Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
- Thread starter LW97
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Some would call that cherry picking. You left out the understanding...
2 Timothy 2:12 KJV 13 If we believe not, (no faith) yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Philipians 1: 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
If everytime we did deny him in unbeleif and he will deny of permanently .Christ must be crucified over and over to public shame as if once was not enough.
Peter the serial denier would of been in trouble.
2 Timothy 2:12 KJV 13 If we believe not, (no faith) yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Philipians 1: 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
If everytime we did deny him in unbeleif and he will deny of permanently .Christ must be crucified over and over to public shame as if once was not enough.
Peter the serial denier would of been in trouble.
Now you are saying that Jesus was not righteous? 
You have some strange doctrines!
Jesus was God, but He was also man. (John 1:1, 14)
You have some strange doctrines!Jesus was God, but He was also man. (John 1:1, 14)
I don't have strange doctrines, i'm just trying to understand what the bible says and teaches in comparison to men's doctrines.
If Jesus wasn't saved from spiritual death, what kind of death was He being saved from?
-
1
- Show all
1. It is the elect's lives that are shortened and not the age.
Psalms 116:
15Precious in the sight of the Lord
is the death of his faithful servants.
Isa 57:
1The righteous perish,
and no one takes it to heart;
the devout are taken away,
and no one understands
that the righteous are taken away
to be spared from evil.
2Those who walk uprightly
enter into peace;
they find rest as they lie in death.
2. The elect are being saved, not from physical persecution (death of the body) but from lies because the war is not about flesh and blood but principalities and powers.
This is the reason an elect has to be taken out because if they continue being exposed to lies, they fall for it and face the wrath of God. The reason God says, "the lie is so strong that if it were possible, the elect will fall for it.."
Psalms 116:
15Precious in the sight of the Lord
is the death of his faithful servants.
Isa 57:
1The righteous perish,
and no one takes it to heart;
the devout are taken away,
and no one understands
that the righteous are taken away
to be spared from evil.
2Those who walk uprightly
enter into peace;
they find rest as they lie in death.
2. The elect are being saved, not from physical persecution (death of the body) but from lies because the war is not about flesh and blood but principalities and powers.
This is the reason an elect has to be taken out because if they continue being exposed to lies, they fall for it and face the wrath of God. The reason God says, "the lie is so strong that if it were possible, the elect will fall for it.."
It is very very very bad because, you are looking at the physical but it is the spirit that is being damaged.
Dan 8:
9From one of these horns a little horn emerged and grew extensively toward the south and the east and toward the Beautiful Land. 10It grew as high as the host of heaven, and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the earth, and trampled them. 11It magnified itself, even to the Prince of the host; it removed His daily sacrifice and overthrew the place of His sanctuary. 12And in the rebellion,a the host and the daily sacrifice were given over to the horn, and it flung truth to the ground and prospered in whatever it did.
13Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long until the fulfillment of the vision of the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host to be trampled?”
The highlighted part is what it means tribulation or Jacob's trouble.
Flinging the truth to the ground doesn't require arms or guns or missiles or nuclear bombs but a man on the podium with a bible in his hand. And this are the times.
Dan 8:
9From one of these horns a little horn emerged and grew extensively toward the south and the east and toward the Beautiful Land. 10It grew as high as the host of heaven, and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the earth, and trampled them. 11It magnified itself, even to the Prince of the host; it removed His daily sacrifice and overthrew the place of His sanctuary. 12And in the rebellion,a the host and the daily sacrifice were given over to the horn, and it flung truth to the ground and prospered in whatever it did.
13Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long until the fulfillment of the vision of the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host to be trampled?”
The highlighted part is what it means tribulation or Jacob's trouble.
Flinging the truth to the ground doesn't require arms or guns or missiles or nuclear bombs but a man on the podium with a bible in his hand. And this are the times.
Why would Jesus need to be saved physically when He knew He was the sacrificial lamb who came to die and redeem His people?
The answer to you question is in Hebrews. This below is a good start.
Heb 2:
5For it is not to angels that He has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking. 6But somewhere it is testified in these words:
“What is man that You are mindful of him,
or the son of man that You care for him?
7You made him a little lowera than the angels;
You crowned him with glory and honorb
8and placed everything under his feet.”c
When God subjected all things to him, He left nothing outside of his control. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him. 9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because He suffered death, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.
10In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting for God, for whom and through whom all things exist, to make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering. 11For both the One who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers. 12He says:
“I will proclaim Your name to My brothers;
I will sing Your praises in the assembly.”d
13And again:
“I will put My trust in Him.”e
And once again:
“Here am I, and the children God has given Me.”f
14Now since the children have flesh and blood, He too shared in their humanity, so that by His death He might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is, the devil, 15and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.
16For surely it is not the angels He helps, but the descendants of Abraham. 17For this reason He had to be made like His brothers in every way, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, in order to make atonementg for the sins of the people. 18Because He Himself suffered when He was tempted, He is able to help those who are being tempted.
The answer to you question is in Hebrews. This below is a good start.
Heb 2:
5For it is not to angels that He has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking. 6But somewhere it is testified in these words:
“What is man that You are mindful of him,
or the son of man that You care for him?
7You made him a little lowera than the angels;
You crowned him with glory and honorb
8and placed everything under his feet.”c
When God subjected all things to him, He left nothing outside of his control. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him. 9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because He suffered death, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.
10In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting for God, for whom and through whom all things exist, to make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering. 11For both the One who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers. 12He says:
“I will proclaim Your name to My brothers;
I will sing Your praises in the assembly.”d
13And again:
“I will put My trust in Him.”e
And once again:
“Here am I, and the children God has given Me.”f
14Now since the children have flesh and blood, He too shared in their humanity, so that by His death He might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is, the devil, 15and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.
16For surely it is not the angels He helps, but the descendants of Abraham. 17For this reason He had to be made like His brothers in every way, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, in order to make atonementg for the sins of the people. 18Because He Himself suffered when He was tempted, He is able to help those who are being tempted.
I think some unbelievers survive. Who do you think THESE people are after the 1000 yrs, when Christ's eternal reign is interrupted?
Revelation 20:7-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
Satanic Rebellion Crushed
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[a] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Revelation 20:7-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
Satanic Rebellion Crushed
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[a] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
-
1
- Show all