When Jesus said, "Greater things shall ye do, what did he mean by that?" What is greater than the miracles The Apostles performed?
Greater Things Shall Ye Do
- Thread starter VineyardsOfEngedi
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That's a very good question VOE, and personally, I really don't know the answer outside of volume. I believe that as far as numbers go, the Apostles eventually may have performed more miracles, brought more people to the faith, spread it further (Gentiles), than Jesus did in his lifetime. For he replied to them in that same context, '...because I go to the Father' implying that simply the chronological fact of his absence (not a potency issue), is the factor why they will outperform him. That's my understanding anyhow?
But, just to point out what I believe to be a shortcoming in your question, I would easily say that saving souls is a greater act than merely performing miracles, which did not necessarily guarantee the salvation of those who witnessed them (eg: Pharisees & Sadducees). ...and Jesus did both, performed miracles (which all did not accept its testimony), and he saved countless souls (Lazarus, Martha, Mary, crucified robber, his mother and other siblings, Joseph of Arimithea, …). Thus, one could acceptably answer your question by stating 'saving souls', without actually answering your question (if I've understood it correctly).
Thanks!
Well I'm not sure that I believe cripples are being healed or that blind are getting their sight restored but I do believe that that power still exists, I'm just not sure that it is being exercised at this time, if that makes sense.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.
The truth is nobody can outdo Jesus when He was on earth in miracles, and also Jesus did miracles that was not common place for a disciple to do which is to testify that He is the Son of God, the Savior.
How many people do we know that have walked on water besides Peter for a short time, and fed thousands of people with a few fishes and a loaf of bread, or put mud in a persons eyes and they had eyeballs, or withered a fig tree, or calmed the roaring storm and wind, or knew of a fish that has a coin in it and a disciple got it, or put the coin there Himself, or was transfigured with Moses and Elijah, and such like that, and how many disciples did those type of miracles.
Jesus spent three and one half years of preaching the Gospel, healing, miracles, in great number, and the saints can do the same, but Jesus did miracles that are not common place for a saint to do and that is because it testified that He is the Son of God.
Which Jesus told Thomas that he believed because he saw, but blessed is he that has not seen but believes, because it is based on faith, and the disciples, and much Jews would see things that we would not see.
But the saints can do the common miracles that Jesus did that have to do with the welfare of people such as preaching the Gospel, and healing.
But how can a saint outdo Jesus in those common works.
So Jesus must have meant that the Church as a group will do the works that He did, and do greater works for they can reach out to more people to help them, and preach the Gospel and heal, and feed and clothe the poor and needy.
As an individual I do not see how anybody can outdo Jesus, but the Church as a bigger group can impact more people, and reach out farther than Jesus could do at the time He was on earth, and the only one as part of the Church so far being the chief cornerstone.
The disciples and Paul, and people that followed them did many miracles of healing, but you never read of them doing the miracles that Jesus did like seem to not be common place for a saint.
I wonder as a whole, if we'd ever be in unison concerning scripture.
There is more hypocrisy than years ago, and there is less people allowing the Spirit to lead them than years ago.
The power still exists but many do not believe in miracles so nothing is going to happen there.
And many people have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof so nothing is going to happen there.
And you have some Christian denominations that deny who Jesus really is so nothing is going to happen there.
Also we are in the end time, the latter times, the last days of the last days, for the Bible warns us of the new age movement and their false interpretation of the Bible that will happen in the latter times, and it is here now.
Which God has to end this sin business on earth one day so He has to allow the world to have their way for a certain time, and cause all people who do not love Him to follow the New Age Christ then He will put the world down.
So maybe many miracles is not happening because of that as if it is a snare unto the world to not have the witness of it which Jesus said a sinful and adulteress generation require a sign, and like at the time He was on earth no sign would be given it, and the last generation is the worse generation.
Which Proverbs 30:11-14 tells us of the last generation that will be worse than any other generation before it.
And since the new age movement is here, and God is allowing the world to have their way for a certain amount of time the devil can work in the world like he could not work in the past until the restraint is off him, and the devil is off his leash concerning the wicked which is referred to as the beast ascends out of the bottomless pit, and the devils will deceive all people that do not love God to follow the man of sin, which is the strong delusion that God will give everybody that loves not the truth.
So maybe many miracles will not happen at this time like they did in the past.
I believe the greatest miracles were done by the disciples and the early Church when hypocrisy was low, and people were allowing the Spirit to lead them more until they became more divided and more hypocrisy and wrong interpretations of the Bible, which today there is more of that than in the past.
Not right now, but I believe in the future among many for the world will soon begin a dividing point between the world and the truth until they rebel against the truth.
That means at the first all who claim Christ, and a personal God will be more banded together because of that and fellowship with each other, and Islam and Christianity will probably get along better because Islam too will be divided with the world one day, so they will have something in common there, which maybe some will come to the truth as the saints can point out that the Bible told us of this day.
They will be less hesitant to want the ways of the world and hypocrisy because the world will shun them.
But then the day will come that it will completely divide the world from the truth, and all hypocrites will end up following the New Age Christ.
But a lot of people have small differences among many but claim Christ, and a personal God, but some have major differences that have an improper foundation.
When there is Churches claiming the Bible and Christianity such as the new age movement, Christian Science, Scientology, and some others then we know something is very wrong going on and in the future it will be a whole new meaning to the Bible and Christianity of evolution, and people can still evolve to be greater and spiritual, and no personal God.
And because of that they will pave the way to the world will rebelling against God as they honor the God of forces, or the power of nature as their higher power, the evolutionary process.
That probably means you believe that whatever healing miracles that are taking place now, its no longer as powerful as what was being seen in the 4 Gospels and Acts under Jesus and the 12.
Thus, you will not follow that verse for today.
I think the emphasis is on the temporal being less valuable than the spiritual but the temporal are seen and easier to believe are better. Everyone we help to Christ is born spiritual from the dead. Their eyes that could not see, ears that could not hear and voices that could not testify all restored for Hir glory and service. Hands and feet that were spiritual crippled restored and doing the works He has prepared for us in advance. these are the good works He is doing in us.
I once was blind but now I see
Thank You, Jesus.
Yep, if you are willing to spiritualize it, that is another way to reconcile that passage.
When it is written "you shall do," it is understood it will be done through people not by them, by our Father.
I do not know if it is greater, but I do know of a person who was sleeping at his campsite in the Rockies yet someone who knew him, and dozens of other hikers saw and heard him going up a mountain. The one who knew him was in his tent and only heard him, but asked others if they had seen the owner of this voice speaking of God's greatness and the HOly Spirit. He asked if the person had yellow hair and a blue Book in his hand...they all, that saw him, replied, "Yes."
This peson was in two places 30 miles apart at the same time...
Think outside the box.. What things are we going to be doing in Eternity?
The greater works would include preaching the gospel of Christ’s death, burial and resurrection for sin. This was not preached as of yet. When the Lord ascended, He would later send the Comforter, the Holy Spirit to lead them to all truth.
Think inside the box, the context is while on earth, for Jesus says that he is going to the Father, and that he will send the Holy Spirit. These are not chronological facts that pertain to the afterlife. 'Going to the Father' means that he is not with us anymore, and 'sending the spirit and its manifestations' are gifts that are not necessary once in heaven (1 Cor 13:9).
Part of your screen name, and what you just said, make me chuckle.
The only church we have ever attended that both believed in healing, and routinely practiced it was called The Vineyard.
It was begun by a man, John Wimber, who grew up knowing nothing of God or church. Once, after he had picked up a Bible and had become a Christian, he was attending a particular church where he expected to see "something" happen. When nothing ever did, he asked one of the deacons when the stuff in the Bible happened. The deacon was confused and asked, "What stuff?". John Wimber replied, "You know, the miracles and the healings."
The deacon said, "Oh, we believe in all that..... we just don't practice any of it."