Consciousness Goes Deeper Than You Think Awareness can be part of it, but it’s much more than that

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Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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#1
Consciousness Goes Deeper Than You Think
Awareness can be part of it, but it’s much more than that.
Scientific American
  • Bernardo Kastrup


An article on the neuroscience of infant consciousness, which attracted some interest a few years ago, asked: “When does your baby become conscious?” The premise, of course, was that babies aren’t born conscious but, instead, develop consciousness at some point. (According to the article, it is about five months of age). Yet, it is hard to think that there is nothing it feels like to be a newborn.
Newborns clearly seem to experience their own bodies, environment, the presence of their parents, etcetera—albeit in an unreflective, present-oriented manner. And if it always feels like something to be a baby, then babies don’t become conscious. Instead, they are conscious from the get-go.

The problem is that, somewhat alarmingly, the word “consciousness” is often used in the literature as if it entailed or implied more than just the qualities of experience. Dijksterhuis and Nordgren, for instance, insisted that “it is very important to realize that attention is the key to distinguish between unconscious thought and conscious thought. Conscious thought is thought with attention.” This implies that if a thought escapes attention, then it is unconscious. But is the mere lack of attention enough to assert that a mental process lacks the qualities of experience? Couldn’t a process that escapes the focus of attention still feel like something?

[full article]

I use to care for newborns that were as young as "zero hours" old.
It was a blessing and intriguing to watch their eyes adjust to the world of lights and sound.
Then the older one's, those who were days old, would lay cradled in my arms and I'd watch their face as they gazed about the room. Eyes wide, they'd crinkle up now and then, and little mouths would move as to smile, as it appeared they were watching something that these old eyes did not see.

Our Lord tells us we must become like little children so as to see the Kingdom of Heaven. (The Book of Matthew chapter 18)

Babies show us in their pure spontaneity what we have grown to take for granted.
I hope you enjoy this article. And if you are blessed to have a newborn to snuggle, please snuggle them one for me.

God bless the child. Amen
 
Sep 29, 2019
394
170
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#2
Consciousness Goes Deeper Than You Think
Awareness can be part of it, but it’s much more than that.
Scientific American
  • Bernardo Kastrup


An article on the neuroscience of infant consciousness, which attracted some interest a few years ago, asked: “When does your baby become conscious?” The premise, of course, was that babies aren’t born conscious but, instead, develop consciousness at some point. (According to the article, it is about five months of age). Yet, it is hard to think that there is nothing it feels like to be a newborn.
Newborns clearly seem to experience their own bodies, environment, the presence of their parents, etcetera—albeit in an unreflective, present-oriented manner. And if it always feels like something to be a baby, then babies don’t become conscious. Instead, they are conscious from the get-go.

The problem is that, somewhat alarmingly, the word “consciousness” is often used in the literature as if it entailed or implied more than just the qualities of experience. Dijksterhuis and Nordgren, for instance, insisted that “it is very important to realize that attention is the key to distinguish between unconscious thought and conscious thought. Conscious thought is thought with attention.” This implies that if a thought escapes attention, then it is unconscious. But is the mere lack of attention enough to assert that a mental process lacks the qualities of experience? Couldn’t a process that escapes the focus of attention still feel like something?

[full article]

I use to care for newborns that were as young as "zero hours" old.
It was a blessing and intriguing to watch their eyes adjust to the world of lights and sound.
Then the older one's, those who were days old, would lay cradled in my arms and I'd watch their face as they gazed about the room. Eyes wide, they'd crinkle up now and then, and little mouths would move as to smile, as it appeared they were watching something that these old eyes did not see.

Our Lord tells us we must become like little children so as to see the Kingdom of Heaven. (The Book of Matthew chapter 18)

Babies show us in their pure spontaneity what we have grown to take for granted.
I hope you enjoy this article. And if you are blessed to have a newborn to snuggle, please snuggle them one for me.

God bless the child. Amen
An interesting article. It would seem to me to suggest that consciousness is a spectrum. What seems to grow through us is our ability to know. Babies are aware and conscious in a direct experiential way, but maybe what they lack is the knowing that they are conscious. Maybe learning is also knowing?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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#3
Our consciousness creates. The universe is our collective consciousness.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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www.christiancourier.com
#4
An interesting article. It would seem to me to suggest that consciousness is a spectrum. What seems to grow through us is our ability to know. Babies are aware and conscious in a direct experiential way, but maybe what they lack is the knowing that they are conscious. Maybe learning is also knowing?
Knowing or recalling? It is said we are imprinted with all knowledge and what we are then taught by parents, teachers, etc... is that resonance, if you will, that connects the doorway to that knowledge and opens it as a matter of recall.

It's fascinating what is being discovered about the human psyche. We are so much more than we think. ;) :) Thank you for your reply to the article.
 
Sep 29, 2019
394
170
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#5
Knowing or recalling? It is said we are imprinted with all knowledge and what we are then taught by parents, teachers, etc... is that resonance, if you will, that connects the doorway to that knowledge and opens it as a matter of recall.

It's fascinating what is being discovered about the human psyche. We are so much more than we think. ;):) Thank you for your reply to the article.
I think it was Plato who said that all learning is remembering. All knowledge is implicit and in potential in the fabric of reality, but is only consciously realised through us and the unfoldment of time. For in order to know there must be something specific to know. Just as we can only love when there is something to love.

I like your approach whispered. You seem alot more open minded than many of the Christians on here.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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#6
I think it was Plato who said that all learning is remembering. All knowledge is implicit and in potential in the fabric of reality, but is only consciously realised through us and the unfoldment of time. For in order to know there must be something specific to know. Just as we can only love when there is something to love.

I like your approach whispered. You seem alot more open minded than many of the Christians on here.
Platonic epistemology being validated by today's science in any way is fascinating to me.

Don't let the negativity in this forum get you down. What I do, when I choose to pay it attention, is read them and superimpose one of my favorite artists rendering of Jesus behind the words. Then I picture him saying them.
That would never happen. Such words would never leave our Saviors lips. It puts it into perspective then to realize whom is actually "speaking", when they type such things toward those who are in Christ.

Because after all, we're to follow the example of our Lord, and have His same mindset.
That He was God in the form of a man makes that a tall order of course, God knows, however we're to first realize we are a temple that carries within us that Holy Spirit that is God. Realizing that, realizing all the scriptures that show us what God was like in times of trouble, conflict, woe, joy, etc... I think makes it easier to find our center and remind ourselves as to what Christ would say, do, feel, counsel.

For the really tough nuts that appear to worship the god of hate, ridicule, demeaning remarks, slander, and sarcasm, I remind myself of Jesus wisdom:
You have heard that it was said,
"Love your neighbor and hate your enemy."
But I tell you: Love your enemies
and pray for those who persecute you.
The Book of Matthew chapter 5:43-44
Hoping it would do them well to remember it too.



Stay strong brother. (hugs you)

The River of Life has no meaning, no good, no bad,
no better, no worse, no love, no hate, no fear, no anger, no joy.
The River of Life has no judgment, no expectation.
The River of Life just IS. There is nothing to do.
There is nothing to say.
There is nothing to think.
There is nothing to feel.
The River just flows. The River is the source of all nourishment -
the source of all obstacles.
The River is the source of all life - the source of all death.
The River is the source of all joy - and the source of all sorrow.
Yet the River has no joy - and the River has no sorrow.
The River is just the River.
One can flow harmoniously with the River -
or one can struggle fearfully against the River -
and the River just flows.
One can accept the River - or one can deny the River -
and the River just flows.
One can worship the River of Life - or one can curse the River of Life -
and the River just flows. There is nothing to do - and the River flows.
There is nothing to say - and the River flows.
There is nothing to think - and the River flows.
There is nothing to feel - and the River flows.
The River flows - and all else is our drama.
The River flows - and all else is our invention.
Jonathan Lockwood Huie aka/ "The Philosopher of Happiness"

 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,554
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#8
I remember when my daughter was six months old she really connected with me in a special way..... I had been patting her back to get up the air bubbles and it seems I was constantly patting her back. At six months one day as I was patting her back she started patting my back.....I took that as she was saying I like that Mommy and I want to let you know how it feels good to me so I will pat your back too.... I loved it as it felt like she was acknowledging our connection.
 
Sep 29, 2019
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#9
Our consciousness creates. The universe is our collective consciousness.
In the beginning was consciousness. And without him was not anything made that was made. That consciousness is the light of men. Consciousness shines in the darkness, but the darkness comprehended it not.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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#10
In the beginning was consciousness. And without him was not anything made that was made. That consciousness is the light of men. Consciousness shines in the darkness, but the darkness comprehended it not.
Consciousness dwells in the hearts/minds of men and nowhere else. And God asks, "can God dwell in houses built by human hands?"
The answer to this question is a resounding No.

Ecc 3:9What does the worker gain from his toil? 10I have seen the burden that God has laid on men to occupy them. 11He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men, yet they cannot fathom the work that God has done from beginning to end.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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#11
In the beginning was consciousness. And without him was not anything made that was made. That consciousness is the light of men. Consciousness shines in the darkness, but the darkness comprehended it not.
Well done. :)
God Consciousness is the reality within and of the Omniscient Omnipresent Omnipotent Omni-genesis, Omni-Benevolence that is Holy Spirit. God of course is self aware. I AM that I am. [The Book of Exodus chapter 3]

Our Lord Emmanuel (God with us), Jesus, was the most self aware "person" to exist. "I and my Father are One." "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and The Word was God." The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. "
(Hopefully those opposed to that are not thinking of Conscience, rather than Consciousness. That would understandably lend to confusion in this discussion. )

The Book of Acts chapter 17:24 The God that made the world and all things therein, he, being Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in [j]temples made with hands; 25 neither is he served by men’s hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he himself giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; 26 and he made of one every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed seasons, and the bounds of their habitation; 27 that they should seek God, if haply they might feel after him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us: 28 for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain even of your own poets have said,For we are also his offspring. 29 Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that [k]the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and device of man. 30 The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked; but now he [l]commandeth men that they should all everywhere repent: 31 inasmuch as he hath appointed a day in which he will judge [m]the world in righteousness [n]by [o]the man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

FOOTNOTES



"Deep in each man is the knowledge that something knows of his existence. Something knows, and cannot be fled nor hid from." Cormac McCarthy, "The Crossing"