Not By Works

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J

Judges1318

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#114,741
Nov 16, 2019
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#114,741
EleventhHour said:
That is a new spin.... Does not work at all since Paul never states they were unjustified by going back to the law.
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Galatians 4:10 NIV
"You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!"

Galatians 3:3 NIV
"After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?"

Galatians 3:11 NIV
"no one who relies on the law is justified before God"

Galatians 5:4 NIV
"You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Dec 12, 2013
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Judges1318 said:
According to this I don't think it can be a revolving door.

Hebrews 6:4-6 NIV
"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."
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Yep and within the scope of the bible and the full context this is saying it is impossible to fall away to the point of being renewed....but hey, carry on believing salvation can be lost or forfeited by men.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#114,745
#114,745
Judges1318 said:
Galatians 4:10 NIV
"You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!"

Galatians 3:3 NIV
"After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?"

Galatians 3:11 NIV
"no one who relies on the law is justified before God"

Galatians 5:4 NIV
"You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."
Click to expand...

No context shaking my head!!!

Not one of these verses supports your false idea that God unjustified a person based on returning to the law.

Falling from grace is not being unjustified....it is falling away from the source (grace) of one's relationship with God, it is not God that has acted but the person.

We are justified through faith, the Galatians are "sons of God" (3:26) and no longer slaves to the law (4:5-7).

They are exhorted to "stand fast" in their liberty and not become entangled in the bondage of the law (5:1).

If they return to legalism, Christ will not profit them in sanctification (5:2), because keeping the external requirements of the law by fleshly efforts cannot bring anyone closer to God.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#114,746
#114,746
lightbearer said:
Because it is hard to kick against the pricks. Have a nice evening.
Click to expand...
Learn something will there is still time.....

The Gospel is Jesus only, by faith only, and if you have not trusted IN HIM ONLY as the full and complete sacrifice, never to be lost or forsaken, apart from your meaningless, futile, barren, eyes on oneself, works and/or law keeping then you have NOT trusted in Him for salvation.

Anyone who has come to Him thinking they have something to add to the endeavor has not trusted IN HIM and He does not accept those as He made it quite clear with those who stated "Lord, Lord"

If you do not see this you do not see the true Gospel.
 
Lightskin

Lightskin

Well-known member
#114,747
Aug 16, 2019
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#114,747
EleventhHour said:
Learn something will there is still time.....

The Gospel is Jesus only, by faith only, and if you have not trusted IN HIM ONLY as the full and complete sacrifice, never to be lost or forsaken, apart from your meaningless, futile, barren, eyes on oneself, works and/or law keeping then you have NOT trusted in Him for salvation.
Click to expand...
Perfection, my Lady. 😎
 
J

Judges1318

Banned
#114,749
Nov 16, 2019
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#114,749
EleventhHour said:
No context shaking my head!!!

Not one of these verses supports your false idea that God unjustified a person based on returning to the law.

Falling from grace is not being unjustified....it is falling away from the source (grace) of one's relationship with God, it is not God that has acted but the person.

We are justified through faith, the Galatians are "sons of God" (3:26) and no longer slaves to the law (4:5-7).

They are exhorted to "stand fast" in their liberty and not become entangled in the bondage of the law (5:1).

If they return to legalism, Christ will not profit them in sanctification (5:2), because keeping the external requirements of the law by fleshly efforts cannot bring anyone closer to God.
Click to expand...
The context is justification through and through. He's warning them not to become slaves of the law (the old covenant) because SLAVES DO NOT SHARE IN THE INHERITANCE. Slaves are not in line for the inheritance, only sons born by faith are.

Galatians 4:30
"the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”

That's how we know he isn't talking about them falling away from the growth of the believer in sanctification. The sanctification of the believer does not determine whether or not they possesses the inheritance (eternal life). Justification does.

If the discussion goes that way I'll share more about this matter of justification.
 
stillness

stillness

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Jan 28, 2013
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Walk trough the valley
#114,750
mailmandan said:
For those who teach we are saved by "these" works and just not "those" works, what do you say we call that, "selective works salvation?"
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That would be apropriate, though still misunderstood: to select to walk in "Faith that Works by Love," and not think we are better than others who dont, as its all Grace that influences us to Love the Truth. "Qeep yourselvs in the Love of God."
It may apear good to try to help others, but the Lord told me: I dont need your help. What is more obvious than nothing we could do to save ourselve: we cant help others walk in Love, other than to forgive them. It concerns them to come of themselves. This is part of fellowship in the sufferings of Christ. To live what we belive in singleness of heart, accepting we cant help others go on to perfection. A light afliction, perfecting us in Love with God. Otherwise distracted trying to help where we cant. As you know that we cant save ourselves, though it sais "Save yourselves from this untoward generation," meaning: not towards God; I have been there as well, and neither does the Lord abandon us there; but those who remain unrepented will not have part in the first Resurrection. There is a number to be fulfilled of those who suffer with Jesus to cease from sin and we know God's purpose will be fulfilled, and that we cant ad to it, other than "Obedience of Faith" in the will of God; living for His praise and not selfish ambittions. Summed up in my favorite verse,
"Rejoice continually, pray without ceacing, in everything give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you."
I have observed that no mather what people are thought in the church "Those with clean hands and a pure heart will not be deceived, "Changed from glory to Glory by the Spirit of the Lord."
We are not saved by understanding the Truth, but by Loving The Truth, accepting that we all come short of the Glory (Resurrection) of God and must go on: having sufiscient Grace to obtain Resurrection.
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

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Sep 8, 2018
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#114,751
mailmandan said:
For those who teach we are saved by "these" works and just not "those" works, what do you say we call that, "selective works salvation?"
Click to expand...
Yeah gotta love it! The consistent adventists do the same. "you arent saved by keeping the sabbath LOL by grace through faith AMEN brother but if you dont keep it after you're saved well.... you might lose your salvation take the mark of the beast and go to eternal destruction. :) "

Its the same thing here, yeah of course you're not saved by working this part of the law, its THAT part of the law you gotta work on to stay saved DUH.

Its not that you're saved by works its that you're STAYING saved by your own works of righteousness. <- This is another one that i've heard.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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EleventhHour said:
No context shaking my head!!!

Not one of these verses supports your false idea that God unjustified a person based on returning to the law.

Falling from grace is not being unjustified....it is falling away from the source (grace) of one's relationship with God, it is not God that has acted but the person.

We are justified through faith, the Galatians are "sons of God" (3:26) and no longer slaves to the law (4:5-7).

They are exhorted to "stand fast" in their liberty and not become entangled in the bondage of the law (5:1).

If they return to legalism, Christ will not profit them in sanctification (5:2), because keeping the external requirements of the law by fleshly efforts cannot bring anyone closer to God.
Click to expand...
Excellent exposition.......and right!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#114,753
Dec 12, 2013
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#114,753
EleventhHour said:
Learn something will there is still time.....

The Gospel is Jesus only, by faith only, and if you have not trusted IN HIM ONLY as the full and complete sacrifice, never to be lost or forsaken, apart from your meaningless, futile, barren, eyes on oneself, works and/or law keeping then you have NOT trusted in Him for salvation.

Anyone who has come to Him thinking they have something to add to the endeavor has not trusted IN HIM and He does not accept those as He made it quite clear with those who stated "Lord, Lord"

If you do not see this you do not see the true Gospel.
Click to expand...
Another winner......legalistic, law keeping salvation losers have not trusted Jesus for salvation.....the bible is clear and Nolightbar is one such legalist......

He that believes on the Son <--this is clear enough

Not by the works/deeds of the Law <--this is clear enough

Not by works lest any man should boast <---this is clear enough

Gifts and calling of God irrevocable <--this is clear enough

And I give them eternal life <--this is clear enough

etc....

The muddy water false gospel peddled by the workers for and salvation losing law keepers will never make the grade!
 
calibob

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
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May 29, 2018
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#114,754
dcontroversal said:
Another winner......legalistic, law keeping salvation losers have not trusted Jesus for salvation.....the bible is clear and Nolightbar is one such legalist......

He that believes on the Son <--this is clear enough

Not by the works/deeds of the Law <--this is clear enough

Not by works lest any man should boast <---this is clear enough

Gifts and calling of God irrevocable <--this is clear enough

And I give them eternal life <--this is clear enough

etc....

The muddy water false gospel peddled by the workers for and salvation losing law keepers will never make the grade!
Click to expand...
Unless they humble themselves before it's too late. There is still time to turn rather than to burn. Turn to grace though faith not works, that is.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
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Dec 12, 2013
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#114,756
calibob said:
Unless they humble themselves before it's too late. There is still time to turn rather than to burn. Turn to grace though faith not works, that is.
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100% agree, but let us be 100% clear......a hardened heart to the truth while swallowing a false gospel = two fold the child of hell...not only do they have to get over a false religion, but also being lost <-2 fold
 
calibob

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
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#114,759
There's no mistaking that Saul of Tarsus would have been one of them before his conversion. The Lord had a better idea and if people want to call it predestination, I don't care. He, against his will was called. He had set aside Lords special envoy and Evangelist to the Gentiles, as well as the Jews. Just because the word didn't exist yet in 1611 dosn't mean that the Holy Sprit. from which it came, wasn't working. God is smarter than us.

So in saying that, Christianity isn't a special club with door locked to keep the uninformed out. Some were chosen before hand to learn and carry the message to those who have the capacity to be honest, humble and willing enough to make the simple effort of asking for forgiveness, admitting that Jesus is not only God he's our owner and ruler. He is God not us and not the law either. That's part of what Jesus is Lord means!
 
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