Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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He is talking about a particular group of people in that passage, he never called them believers or bretheryn

out pastor calls us all brothers and sisters it does not mean everyone sitting in the pews are saved
No offence, but neither your pastor or any pastor I have had was or is inspired.....not mouthing migo....I disagree....show me one place where lost people are identified as brothers or brethern in a church letter.....

a. They are called and identified as brethern

b. They are expected to produce better things that accompany salvation

c. They are encouraged to go on to maturity and not return to the milk of the word

They are believing Hebrews that were wanting to go back under an inferior system.
 
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Paul wrote to believers, yet we know there were also unbelievers In all his letters

all the letters have a message for believer and unbelievers like

i think the term hebrews show who it was written to Bro.
I fully agree with this.....yet we cannot allievate the message and who it is directed at.....
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Paul wrote to believers, yet we know there were also unbelievers In all his letters

all the letters have a message for believer and unbelievers like

i think the term hebrews show who it was written to Bro.
I agree....Hebrews called brethern, Hebrews expected to produce things that accompany salvation, Hebrews expected to go on to maturity and not return to the milk of the word Bro.....
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
I know...was not mouthy at all...is this what our society has come to....disagree without mounting = being impolite.....!
No offense to EG, I agree, it was actually a great conversation.... and so helpful to me.:)
Not many people see it sadly.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
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Walk trough the valley
Exactly why you will never be right......opposing truth tooth and nail will not help you make the grade pal!
We dont need to claim a right of our own as Christians, neither do i needvacceptance from you but to Love you as an enemy. Slavations belongs to our God and we can aproach His Trone of Grace daily, coming to a merciful Saviour for Grace to help in our time of need; knowing that "All thing work for good to them that Love the Lord that are called to His purpose."
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
That he needs to call on Jesus. This is how I met Jesus 42 years ago. I was saying the name of Jesus as a mantra for about an hour a day. Not actually expecting Him to actually answer, but for protection against opresion of evil. This is the only time He spoke in a loud voice, He said: Behold if you call upon the name of the Lord He will come. His word pearced my heart like a sword and I fell unconacious. I thought i died but I knew He did this and that I was in His care. I felt Loved and accepted, it was good to be there. At the time was living with a woman that I was not married with, it was not adressed. I woke up on the floor in the morning and my first thought was: something happened last night but what was it. As it sais "The natural man can not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are spiritually diacerned. About three weeks laiter in a quiet voice: Everywhere you look you'll see the cross. At that time I understood I had to make my choise in life, wether I was going to live for myself or for the Lord. Now the meaning of everywhere you look, is a constant choise to deny myself and daily bear the cross that ends my selfish existance (idolising women), to follow Him. A couple monts after the experience I met a christian who had been told by the Holy Spirit to go to a drop in center, wher he met me and helped me realise I could not try to please 2 masters. I still had sorcery and eastern religion perspective, seeing Jesus as my spiritual master. I was then involves in the pentecostal Church he was in and in a charismatic renewal where I received the Holy Spirit who touchced me with an intence power that stoped when I bcame scared. Ihear the Lord practically every day, more so recently in the past year. One important word that still gives me perspective on the Journey: Stay on the cross. Just before this word at the time had read about a womans encojnter with the Lord in a dream, He tild her: Stay on the Roc. Its possible that abiding in Him is diferent for men and woman and children. A child was tild that woman and children dont havr to fight in thebdinal battle (the battle is already won). I will include words he told me 6 monts ago over a period of 3 weeks, when I decided in prayer to quit my job, to have time alone with Him first. (Now back to work until I retire in 6 to 8 monts). He did tel me that i was not ready (to see Him), but to go. The learning experience to face my shallow prayer life.

Directions received in preparation for Journey:
"We will give ourselves to prayer."
Withhold nothing, take nothing, you have to be determined to succeed. Your prayer life must increase, content to participate in the mystery of God. Go, this is a time of prayer; it’s the only way you'll succeed. Keep yourself in the Love of God, don't give up: you’re not ready. Be still: know that I Am with you. "Wait on the Lord and He will strengthen your heart." Your prayer life has to extend in all areas of your life. What you do not realize is that the war is accomplished: it's not as simple as you getting the power, you have to Love the Truth. Give up your life, no more going back to idols.
Don't be afraid, above all surrender (give Him your fear). Don’t stay outside, don’t worry, Psalm 118. Be Faithful unto death. Seek Me more than your necessary food. Don’t fight against the Holy Ghost, give yourself to prayer. Give yourself to Him, you need to change, no longer desire earthly things, come and be reconciled. Make the most of your time, live in Prayer, don't want anything else. Don’t forget.

Please understand that there is no limit to our growing experience in Christ, this is what is controversial. Our salvation does not fit in a box of our u derstanding but is oart of the Mistery of . To overcome this present evil world and have part in the first Resurrection. "Many are called but few are chosen." These are refered as "Called, Chosen, and Faithful."
About 8 Monts after the first experience, as I was seeking the Lord for a Word for my life: Be wholehearted in My word and I will accord the a portion with the great (I was reading old English at the time, He also speaks in french when I read in French).
These are the servants of the Lord who become His friends.
About 2 mont laiter, while taking pride in hearing Him heard: Your going to fall that you may learn to continually repent. To keep this brief, 22 years laiter after marriage break, fell in drug adiction and chasing ungodly women. The Lord srill spoke to me encouraging words even then. One word of reproof while living for pleasure: You disqualify youself as a priest. I understand this mostly as an intercessor for now and neither am I profiscient. We are "Living letters," that none can argue wirh: desent mattee what anyone sais, we are what we are in His Name: I Am. Habing the Grace we need. That, no one can argue. I felt quite disqualified from being called, until the Lord ashured me it wasent the case. Before coming out of drug adiction, at a time we were encouraged to fast for direction in the Church. I was surprised by a Word: Do the work of an evangelist, the rest dis not surprize me: Fear not I am with you. Then: Pray for the Anoimting. This is ongoing and have notbreceived, except glimpses of the refreshing of revival. Everything will be easier and more chalenging when that happens. this will be for the final time of trouble that He told me of 36 years ago. Behold I am with you in a time of trouble such as neverv was and shall never be again. I'm glad my story is not simple and believable.
You did not answer the question. :(

It would take three lines tops to state the Gospel message... do you know it?
 
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Why I cannot accept that Hebrews was written to unbelievers...

a. The writer includes himself with the audience by using WE a plethora of times

b. They are called HOLY BRETHERN and partakers of the heavenly calling

c. They are made partakers of Christ

d. Called and identified as brethern a plethora of times

e. Word was preached unto US as well as them, but with THEM is was not mixed with faith and WE which have believed enter into rest

f. Jesus is identifed as their GREAT HIGH PRIEST

G. WHEN THEY should be teachers they needed the MILK yet again

H. Better things that accompany salvation was expected of them and they are called to go on to maturity

I. Called joint heirs with Christ

j. They had a work and labor of love in the name of Jesus directed and ministered unto the saints

k. Identified as having the SAME HOPE and anchor of the soul as the writer

l.. The many contradictions made between US and THEM or WE and them

M. They were instructed to have boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Christ

N. They had a profession of faith

O. They are told to consider one another and NOT FORSAKE ASSEMBLING TOGETHER

P. THEY were told to not cast away their confidence which had great reward

Q. Jesus is identified as the AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF THEIR FAITH and instructed to run their race with endurance

R. They are exhorted as CHILDREN

S. They are identified with CHASTENING <--God does not whip bastards

T. They are encouraged to continue in brotherly love

U. The Lord is identified as their helper and they are instructed to praise God and give thanks

V. They are identified as US under the banner of being sanctified forever in Christ

W. They are told they have a better and enduring substance in Heaven

And on and on and on....this is just a cursory read of the facts....IT IS CLEAR this book is written unto Hebrew believers that were suffering reproach and under severe pressure to go back to the inferior way under the law....
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
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Walk trough the valley
You did not answer the question. :(

It would take three lines tops to state the Gospel message... do you know it?
I will take time out from this place. God does not need my help, (to convince anyone of Him). Im the one who needs to come to Him for help continually. He has already acomplished Salvation, and I am satisfied in relationship with Him and I still need to learn of Him in humility to be taimed by Him as a friend. Thank God I dont need to live upn to peoples expextations to be in relationship with our Lord.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
Why I cannot accept that Hebrews was written to unbelievers...

a. The writer includes himself with the audience by using WE a plethora of times

b. They are called HOLY BRETHERN and partakers of the heavenly calling

c. They are made partakers of Christ

d. Called and identified as brethern a plethora of times

e. Word was preached unto US as well as them, but with THEM is was not mixed with faith and WE which have believed enter into rest

f. Jesus is identifed as their GREAT HIGH PRIEST

G. WHEN THEY should be teachers they needed the MILK yet again

H. Better things that accompany salvation was expected of them and they are called to go on to maturity

I. Called joint heirs with Christ

j. They had a work and labor of love in the name of Jesus directed and ministered unto the saints

k. Identified as having the SAME HOPE and anchor of the soul as the writer

l.. The many contradictions made between US and THEM or WE and them

M. They were instructed to have boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Christ

N. They had a profession of faith

O. They are told to consider one another and NOT FORSAKE ASSEMBLING TOGETHER

P. THEY were told to not cast away their confidence which had great reward

Q. Jesus is identified as the AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF THEIR FAITH and instructed to run their race with endurance

R. They are exhorted as CHILDREN

S. They are identified with CHASTENING <--God does not whip bastards

T. They are encouraged to continue in brotherly love

U. The Lord is identified as their helper and they are instructed to praise God and give thanks

V. They are identified as US under the banner of being sanctified forever in Christ

W. They are told they have a better and enduring substance in Heaven

And on and on and on....this is just a cursory read of the facts....IT IS CLEAR this book is written unto Hebrew believers that were suffering reproach and under severe pressure to go back to the inferior way under the law....
This is so awesome, clear and succinct, thank you!!

I knew there was a reason to keep you around on this thread :)....okay just kidding.
 

stillness

Senior Member
Jan 28, 2013
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Walk trough the valley
You did not answer the question. :(

It would take three lines tops to state the Gospel message... do you know it?
"Repent and be imersed in Jesus, (The Identity of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit) and you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Farewell
 
Dec 12, 2013
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This is so awesome, clear and succinct, thank you!!

I knew there was a reason to keep you around on this thread :)....okay just kidding.
We cannot alleviate the markers that identify who the book is addressed to and why it was written.....sure some lost will hear the message or be in in the group addressed, but over all it is directed at Hebrew believers that were being persecuted and pressure cooked to fold back in under the inferior way....
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
We cannot alleviate the markers that identify who the book is addressed to and why it was written.....sure some lost will hear the message or be in in the group addressed, but over all it is directed at Hebrew believers that were being persecuted and pressure cooked to fold back in under the inferior way....
download.jpg
 

TooFastTurtle

Active member
Apr 10, 2019
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Well I am sad you do not see it, because the book of Hebrews will really open up once one understands that author is addressing believers who were facing extreme persecution and they were willing to abandon and did abandon the sacrifice of Jesus for the old.
sacrifices.
What happened to them once they did that? Were they still saved despite abandoning the faith? Or were they never saved to begin with, which is the usual answer.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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www.christiancourier.com
Whatever

i guess it’s time for me to leave again, guess people can not have polite conversation

later 😕

Ephesians 6:11
Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.​



Don't do that, please do not leave. I hope you are still with us.
It becomes readily apparent, sadly so, that there are personalities that assault Christians. And I think it is for that very reason that you've posted here. You're leaving....again.
They want people to feel so attacked, so belittled, so disrespected, so mocked, so ridiculed, so tired of being called names, so sick of being accused of posting remarks about scripture that are lies because that Christian did no such thing as what is being claimed against them, so tired of pejoratives, of being laughed at, that they leave!

When in truth the accusers, the wicked minded, the liars, accusers of the brethren, the sisters, are the ones that should leave. Or be made to.
Instead, we have the option to ignore emissaries of the accuser. But to leave, when one is Holy Spirit of God filled, because we are beset on all sides by a few of those in the grip of the adversary is giving evil a right it does not deserve.

Ephesians 6:12
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.


There's an ignore list that can bring you peace. It is amazing how lovely it is to read people of Christ and who are of good hearts and sober minds, when discussing scripture. And in the course of that, you may notice in very short order, that the anger, rage, hate, vindictiveness, name calling, slander, defamation, lies that misrepresent the truth of your own posts, being no longer visible, are no longer a part of your reality. Find peace. Ignore the Devil and he shall flee from you. Remember, we're told even Satan can quote scripture and appear as an angel of light. The Devil is a liar.

Be blessed. Don't let the darkness make you flee a site you enjoy. Make the darkness flee from you; ignore list is a Godsend. [hugs you]
 

TooFastTurtle

Active member
Apr 10, 2019
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They were saved and stayed saved.
After abandoning the faith? There you have it. This is why I say all the warnings in OSAS are meaningless and this proves my point. No reason to warn of apostasy since it has no eternal consequences.

This is the real doctrine. But when confronted with verses demanding holiness and repentance you resort to "Those texts are descriptive" then back to it doesn't matter what you do once you're saved and when confronted back to "we never said that, saved people dont sin like in the past because descriptive texts"

But if we quote those verses we are teaching works salvation. I guess people have to add (descriptive) to the end of them?

Im waiting for the stand up comedy insults in 1...2......3
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
After abandoning the faith? There you have it. This is why I say all the warnings in OSAS are meaningless and this proves my point. No reason to warn of apostasy since it has no eternal consequences.

This is the real doctrine. But when confronted with verses demanding holiness and repentance you resort to "Those texts are descriptive" then back to it doesn't matter what you do once you're saved and when confronted back to "we never said that, saved people dont sin like in the past because descriptive texts"

But if we quote those verses we are teaching works salvation. I guess people have to add (descriptive) to the end of them?
So now you are adding to what I have written.

Seriously, go and read careful what @dcontroversal wrote.....maybe you will see the line that states this...

S. They are identified with CHASTENING <--God does not whip bastards.


And do not attribute words to me that I have never stated about descriptive passages because I do not use that language.