Is unconditional election biblical?
- Thread starter UnitedWithChrist
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
In that way who knows when the seed of the gospel sprouts and begins to grow. God is not served by human hands . We can plant the seed and water it with the doctrines of God but he alone cause the growth if any . It would seem the thief on the cross was moved by the faith of Christ working in him to defend the faith it once tried to make to no effect. I think all are on a learning curve. The wage is the same eternal life .A pennies worth according to the parable. It would seem to magnify his mercy and long suffering as a labor of love..
You know Garee, I love the KJV and let's see this "faith of" as used in the KJV. Since "of" has a lot of meaning in the dictionary and you offer one that might seem to be correct. The King James was translated during as Shakespeare wrote his own. 'Of" simply means 'on', and 'on' means 'in' but I would not offer you what Shakespeare but the word of God. This is comparing spiritual things with spiritual to understand the language of the KJV. 'Faith of" also means "believe in". Moreover, Acts 16:31 says "Belive on"
Galatians 2:14 - 2:17
Now viewing scripture range from the book of Galatians chapter 2:14 through chapter 2:17...
Galatians Chapter 2
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before [them] all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
15 We [who are] Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Galatians 2:14 - 2:17
Now viewing scripture range from the book of Galatians chapter 2:14 through chapter 2:17...
Galatians Chapter 2
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before [them] all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
15 We [who are] Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
-
1
- Show all
I was searching for something and came across your posts and responses to them. I have to say, I am so sorry you're being berated for your faith, and mocked and attacked due to your use of wording in your posts.
If English is not your first language, and that is not meant to insult you at all, it is understandable you would not know proper grammar.
I know someone who is Thai and while they admit learning their own language grammar in school, while knowing how to speak the language as taught by family as a child, was incredibly difficult, they said learning English grammar was even worse.
Don't let yourself feel bad about that.
God knows your heart.
As to the correction you received concerning the word, without any explanation as to the correct usage, of "Affect", is of no good use. This may help you to understand. It is my hope that it does. God continue to keep your strength in His light and against all darkness that confronts you.
Affect is always a verb - Towson University
While affect is always a verb, effect is usually a noun . As a noun, effect means "theresult," "the change," or "the influence." As affect , a verb " produces a change," effect, a noun, is the"change" or "result." Example of effect usedas a noun Since effect means an"influence" in this sentence, it is the correct word to use here.
If English is not your first language, and that is not meant to insult you at all, it is understandable you would not know proper grammar.
I know someone who is Thai and while they admit learning their own language grammar in school, while knowing how to speak the language as taught by family as a child, was incredibly difficult, they said learning English grammar was even worse.
Don't let yourself feel bad about that.
God knows your heart.
As to the correction you received concerning the word, without any explanation as to the correct usage, of "Affect", is of no good use. This may help you to understand. It is my hope that it does. God continue to keep your strength in His light and against all darkness that confronts you.
Affect is always a verb - Towson University
While affect is always a verb, effect is usually a noun . As a noun, effect means "theresult," "the change," or "the influence." As affect , a verb " produces a change," effect, a noun, is the"change" or "result." Example of effect usedas a noun Since effect means an"influence" in this sentence, it is the correct word to use here.
Sure. Post 1526:
Just because it's "my" faith, doesn't mean it wasn't given to me as a gift from God. I recognize EVERYTHING I have, all my abilities, my family, and ANYTHING else good you can possibly imagine, is a gift from God.
James 1:17 New International Version (NIV)
17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
For a fuller answer you can read post #778
Just because it's "my" faith, doesn't mean it wasn't given to me as a gift from God. I recognize EVERYTHING I have, all my abilities, my family, and ANYTHING else good you can possibly imagine, is a gift from God.
James 1:17 New International Version (NIV)
17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
For a fuller answer you can read post #778
-
3
-
1
- Show all
I was searching for something and came across your posts and responses to them. I have to say, I am so sorry you're being berated for your faith, and mocked and attacked due to your use of wording in your posts.
If English is not your first language, and that is not meant to insult you at all, it is understandable you would not know proper grammar.
I know someone who is Thai and while they admit learning their own language grammar in school, while knowing how to speak the language as taught by family as a child, was incredibly difficult, they said learning English grammar was even worse.
Don't let yourself feel bad about that.
God knows your heart.
As to the correction you received concerning the word, without any explanation as to the correct usage, of "Affect", is of no good use. This may help you to understand. It is my hope that it does. God continue to keep your strength in His light and against all darkness that confronts you.
Affect is always a verb - Towson University
While affect is always a verb, effect is usually a noun . As a noun, effect means "theresult," "the change," or "the influence." As affect , a verb " produces a change," effect, a noun, is the"change" or "result." Example of effect usedas a noun Since effect means an"influence" in this sentence, it is the correct word to use here.
If English is not your first language, and that is not meant to insult you at all, it is understandable you would not know proper grammar.
I know someone who is Thai and while they admit learning their own language grammar in school, while knowing how to speak the language as taught by family as a child, was incredibly difficult, they said learning English grammar was even worse.
Don't let yourself feel bad about that.
God knows your heart.
As to the correction you received concerning the word, without any explanation as to the correct usage, of "Affect", is of no good use. This may help you to understand. It is my hope that it does. God continue to keep your strength in His light and against all darkness that confronts you.
Affect is always a verb - Towson University
While affect is always a verb, effect is usually a noun . As a noun, effect means "theresult," "the change," or "the influence." As affect , a verb " produces a change," effect, a noun, is the"change" or "result." Example of effect usedas a noun Since effect means an"influence" in this sentence, it is the correct word to use here.
English is my first language . Proper grammar paying attention in school was not.
How would effect usually be a noun? Could it be used as a verb. Like with God cause and effect? let there be and there was..
It's not your faith. It's not my faith. It's the faith of Jesus Christ.
Asking Jesus to save you from your sins is not saving yourself. Coming to a realization of the eternal jeopardy that your soul is in is not decisional regeneration. It is surrendering your will to the will of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Asking Jesus to save you from your sins is not saving yourself. Coming to a realization of the eternal jeopardy that your soul is in is not decisional regeneration. It is surrendering your will to the will of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Of course it's the faith of Jesus Christ. And He has gifted that faith to us. I think THAT'S the point I've been making all along. Otherwise WHERE does that faith come from.
But your post STILL, no matter how many ways you slice and dice it, doesn't answer the primary question of WHY YOU BELIEVE.
WHY did you come to the realization that you were in eternal jeopardy?
WHY did you believe in God to begin with to surrender your will?
WHY do you believe the Bible is the Word of God?
MANY others have heard and read the Word yet DON'T believe. SO WHY DO YOU?
But your post STILL, no matter how many ways you slice and dice it, doesn't answer the primary question of WHY YOU BELIEVE.
WHY did you come to the realization that you were in eternal jeopardy?
WHY did you believe in God to begin with to surrender your will?
WHY do you believe the Bible is the Word of God?
MANY others have heard and read the Word yet DON'T believe. SO WHY DO YOU?
I came to know Christ because there were a good number of born again Christians praying to God that I would become saved. Many a tear was shed for me to be saved.
Calvinism is an easy way to explain why God does what He does. It fails miserably to comprehend Gods love for even a single soul that is lost.
The why is not Gods will. The why is Gods love. If it were Gods will all would be saved. All are loved by God and God takes no pleasure in their destruction.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Calvinism is an easy way to explain why God does what He does. It fails miserably to comprehend Gods love for even a single soul that is lost.
The why is not Gods will. The why is Gods love. If it were Gods will all would be saved. All are loved by God and God takes no pleasure in their destruction.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Careful there. That's a mighty Calvinistic way of saying ppl were praying for God to save you. They weren't praying for God to 'try' to save you, but to save you. That's a mighty Calvinistic way of putting it.
Exactly!!! Bingo!! Now you're getting it!! By jove, I think he got it!!
Oh, you mean theses ppl?
The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity. You destroy those who speak falsehood; The LORD abhors the man of bloodshed and deceit.[Psalm 5:5-6]
There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil, A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers.[Proverbs 6:16-19]
Notice, this not only speaks of ppl's deeds, but also the ppl. You can not divorce the sin from the sinner. It is the sinner that gets cast headlong into the lake of fire my friend.
Everything that comes to pass is part of God's will. Even that which we can not truly comprehend is part of His divine sovereign will. But you saying God loves everybody equally is not true. His wrath is on the children of disobedience[John 3:36]
Exactly!!! Bingo!! Now you're getting it!! By jove, I think he got it!!
Oh, you mean theses ppl?
The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity. You destroy those who speak falsehood; The LORD abhors the man of bloodshed and deceit.[Psalm 5:5-6]
There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil, A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers.[Proverbs 6:16-19]
Notice, this not only speaks of ppl's deeds, but also the ppl. You can not divorce the sin from the sinner. It is the sinner that gets cast headlong into the lake of fire my friend.
Everything that comes to pass is part of God's will. Even that which we can not truly comprehend is part of His divine sovereign will. But you saying God loves everybody equally is not true. His wrath is on the children of disobedience[John 3:36]
Romans 9:19 - 23 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory.
Careful there. That's a mighty Calvinistic way of saying ppl were praying for God to save you. They weren't praying for God to 'try' to save you, but to save you. That's a mighty Calvinistic way of putting it.
Exactly!!! Bingo!! Now you're getting it!! By jove, I think he got it!!
Oh, you mean theses ppl?
The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity. You destroy those who speak falsehood; The LORD abhors the man of bloodshed and deceit.[Psalm 5:5-6]
There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil, A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers.[Proverbs 6:16-19]
Notice, this not only speaks of ppl's deeds, but also the ppl. You can not divorce the sin from the sinner. It is the sinner that gets cast headlong into the lake of fire my friend.
Everything that comes to pass is part of God's will. Even that which we can not truly comprehend is part of His divine sovereign will. But you saying God loves everybody equally is not true. His wrath is on the children of disobedience[John 3:36]
Exactly!!! Bingo!! Now you're getting it!! By jove, I think he got it!!
Oh, you mean theses ppl?
The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity. You destroy those who speak falsehood; The LORD abhors the man of bloodshed and deceit.[Psalm 5:5-6]
There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil, A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers.[Proverbs 6:16-19]
Notice, this not only speaks of ppl's deeds, but also the ppl. You can not divorce the sin from the sinner. It is the sinner that gets cast headlong into the lake of fire my friend.
Everything that comes to pass is part of God's will. Even that which we can not truly comprehend is part of His divine sovereign will. But you saying God loves everybody equally is not true. His wrath is on the children of disobedience[John 3:36]
Man was created in the image and likeness of God. Man has a will that can respond to God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
-
1
- Show all
God loved the world yes, He sent His son. Does not mean God currently is presently loving Kim Jong too much. God would not send people to hell if He loved them. God loved (past tense) them when He sent the Son, but if they did not repent and turn to the Son, the wrath of God remains on them. This is said right after the John 3:16 you referenced:
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Wrath of God abideth on him, not love, but wrath. Couldn't be any clearer
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Wrath of God abideth on him, not love, but wrath. Couldn't be any clearer