Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

[Noose]

Uh oh! noose hit his head.

Hey noose, being faithful to your husband or wife is not works of the law, it’s the fruit of love, hence the word, faithfulness.

So you know better than le professor of law himself?

Rom 7:1Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

 

[mailmandan]

Q. If Jesus wasn't saved from spiritual death, what kind of death was He being saved from?

God in the flesh did not need to be saved from spiritual death.

 

[Noose]

God in the flesh did not need to be saved from spiritual death.

So what kind of death are you suggesting about Heb 5?
Was God in flesh being saved from physical, bodily death? or does God need to be saved from physical death now that He doesn't need to be saved from spiritual death?

 

[UnderGrace]

It is not 'our works' but the works of the one who sent us.

Matt 25: ...‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

Works do not save

 

[PennEd]

So what kind of death are you suggesting about Heb 5?
Was God in flesh being saved from physical, bodily death? or does God need to be saved from physical death now that He doesn't need to be saved from spiritual death?

I'm coming into this thing late, but are you suggesting that Jesus Spiritually died?

 

[Noose]

Works do not save

I'm sorry but you are mistaken.

Rom 6:16Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness?

Is righteousness the same thing as salvation?

 

[Noose]

I'm coming into this thing late, but are you suggesting that Jesus Spiritually died?

No. I'm suggesting He overcame the spiritual death.
Are you suggesting that He was saved from physical death?

 

[PennEd]

No. I'm suggesting He overcame the spiritual death.
Are you suggesting that He was saved from physical death?

Of course not! If Jesus didn't physically die, then our sins weren't paid for.

He didn't "overcome" Spiritual death. He was NEVER in danger of Spiritually dying. He is God.

 

[calibob]

Let us never forget Grace. The Son of the living God knew fully well what would happen to him and did what he did for us anyway. Furthermore; Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." He didn't stop there but when he arose he left the murderous crowd and his accusers the opportunity to repent. Even Saul of Tarsus was turned around and became an ambassador for Christ's sake.

I think the term lose or lost salvation is a misuse of words. Paul and others repeatedly warned us not to turn our backs on grace and return to serving the law with it's curse of sin and death. I used to gamble... a lot. If I dropped $500 on a table in a day and only went home with a pack of cigarettes'. I didn't consider it a loss because I knew fully well that I threw my money away.

So my question is not whether we can lose our salvation but can we throw it away?

 

[Noose]

Of course not! If Jesus didn't physically die, then our sins weren't paid for.

He didn't "overcome" Spiritual death. He was NEVER in danger of Spiritually dying. He is God.

No one said He was in danger of spiritual death but He was made to be like His brothers (men) in every way so that He can taste death (all forms of death) for us and by being victorious, also make us victorious.

Heb 2:
5For it is not to angels that He has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking. 6But somewhere it is testified in these words:

“What is man that You are mindful of him,
or the son of man that You care for him?
7You made him a little lowera than the angels;
You crowned him with glory and honorb
8and placed everything under his feet.”c

When God subjected all things to him, He left nothing outside of his control. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him. 9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because He suffered death, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

10In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting for God, for whom and through whom all things exist, to make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering. 11For both the One who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers. 12He says:

“I will proclaim Your name to My brothers;
I will sing Your praises in the assembly.”d
13And again:
“I will put My trust in Him.”e
And once again:
“Here am I, and the children God has given Me.”f

14Now since the children have flesh and blood, He too shared in their humanity, so that by His death He might destroy him who holds the power of death, that is, the devil, 15and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

16For surely it is not the angels He helps, but the descendants of Abraham. 17For this reason He had to be made like His brothers in every way, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, in order to make atonementg for the sins of the people. 18Because He Himself suffered when He was tempted, He is able to help those who are being tempted.

 

[Noose]

When it is said, "Jesus tasted death for us",(Heb 2:9) does it mean that He only died physically and never tasted the spiritual death just as men would? so of what help is that because all flesh die alike.

When it says Jesus tasted death for us, it precisely means He tasted the spiritual death for us because that is what men are being saved from. If He overcame that death then we shall also overcome.

 

[Noose]

Let us never forget Grace. The Son of the living God knew fully well what would happen to him and did what he did for us anyway. Furthermore; Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." He didn't stop there but when he arose he left the murderous crowd and his accusers the opportunity to repent. Even Saul of Tarsus was turned around and became an ambassador for Christ's sake.

I think the term lose or lost salvation is a misuse of words. Paul and others repeatedly warned us not to turn our backs on grace and return to serving the law with it's curse of sin and death. I used to gamble... a lot. If I dropped $500 on a table in a day and only went home with a pack of cigarettes'. I didn't consider it a loss because I knew fully well that I threw my money away.

So my question is not whether we can lose our salvation but can we throw it away?

Of course you can lose your salvation.

1 Cor 15:1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

 

[calibob]

Of course you can lose your salvation.

1 Cor 15:1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

My issue is with the word lose, as if by accident but blasphemy of the Holy Spirit by rejecting Christ is not an accident. It's spiritual suicide.

 

[Noose]

My issue is with the word lose, as if by accident but blasphemy of the Holy Spirit by rejecting Christ is not an accident. It's spiritual suicide.

Example of a spiritual suicide: Ananias and Saphirra

Lose by accident or unknowingly has also been spoken about; example John 15

4Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

 

[Lightskin]

So you know better than le professor of law himself?

Rom 7:1Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

That same professor of whom you speak also wrote 1 Corinthians 13, the love chapter.

 

[calibob]

Example of a spiritual suicide: Ananias and Saphirra

Lose by accident or unknowingly has also been spoken about; example John 15

4Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

I this case, (not Ananias & Saphira's) there is still room for repentance so all is not lost.

 

[Lightskin]

I'm sorry but you are mistaken.

Wow! This is your response to UnderGrace stating works do not save, yet you have time and again stated you do not preach works salvation. Houston, we have a problem!

 

[calibob]

That same professor of whom you speak also wrote 1 Corinthians 13, the love chapter.

The law was different then. A woman had no right to legally divorce her husband or own real estate or vote either.

 

[Noose]

That same professor of whom you speak also wrote 1 Corinthians 13, the love chapter.

Correct. 1 Cor 13 doesn't in any way cancel the fact that, "by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive"

It doesn't matter whether you love your wife or not, if you cheat on her, then BY LAW, you are an adulterer. It is the law that spells out what you are, not grace.

So, it is my observation that those that teach grace are on the fore in keeping the law also. Teach water but take wine.

 

[Noose]

Wow! This is your response to UnderGrace stating works do not save, yet you have time and again stated you do not preach works salvation. Houston, we have a problem!

You know, there's such a thing as law that requires works and there's also law that requires faith.

We are not saved by the works of the law but the law that requires faith has its own works.