Is God A Moral Monster?

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NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
did God not know? of course He did. so why ask a question that you already know the answer to?
what's God doing by that? what's taking place?
When God asks you, or anyone else a question He already knows the answers to?
He wants to "hear" from YOU! For He "created" YOU! He wants to "heal" YOU! He wants to strengthen YOU!
He doesn't wanna hear "chapter and verse", or, What yer pastor said in his/her "sermon." Er what this guy, er that guy wrote in some book, or pamphlet.
He WANTS to hear YOUR "GRASP" OF THE SITUATION!
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Allow me to clarify: There is no difference in that: God judges sin, its the same God, God is Holy, God is unchanging.
It is a pity you did not say that in your post.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
We are not God for crying out loud. If you follow that line of thinking, you will have Christians blowing people up. Stop that sort of talk immediately.
There's NO SUCH CRITTER, as a "CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR", in God's Army!

If the "vengeance of God" doesn't work through you?
Then, "His vengeance" is turned TOWARDS you!
Like it or not? Want it to be like that, or not?
Gee, that's just too bad, cupcake!
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
If a Christian reads God telling Moses to wipe out an ancient nation, how would that inspire Christians to do the same today? The commandment was given in a different time to different people, that commandment has no bearing on us today, even if we were following JUDAISM. Jews understand that, it was a commandment given THEN, not a universal commandment, and even if it was universal those nations do not exist anymore.
Really!?
When's the last time you voted, eh?
Time is almost here, when "plausible deniability", ain't gonna help ya none!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
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When God asks you, or anyone else a question He already knows the answers to?
He wants to "hear" from YOU! For He "created" YOU! He wants to "heal" YOU! He wants to strengthen YOU!
He doesn't wanna hear "chapter and verse", or, What yer pastor said in his/her "sermon." Er what this guy, er that guy wrote in some book, or pamphlet.
He WANTS to hear YOUR "GRASP" OF THE SITUATION!
This makes "why does He ask Satan where he has been in Job 1:7?" a very interesting question, too

God knows exactly where he had been and exactly what he had been doing. He also knows exactly what Satan's 'grasp' of those things are - nothing is hidden from God, not actions or thoughts and intents.

So what is God doing by asking him?
Every time God asks a question it is an amazing thing!
 
Sep 29, 2019
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There's NO SUCH CRITTER, as a "CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR", in God's Army!

If the "vengeance of God" doesn't work through you?
Then, "His vengeance" is turned TOWARDS you!
Like it or not? Want it to be like that, or not?
Gee, that's just too bad, cupcake!
How does the vengeance of God work through you NayborBear?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,322
29,573
113
no bite @Whispered ?

i'll help: in what setting do people only ask questions they already know the answer to? what is taking place?
court.
God has come down and is holding court, to judge what has taken place. Adam & the Woman are co-defendants, giving their testimony - in which both confess and Adam - a type of Christ ((Romans 5)) - gives a defense for his wife. who is this taking place before? who is watching? who else is there, now? angels & animals. what position does this make Satan in the setting? prosecutor. does the prosecutor ask questions he doesn't know the answers to?
does Satan know the answer to the question he asks the Woman?
School also ;) For we are all learning, hopefully... and I do not see Adam giving a defense for Eve. He blames her, and God, for his own transgression :oops:
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
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School also ;) For we are all learning, hopefully... and I do not see Adam giving a defense for Eve. He blames her, and God, for his own transgression :oops:
If Adam was trying to get out of responsibility by shifting blame to his wife and ultimately arguing that it was God's own fault in the first place, why does God accept his answer? Why does God not curse Adam or Eve, if they are lying to Him and refusing to confess their own blame?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,322
29,573
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If Adam was trying to get out of responsibility by shifting blame to his wife and ultimately arguing that it was God's own fault in the first place, why does God accept his answer? Why does God not curse Adam or Eve, if they are lying to Him and refusing to confess their own blame?
Let us back up a bit here: Where is Adam's defense of Eve?
 

Bingo

Well-known member
Feb 9, 2019
9,225
4,756
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( quote from above: 'writers of these scriptures were writing to justify their wars of conquest and atrocities. They were speaking from their own cultural context and in a time very different from ours. Their experience of God was very mixed and imperfect. )
"A time entirely different from the time now, is so ignored in today's world. And, is it no wonder
of the diversity in the 'Christian' world of today."
~Ponder this carefully~
enact - Copy - Copy (12) - Copy - Copy - Copy - Copy - Copy - Copy - Copy - Copy - Copy - Copy...jpg
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Doesn't sound that vengeful :). How will we know the difference between your own posts and the ones that God writes through you to be vengeful?
Wow! You must of taken one of them Evelyn Wood Speed Readin' courses. No? :p
I'm impressed!
btw....Who is "we?"
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
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School also ;) For we are all learning, hopefully... and I do not see Adam giving a defense for Eve. He blames her, and God, for his own transgression :oops:
Adam is the federal head of man. he is in a very real sense 'responsible' for the woman because she was made from him, not from the dust as he was.

he says the woman He gave to him gave it to her and he ate. If you presume that Adam is like us, a fool, unwilling to admit culpability or weakness, then you can read this as though he is shifting blame and throwing her under the bus in a last ditch effort to excuse himself. That he's not admitting his own role as head of the woman and he's calling God evil, ultimately, saying God is responsible for the Woman, not him, so if she sinned and deceived him into sinning too, it's all on you, God.

However
If you see Adam as taking responsibility for his own actions, sticking to his responsibility as federal head, and as wise - understanding fully the consequences of what she did and what he did, as trusting God, as readily confessing his sin, then what he answered Gid with is not denying or trying to avoid guilt, but admitting it and explaining why he did it.
he says, you gave her to me God. he is saying that she is in his care. he says, she gave me the fruit - God knows that they have eaten, and Adam knows that God knows. he is explaining that he took the fruit because he decided to join her in death, because she is in his care. This then isn't a plea for God to blame her instead of him, but to blame him, because as head of the woman he is responsible, and it is a confession that he did also eat, that he ate willingly, knowing what he was doing, not deceived but making the choice to join her rather than leave her to die alone.
Adam's sin is truly greater than Eves, and the Bible bears this out, saying sin entered the world through one man, even tho Woman sinned first.
Adam had a choice when she came to him - to eat or not to eat. To leave her to die alone or to join her - and he chose to join her. Why? I believe, because he loved her, and I believe, because she asked him "help me!" I believe Adam essentially is sacrificing himself for her sake, believing that God will show them mercy if they confess. Adam in fact had two choices: to eat or not of the tree that brings death, and also to eat or not from the tree of life afterwards. They do not eat of the tree of life, and God casts them out of the garden and seals up the way so that they cannot - protecting them from doing so. This is God's mercy, and the fact that Adam didn't go eat from it in an attempt to deal with their sin himself shows that he looked to God to solve the situation. Also he didn't run, but answered God when He called.

If Adam ate because he was giving himself for her sake, and declared how the woman had been given to him to keep and watch over, so he also ate when she gave him the fruit, then what Adam is expressing is love for her, sacrificial, responsible love. he is a type of Christ, coming to us in the likeness of sinful flesh, giving Himself for our sake, keeping us from eternal death ((what would be the outcome of eating the tree of life while in a state of sin and death?)) and bringing us before the Father to be reconciled through faith, confession and repentance.
Of course Adam is not without sin - not saying he is. he isn't Christ, but a picture foreshadowing Him.

I hope this is enough to give you a sense - I know it is completely the opposite of what 95% of preaching says. They all say, Adam didn't confess, Adam blamed God, Adam was a moron thinking God would accept that. Yet God did. He cursed the serpent and the ground 'for Adam's sake' and did not curse Adam or Eve. The scripture IMO bears out and supports the view I am giving you, and does not bear out the popular teaching that I'm sure you have heard. But you have to think seriously about what is going on here, and ask yourself questions about why all these things here take place and what makes them all make sense.

I can write more in about 2 hrs have to travel right now. Sorry for any typos am on a phone and I like small phones ;)
 
Sep 29, 2019
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Wow! You must of taken one of them Evelyn Wood Speed Readin' courses. No? :p
I'm impressed!
btw....Who is "we?"
We, as in all who read here. Maybe I should have said "How will I know".....I want to be prepared, just in case I,m the object of any vengeance...I got a nice weekend coming up and I don't want it ruined! Mind you Angela might give you a run for your money....I,m still smarting from her channelling of God's vengeance a few days agoo_O.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Adam is the federal head of man. he is in a very real sense 'responsible' for the woman because she was made from him, not from the dust as he was.
Adam "being responsible" for Eve, doesn't seem to hold up in light of:
Genesis 3
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Which seems to indicate, that "before?" They were "mutual help meets" for each other.

As the written record bears out? This didn't occur til "after" their eyes were opened, and became "cognizant" of their "nakedness." So, covered those parts of themselves that they believed was the cause of their "eyes to be opened" with fig leaves.

The "blame game" didn't start, until Lord God asked what the cause of this "epiphany" was.

At least they were honest, and didn't lie. Unlike Ananias & Sapphira did. And probably would have suffered the same fate. (but, I digress)

I understand what ya did. You did a "transitive" "hokey-pokey", with the phrases, and "turned yerself around." :p
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
We, as in all who read here. Maybe I should have said "How will I know".....I want to be prepared, just in case I,m the object of any vengeance...I got a nice weekend coming up and I don't want it ruined! Mind you Angela might give you a run for your money....I,m still smarting from her channelling of God's vengeance a few days agoo_O.
Oh! I see who the "we" is now.
You "jumped in", coming to "defend" PS.

I've been known to do similar things myself.
Easy to do here in CC.
Some threads, not to mention posts, can become pretty long.