sinner. If I say I do not sin I am a liar. But I do not remain in a sinful state for long


I am not going to skip any of the process that has been set before me.

The law of the kingdom of God is near, Repent (from what if not transgression of the law?)
I a sinner in the transgression of that law.
I repent.
I ask that through the Blood of the Lamb my sin be forgiven.
That sin is not only forgiven, it is blotted out of the book.
I am washed clean, made perfect through His sacrifice, penalty paid, I go and sin no more.
But my flesh is at enmity with the spirit.
I take my eye off the ball, I slip, I fall, I transgress the law.....

2 Corinthians 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward
2 Corinthians 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves but our sufficiency is of God;
I alone don't have what it takes but upon the receiving of the spirit from God that I become sufficient. And what for? To be made an able minister

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Are we to do in the NT as was done in the OT, follow physically without love, without the Spirit?
We have received the gift of the Spirit and with that Spirit we can become able ministers of the New Testament. Agree or disagree? Does the New Testament contain commandments? Yes or No?
With the gift of the Spirit we have received are we made sufficient to follow the commandments of the New Testament Yes or No?

2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away
The law of Moses was temporary, to be done away with, till the seed should come, Agreed?


2 Corinthians 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
Does this tell us that the New Testament in which we receive the Spirit, (not to mention life) is much better than the old?

2 Corinthians 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
The OT, even as it was, was glorious, but the ministry of righteousness is WAY better.

2 Corinthians 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
Comparing the two, the Old to the New, the New leaves the Old at the starting gate Agreed?

2 Corinthians 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
The Old WHICH WAS GLORIOUS is done away with, no longer applicable, not to be bound by, no longer under, but the wonderful New has taken its place and remains to this day, Agreed?

2 Corinthians 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
What is the full Gospel armour in your view?
Knowing Gods Plan, watching as prophecy is being fulfilled so we know what time it is in His Plan, being ready and knowledgeable to withstand and overcome in the hour of temptation, knowing what He will be expecting of us, along with what we are not to do, not to say.
 
Sep 6, 2014
7,034
5,435
113
I often hear those who believe they will be saved based on the merits of obeying the 10 commandments (usually SDA's) quote Revelation 22:14 quite a bit. I noticed in Revelation 22:14 that certain translations say, "do his commandments," yet numerous other translations say, "wash their robes," which symbolizes those who have been forgiven of their sins through the blood of the Lamb (Romans 3:24-26). Also see Revelation 7:14. There will certainly be no boasting in law. (Romans 3:22-28) I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain. (Galatians 2:21)
Amen,
I agree with you brother mailmandan.

Also, I agree, appreciate, and embrace, the analogy you used here to show what "wash their robes" symbolizes in Revelation 7:14 as well.
Good stuff.

I thank God, in Christ Jesus for gracious brothers like you.

Romans 3:21-22
But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all [f]and on all who believe.

Romans 3:26
He did this to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and to justify the one who has faith in Jesus.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
No, I am not allowed to not only physically kill, I am not to think that way. I am not to steal your stuff, I am not to want to steal your stuff.
Matthew 5:21-22 (HCSB)
21 “You have heard that it was said to our ancestors, Do not murder, and whoever murders will be subject to judgment.
22 But I tell you, everyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Fool!’ will be subject to the Sanhedrin. But whoever says, ‘You moron!’ will be subject to hellfire.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
Too real for you all? Everyone go off line at the same time?? Good at pointing fingers, AT all but yourselves huh?? Bunch of scaredy cats. Way to stand up. Anyone willing to stand? Do you keep the commandments?? it would seem to be a simple question. Its a simple command. Any one else washing their robes?

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

YOU SUBTRACTED what it really said, and ADDED what you thought it should mean, AND THAT IS FORBIDDEN!

It has become OBVIOUS that YOU, DeighAnn and JadenS are the SAME PERSON.


CATHOLIC BIBLE - NEW AMERICAN BIBLE - Recommended by the Vatican.

REVELATION 22:

14

Blessed are they who wash their robes so as to have the right to the tree of life and enter the city 9 through its gates.


18

I warn everyone who hears the prophetic words in this book:
if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book,

19

and if anyone takes away from the words in this prophetic book, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city described in this book.

PROVERBS 30:
6

Add nothing to his words, lest he reprove you, and you be exposed as a deceiver.


Time for you to go, DECEIVER. You will have a lot of explaining to do at your next Confessional.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
YOU SUBTRACTED what it really said, and ADDED what you thought it should mean, AND THAT IS FORBIDDEN!
Do you own a King James Bible? If so, go read Rev 22:14 and tell me what it says. Or find an online one. Don't know a JadenS. You are becoming quite the false accuser, bearing false witness, does this make it 3 or 4 times in the last 2 days?? Actually if we take it word wise it is much more. Pretty sure you do not a repent, thinking "past" meant future, I could be wrong, but I will be standing there right beside you on judgement day and all will be bright and clear and the truth will be known.

Maybe in the mean time you should read what I have written about the veil being rent and going through a priest to talk to God. Go back as many months as you want.

Not only my confessions, but also my prayers go straight to God, I am sure He hears them.
 
Aug 17, 2019
226
167
43
To Deighann,

“Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces. Matthew 7:6
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
Do you own a King James Bible? If so, go read Rev 22:14 and tell me what it says. Or find an online one. Don't know a JadenS. You are becoming quite the false accuser, bearing false witness, does this make it 3 or 4 times in the last 2 days?? Actually if we take it word wise it is much more. Pretty sure you do not a repent, thinking "past" meant future, I could be wrong, but I will be standing there right beside you on judgement day and all will be bright and clear and the truth will be known.

Maybe in the mean time you should read what I have written about the veil being rent and going through a priest to talk to God. Go back as many months as you want.

Not only my confessions, but also my prayers go straight to God, I am sure He hears them.
Okay, Please FORGIVE ME for JUMPING THE GUN, and falsely Accusing you. It is yet another UNKNOWN error that the KJV so-called Translators transcribed from the 6 older English versions with KNOWN ERRORS, when they did an admitted PARAPHRASE into the ENGLISH that King James spoke. So even the KJV missed a few of the KNOWN ERRORS.


The Original Preface of the 1611 KJV


The Translators To The Reader

. . .
as though they made a Translation to serve their owne turne, and therefore bearing witnesse to themselves, their witnesse not to be regarded. This may be supposed to bee some cause, why the Translation of the Seventie was allowed to passe for currant. . . . he holdeth the Authours thereof not onely for Interpreters, but also for Prophets in some respect: and Justinian the Emperour enjoyning the Jewes his subjects to use specially the Translation of the Seventie, rendreth this reason thereof, because they were as it were enlighted with propheticall grace. . . .
. . .
This is the translation of the Seventy Interpreters, com- monly so called, which prepared the way for our Saviour among the Gen- tiles by written preaching . . . It is certain, that that Translation was not so sound and so perfect, but it needed in many places correc- tion;
. . . { KNOWN ERRORS in the Septuagint } . . . that the Seventy were Interpreters, they were not Prophets; they did many things well, as learned men; but yet as men they stumbled and fell, one while through oversight, another while through ignorance, yea, sometimes they may be noted to add to the Original, and sometimes to take from it; which made the Apostles to leave them many times, when they left the Hebrew, and to deliver the sense thereof according to the truth of the word, as the spirit gave them utterance. This may suffice touching the Greek Translations of the Old Testament. . . .
. . .

(and Saint Jerome affirmeth as much) that the Seventie were Interpreters, they were not Prophets; they did many things well, as learned men; but yet as men they stumbled and fell, one while through oversight, another while through ignorance, yea, sometimes they may be noted to adde to the Originall, and sometimes to take from it {.KNOWN ERRORS.}; which made the Apostles to leave them many times, when they left the Hebrew, and to deliver the sence thereof according to the trueth of the word, as the spirit gave them utterance. This may suffice touching the Greeke Translations of the old Testament. . . .
. . .
But now the Latin Translations were too many to be all good, for they were infinite (Latini Interprets nullo modo numerari possunt, saith S. Augustine.) [S. Augustin. de doctr. Christ. lib 2 cap II]. Again they were not out of the Hebrew fountain (we speak of the Latin Translations of the Old Testament) but out of the Greek stream, therefore the Greek being not altogether clear, the Latin derived from it must needs be muddy. . . .
. . .

There were also within a few hundreth yeeres after CHRIST, translations many into the Latine tongue: for this tongue also was very fit to convey the Law and the Gospel by, because in those times very many Countreys of the West, yea of the South, East and North, spake or understood Latine, being made Provinces to the Romanes. But now the Latine Translations were too many to be all good, . . . Now the Church of Rome . . . Yea, so unwilling they are to communicate the Scriptures to the peoples understanding in any sort, that they are not ashamed to confesse, that wee forced them to translate it into English against their wills. . . .
. . .
. . .
but let us rather bless God from the ground of our heart, for working this religious care in him, to have the translations of the Bible maturely con- sidered of and examined.
. . .
the same will shine as gold more brightly, being rubbed and polished; also, if anything be halting, or superfluous, or not so agreeable to the original, the same may be corrected, and the truth set in place. { KNOWN ERRORS } . . .
. . .
Yet for all that, as nothing is begun and perfited at the same time, and the later thoughts are thought to be the wiser: so, if we building upon their foundation that went before us, and being holpen by their labours, doe endevour to make that better which they left so good; no man, we are sure, hath cause to mislike us; they, we persuade our selves, if they were alive, would thanke us. . . .
. . .
to have the translations of the Bible maturely considered of and examined. For by this meanes it commeth to passe, that whatsoever is sound alreadie (and all is sound for substance, in one or other of our editions, and the worst of ours farre better then their autentike vulgar) the same will shine as gold more brightly, being rubbed and polished; also if any thing be halting, or superfluous, or not so agreeable to the originall, the same may bee corrected, and the trueth set in place. . . .
. . .
Now to the later we answere; that wee doe not deny, nay wee affirme and avow, that the very meanest {poorest} translation of the Bible in English, set foorth by men of our profession (for wee have seene none of theirs of the whole Bible as yet) containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God. . . .
. . .
Yet before we end, we must answere a third cavill and objection of theirs against us, for altering and amending our Taanslations [sic] so oft; wherein truely they deale hardly, and strangely with us. { The very same thing you do to MODERN Translations. } For to whom ever was it imputed for a fault (by such as were wise) to goe over that which hee had done, and to amend it where he saw cause? . . .
. . .
But the difference that appeareth betweene our Translations, and our often correcting of them, is the thing that wee are specially charged with; let us see therefore whether they themselves bee without fault this way, (if it be to be counted a fault, to correct) and whether they bee fit men to throw stones at us: But it is high time to leave them, and to shew in briefe what wee proposed to our selves, and what course we held in this our perusall and survay of the Bible. Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, (for then the imputation of Sixtus had bene true in some sort, that our people had bene fed with gall of Dragons in stead of wine, with whey in stead of milke, but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principall good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath bene our indeavour, that our marke. . . .
. . .

{ That makes it a PARAPHRASE and not an actual Translation from the original languages. }
Only KJV, and NKJV that ERROR copied for Older English Versions.

And prehaps the Young's Literal Translation, who interpret the VERSE THIS WAY:

Revelation 22:14 (YLT)
14 `Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city;

ALL OTHER VERSIONS, based on older manuscripts, interpret the verse this way:

Revelation 22:14 (NASB)
14 Blessed {means Happy} are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.

I have a suggestion for you, PLEASE put the VERSION behind the VERSE NUMBER like I DO, it prevents confusion.
Sorry for my mistakes again.