Homosexuality and The Church: Gay Bashing From The Pulpit

Fire7 · Mar 23, 2011

For the people who say that no one can be born gay, what do you say about animals that are homosexual??? And before you try to dispute this FACT, feel free to look it up. Don't take my word for it, but several studies have shown that many species in the animal kingdom are genetically homosexual--from lions to birds. Some penguins even have homosexual families--where two male birds will raise a chick.

So what ydo you say about these gay animals? Do they have a homosexual spirit in them? Are they going to hell?

And what also do you say about human beings who were born as hermaphrodites, with both sexes, having to choose which one they feel most comfortable with?

What also happens to the soul of a person who gets a sex change procedure done on them? What if they accept Jesus AFTER they got the sex change? Are they damned to hell because they are living as the opposite sex? And what if a christian gets a sex change and changes his or her mind later on?

Khorib2 · Mar 23, 2011

Sweetheart1987 said:

I hate to tell you,but you're wrong.There IS something wrong with being homosexual,and it IS wrong. The Bible clearly states that homosexuals will NOT enter/inherit the kingdom of God. There's no and,if,or but about it. God's word stand true and speaks for itself. You can't be gay and be a Christian. How so? well,it's an abomination.It is wicked,it's not of God at all,I mean it's clearly against God's word. There's so many verses on it. Now can someone become a Christian that's homosexual? yes,how? they must repent,in other words turn away from it,do not practice or live in the homosexual lifestyle. To deny that it's wrong to be homosexual,and to say that one can be homosexual and a Christan,is to deny the true word of God,and it's a slap in the face to Him as well. It's just wrong as can be.Also, who says that you can't separate our identity from our sexuality,or our sexuality from our spirituality is a load of bull! We have a choice things,a will. We choose if we want to do or participate in something or not. If you know the word of God clearly speaks against such a thing,yet you choose to do it,you're treading on mighty dangerous ground. To say such a thing as we can't separate things,is simply an excuse for not wanting to take responsibility for the choices that we make. Something that's wicked,sinful,etc. is clearly not of or from God. I can't believe how many so called ''Christians'' are accepting homosexuality so openly,and the homosexuals are so proud of themselves and the choice they make. It's disgusting,it makes my stomach turn!(that being how proud they are of it,not the fact they're homosexual). I know Jesus died to forgive all sin,but here's the thing,you can NOT live in and practice sin,and yet call yourself a Christian. You aren't being one,as a Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ,the Word of God....it's surrendering to God,and turning away from all old ways,sinful desire,etc. Someone obviously isn't doing that if they continue to live in and do what they know is wrong and a sin,that God's word is so strongly against. Look at Sodom and Gomorrah in the Bible,self explanatory. Anyone can love God,that does NOT however mean they're a Christian. I loved God when I was a kid,and in my teen years before I got saved. Oh I was passionate about Him,I just loved church so much,and everything else. I even went around singing worship/praise and Christian songs pretty much all the time,but I wasn't saved at the time. Just like Satan himself,and his ''fallen angels" aka demons, they even know the word of God. How else would they use it to twist it around,pollute it,change it around,etc? All right then,enough said.

Hate to break it to you, but there is something terribly wrong with just being human in the eyes of God. The whole point is to grow beyond humanity. All sin is equal, that means that homosexuality is on par with lying. Self-righteously judging homosexuals would make you and/or anyone else a hypocrite in the regard. God is the only judge. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

jimmydiggs · Mar 23, 2011

Fire7 said:

I don't have to say anything, someone else did for me.

Nope, read the above quotation.

Animals don't have a soul. Hell is not an option. Atleast, that is my understanding of hell.

I wouldn't blame God for biological defects caused as a result of the fall.

To be quite honest, I don't feel up to tackling this one.

Sweetheart1987 · Mar 23, 2011

I hate to break it to you but I didn't judge anyone. So get over yourself,same for all the others who disagree with God's word. you're all being foolish. I'm not even bothering with this pointless,ungodly thread anymore. Which is why I haven't bothered to respond to the other moronic responses people have posted. I've decided it's not worth the argument anymore,because all of you are blind to the truth and set in your ways. So why bother wasting time,energy,and effort when I can be praising God,rejoicing in Him,and serving Him with a much bigger purpose elsewhere. So God bless each of you,and help each of you to see the truth!

David_1 · Mar 23, 2011

How many Iraqi Children have Gay people killed in the last decade?

Strike that, how many innocent Christian Iraqi children have been killed in the last 10 years by Gay people...Vs say Politicians who claim to be Conservative Christians?

If we can get these numbers right, then we probably know what's a worse evil in the world.

EDIT: Sorry folks, just realised my Rhetoric may not work, considering the extremely high number of Republican politicians coming out of the closet.

jimmydiggs · Mar 23, 2011

David_1 said:

This isn't an issue of Republican Vs. Democrat. This isn't an issue of Iraqi vs. non-iraqi. This isn't an issue of homosexual people vs. heterosexual people.

This is an issue of Man Vs. God.

Breelynn · Mar 23, 2011

who would want to be an abomination to the Lord? You can not say you are a christian and be homosexual it goes against what the bible teaches!

Sweetheart1987 · Mar 23, 2011

Breelynn said:

Hello! Thank you! that's what I've been trying to tell them. None of them agree though. They can say they are,but they aren't. They profess to be,but they obviously haven't confessed to Christ. If they did,they didn't mean it or something,cause you can NOT be homosexual,and be a Christian,it's just NOT possible at all.Be prepared dear,they'll attack you next. They all gang up and try to point their fingers at you and say that it's YOU who is wrong. Just pray for them,wish them all the best,and say God bless them. Thank you for helping take a stand FOR the truth rather than AGAINST it!

Breelynn · Mar 23, 2011

1 cor 6:9-10 lev 18:22-23 rom 1 :25-27

Fire7 · Mar 24, 2011

The point I was making with this thread was that Christians can be very insensitive, and even cruel to the bone, not only on ths issue, but especially when it comes to this issue. And as predicted, everyone has rabbit trailed all around the issue at hand, which is bashing=insensitivity. But judging by the responses, many of you see no problem with it. Because to you, the mark of a true prophet is one who goes around being rude; insulting people and verbaly abusing them into submission...when the bible--the same one you're preaching to me out of--says that love is not "rude", among several other things that you all do.

AnandaHya · Mar 24, 2011

Fire7 said:

there is so much anger and despair in that post that I haven't really posted anything on this thread in a while but I must say that it should not be about being insensitive, cruel or gay bashing. God is loving but he is our Heavenly father and must sometimes correct ALL His children, not just gay people. God loves us and if we are to be His children then we should strive to be more like Him in our hearts and souls. There is no place for darkness and hate for people striving to be more like God who is light. People are still working on it but we should strive for the goal of perfection and holiness.

Anyways I will pray for everyone on this thread

Dear Lord, You are and awesome God and you know what happens here more then I do so I just pray that your will be done, that your grace rain down upon the people who visit this thread and purify the words of the people so that they help rather then hurt people. that they do not become stumbling blocks for your faithful but instead that Your Holy Spirit show them all the Truth and your Love and your grace. Help them learn of their sin, soften their hearts and let allow us to repent and be forgiven and healed through the blood of jesus who died for the redemption of our sins. In Jesus name I pray, Amen

Remember everyone's God's love letter

YouTube - God's love letter

AnandaHya · Mar 24, 2011

Remember God's word's Hebrew 12 and be children of GOD

The Discipline of God

3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. 4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. 5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons:

“ My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
6 For whom the LORD loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives.”[a]

7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
Renew Your Spiritual Vitality

12 Therefore strengthen the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees, 13 and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be dislocated, but rather be healed.
14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; 16 lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. 17 For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears.

Breelynn · Mar 24, 2011

we shouldn't bash it from the pulpit because bashing people isn't going to help people turn away from sin but we shouldn't accept the sin either. It should be approached very sensitivity but not be conformed to the idea that it's okay.

Phoebzter · Mar 24, 2011

I believe that we all have a story behind why we respond to questions posed here like we do. Our experiences in life shape the way we respond to and think about certain topics. But regardless of what our experiences seems to tell us, our ultimate truth and discernment should come from the Holy Spirit. I think we can all agree on that....hopefully. Does the bible speak specifically about homosexuality? Absolutely. When it comes down to the Hebrew and Greek, the english translation does not fully capture the orignal meaning. I am not saying the english translation is faulty, I am just saying ask the Holy Spirit to guide you in all truth when it comes to this matter. God always, always looks at the heart of us, while we look each from an outward standpoint.

Gay-bashing from the pulpit: Totally immature, insensitive, and ineffective in winning and steering people towards Christ. I think pastors resort to this sort of thing when they simply do not understand the issue at hand. Their ignorance in such matters comes out when they criticize and judge, what they can not relate to, wrap their minds around, or what makes them a little uncomfortable. It's a whole lot easier to make blanket judgements about the thing we can not explain or relate to. It just shows an inability to step out of their neat little "right" bubble and take a walk with humanity. It says : "I see you down there, oh miserable sinner, and I'm too comfortable up here to ask you what it is your needing." All the while that pastor never realizes that if he would just lower his nose a bit he would see that he is on same level as that "miserable sinner".

This is not always the case, but often times the people, I.E. out spoken preaches who bashing certain issues like homosexuality, pornography, masturbation, are often times dealing with those very issues themselves.

Also, I would say if you want to reach out to someone who is struggling with this, or not (they have identified as gay or lesbian) I would advise not saying the phrase "Hate the sin love the sinner". To them, if they are gay or lesbian it is who they are at their very core. It never translates well. When you say that, what you are meaning is that I accept all of you, but that thing that you embrace. To them it means, you hate me because I am that thing. It doesn't work out well.

unclefester · Mar 24, 2011

David_1 said:

This is a silly argument David. Let's first count those Iraqi citizens killed by their former dictator Saddam Hussein. It is estimated upwards to 1,000,000 with countless more being tortured and imprisoned. I'll forgo Saddam's and his sons rape rooms for the time being. Having said this, I'll concede the point that gay people aren't responsible for the deaths of Iraqi children if you'll concede the point that Saddam and his thugs are.

Liberal Christians and conservative Christians both should find Saddam's actions deplorable. This quote from Wikipedia extracted from the liberal press NY Times ....

"According to The New York Times, "he [Saddam] murdered as many as a million of his people, many with poison gas. He tortured, maimed and imprisoned countless more. His unprovoked invasion of Iran is estimated to have left another million people dead. His seizure of Kuwait threw the Middle East into crisis. More insidious, arguably, was the psychological damage he inflicted on his own land. Hussein created a nation of informants — friends on friends, circles within circles — making an entire population complicit in his rule".[8] Others have estimated 800,000 deaths caused by Saddam not counting the Iran-Iraq war.[9] Estimates as to the number of Iraqis executed by Saddam's regime vary from 300-500,000[10] to over 600,000,[11] estimates as to the number of Kurds he massacred vary from 70,000 to 300,000,[12] and estimates as to the number killed in the put-down of the 1991 rebellion vary from 60,000[13] to 200,000.[11] Estimates for the number of dead in the Iran-Iraq war range upwards from 300,000.[14]

David_1 · Mar 24, 2011

unclefester said:

I've never heard the argument made so simply yet thought provoking as this before David. Have to admit that your statement has caused me to consider much on the matter. There are many things that I struggle to reconcile concerning God's word... even at my age. The topic of homosexuality is one of them. If I'm being honest with myself, I would have to admit that my views on the matter would be greatly influenced if one of my now grown children or siblings were a declared homosexual. It would be impossible for me to abandon or forsake them......or even judge them, for that matter. It would be all the more difficult for me to live my life thinking that they're doomed for hell, as many in the christian faith strictly believe. The truth of the matter is that this topic is avoided by many simply because there is no viable means to come to terms with it.....biblically speaking. Another example for me was God asking Abraham to sacrifice Isaac on the altar to prove his faithfulness. Didn't God already know Abraham's heart ? And who today could claim that they'd be willing to do such a thing with their own child ? I know I couldn't. What does this make me besides a father that would rather die for his own than to see them subjected to such a thing ? There are many points that could be brought up where we all would fall short of what we seem to think God is demanding of us. In all of the confusion, I have resolved to trust that God is infinitely wiser and more loving than any of us could ever hope to be. And for the sake of all of us, I pray that He is infinitely more merciful and understanding than what we christians are capable of being because of the dilemma's placed before us.

Rob

Thanks Rob. I pretty much agree with what you have said.

David_1 · Mar 24, 2011

unclefester said:

I think all war criminals should be tried.

That includes the current Nobel Peace Prize dude that still supports illegal off-shoring of Torture and illegal imprisonment.

But perhaps we will have to leave that up to the Maker, to dish out Justice

Because no one really has the power to do this.

But that being aside, whether you wanna blame Saddam (He's dead now) or whatever.... I'm sure these guys have ruined more lives, brought more terror on the earth than gay people have.

But what are Christians focused on? "Get the Gays".

No where in the Bible does God say Christianity is a two issue faith. Gays and Abortion.

It is a Republican thing. Why? Look at the rise of the Religious Right? Prior to that Christians actively kept out of Politics. Then some people decided to Combine the two. God's Own party? (The very term is disgusting).

Guess what guys, it doesn't just stay in the US borders, the Religious Right Propaganda has spread to other Countries. My Country, African countries.

It's an evil perversion.

It's NOT what Christ taught, it's NOT what Christ ordained.

It's perverted.

jimmydiggs · Mar 24, 2011

David_1 said:

This part has nothing to do with homosexuality, whether it is or isn't a sin, and how it should or shouldn't be dealt with.

Although, on the war criminals issue you might wanna read the OT. Especially Samson and Joshua.

Certain groups like the WBC, yes. I would agree on that. To lump all Christians in like that seems rather silly. Given that you are not from America, I'll be merciful on that issue.

Agreed.

One of many verses that agree with you.
Rev 21:8
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

You're the only one who has brought politics into this that I know of. You are the only one so far who has mentioned political parties.

Which part, the fusing of Churches and the GOP? That I would agree with.

Christ did say to go and sin no more.

What I do not like is the hypocrisy. You're claiming the religious right is sooooo terrible, yet invoking your preference for the religious left.

Please, be consistant. Let's stick to the topic though. I'll help.

If God says something, does it matter?

If God says, Do this, don't do this. Should we do that, should we not do that?

Is the bible God's word? If it isn't, then we have a serious issue. If it is, then we have an even more serious issue. It would mean we have sin to deal with, and must deal with it regardless of what our bent out of shape emotions tell us to do.

Fire7 · Mar 24, 2011

Phoebzter said:

I agree

You also make an excellent point with the "love the sinner, hate the sin" concept. I have thought this for a long time, and I have heard that phrase so much that it has become a christian cliche' to me. You might say that "God hates tyhe sin, not the sinner", but it is the sinner who God sends to hell, not the sin. So, it's not as simple as people try to make it.

I doubt that preachers ever really think about the far reaching effects that their words have on the world. The bible says that "Life and death are in the power of the tongue." I cannot even attempt to count the number of times that a preacher's hate speach, projected under the guise of "righteous ingdignation" inspired a hate crime by a war moger who was just looking for an excuse or liscence to murder someone he was prejudice against. And if you have ever read societal statistics, you would know that gay people lead the roster in the amount of suicides. There are children who have committed suicide because they could no longer take the constant, unmerciful bullying of their peers calling them "faggots", "sissies", "punks" and "queers", etc..., etc...

Another thing that many homosexuals deal with to a degree that most people don't know or understand, is the deep sense of rejection, shame, and abandonment that they carry. Yet, they are always being pushed away and told they are dirty and should be ashamed of themselves, which only adds to their pain and pushes them further away from developing intimate relationships (with people and G-d). You can call it being "soft", "wimpy" or whatever names you like to use to make yourself feel brute. But the very makeup of hman beings is so intricate and delicate that scientists are even now fnding out what the bible has been saying all along. They are finding that people literally change the chemistry of other people they come in contact with. Words, together with light and sound actually change the DNA of a person. There was even an experiment done on two jars of rice. Words were written on two sheets of paper--one sheet with only negative words--the other sheets with only positive words. These sheets were were taped around the jars where the words were facing the rice. The scientists came back months later to find that the rice with the negative words around it a spoiled (molded, black, and rotten) much faster than the rice (which still had volume and color to it) with the positive words. And you mean to tell that words don't have power? Everything in this world has tangible energy in it--even our thoughts. even christian (along with secular) researchers will tell you that. Our problem is we don't take the word of G-d as seriously as we pretend to..when it states that we will be judged for every single, solitary word that came out of our mouths. Maybe because unlike us, G-d can see the far far reaching effect that words have.

I'm not trying to criticize ministers. I believe in honoring and having a certai level of respect for those who came before us. The bible says that we are to obey authority and it commands us to honor our parents (that goes for spiritual parents also). In that same passage, he tells parents not to provoke their children to wrath. And I think that because of pride, arrogance, and the need to feel important, many leaders misuse their position and abuse their power and authority, which in turn, provokes people to further rebellion instead of bringing them closer to G-d. You catch more bees with honey than you do vinegar. And the bible says "With love and kindness have I drawn the." Many of us just gaurd the judgment and wrath passages in the bible because it feeds into our own negativity. So, we try to paint a portrait with one broad stroke--making blanket judgments and statements out of our flesh. But does anything good come out of flesh? Can you ever get light out of darkness? Can you reproduce the Spirit out of the law--when G-d's own word says "The law of the letter kills, but it's the Spirit that brings life?

I am convinced of this fact. Unless the Holy Spirit enlightens you (the heterosexual), you will never and could never understand the mentality of a homosexual. Change can only come from a higher power. What homosexuals need, like any other "sinner"--but especially homosexuals, is discipleship--proper fathering and mothering--which can only come out of a pure spirit.

marcybeast · Mar 24, 2011

i agree with sweetheart, we should go by what God has told us in his word.

Homosexuality and The Church: Gay Bashing From The Pulpit

Fire7

Guest

Khorib2

Guest

jimmydiggs

Guest

Sweetheart1987

Guest

David_1

Banned

jimmydiggs

Guest

Breelynn

Guest

Sweetheart1987

Guest

Breelynn

Guest

Fire7

Guest

AnandaHya

Guest

AnandaHya

Guest

Breelynn

Guest

Phoebzter

Guest

unclefester

Guest

David_1

Banned

David_1

Banned

jimmydiggs

Guest

Fire7

Guest

marcybeast

Junior Member