Why I disregard "organized" religions

Robo36 · Nov 30, 2019

Why I disregard “organized” religions.

I’ve attempted to read the Bible from cover to cover. I don’t believe I’m a stupid person. According to the few IQ test contrived by humans that I’ve taken in my 83 year lifetime, I usually score somewhat above average intelligence, whatever that’s worth? I have to say that If I understood 25% of it, that might be an overreach?

I read the Old Testament and ended up with more questions than answers. Most of the New Testament leaves me confused. I think I understand most of what Jesus taught. Having noticed the teachings of the several organized Christian denominations, I find often conflicted belief from one to the other. I’ve even seen animosity among them directed from one to the other. I see the “For Profit” TV Evangelicals, their lavish TV settings and churches and the life styles that have been revealed concerning their some of leadership. Often disheartening, to say the least!

So, I’ve determined that if I want to be a child of God and be saved to the “everlasting life,” my choices are to study hard and seek the teachings of the Bible from the more studied folk, or I can take the teachings of the Bible and Jesus in particular as I can determine the meanings, I can pray hard and often, confess my sins and hope I’ve found favor enough with the Lord to believe I’m saved to that everlasting life.” My only other choice is to live the sinful life without confession to God as I have the majority of my life, while feeling the calling of the Lord often also.

If “who so ever believeth in him shall have everlasting life” is all it really takes, why do I need the teachings of today’s humans who can’t even get agreement therewith among themselves? My only question at this point in my own church between my ears, is what are the “conditions” that determine “true” belief acceptable to my Lord? I’d love opinions about that from this forum.

Nehemiah6 · Nov 30, 2019

Robo36 said:

Hi Robo36 and Welcome,

God never intended salvation to be complicated. Everlasting life -- or eternal life -- is God's GIFT to the one who repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom 6:23). That is because salvation is by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption (His death, burial, and resurrection (Eph 2:8,9). And here is what Christ has said (and you make take this personally): Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. (Rev 3:10)

Robo36 said:

Romans chapter 10 spells out everything. Just read it and believe it.

DB7 · Nov 30, 2019

Agreed Robo36, by looking at the Churches today one would have to wonder where is the Love and Wisdom that are so fundamentally taught by each one them. ...my personal opinion, I don't know (superficially speaking that is)? That is, what causes so much confusion, abuse, hypocrisy and heresy from a group of people all claiming to share the same faith, teacher and God? ...But, for starters, if I would say something, which I believe to be the paramount point behind the factitious nature of the Bible, is that God intended his Word to be profound and discerned only by those with sincerity and meekness of heart. And thus, to be confusing, absurd and misguiding to those who are not (let him who has ears to hear).

Therefore Robo36, read your Bible first, several times, gain as much as you can on your own. Your own discernment and inherent disposition will extract a meaning, accordingly. Then, get other opinions from reliable sources, in order to get an idea of where you stand with the overall concensus on certain tenets and doctrines. And continue in that manner, keep reading the Bible for as long as it speaks to you, and constantly compare views, between yourself and others, and others between others. See if this enlightens you any further, one way or another.

What are useful resources; Commentaries, sermons, study groups, lessons, tutorials.
What are reliable sources; Preachers and pastors that, at least, from the external, are following God's Word as you understood it to mean (attire, demeanor, liturgy, practices, who they attract, who they associate with, etc..). Then, see if their doctrines appear sound, and again, inline with what you perceive the Word to be saying (we can't go any further than what our discernment allows, God does not want lemmings).

Some charlatans and heresies are obvious, comparing Joel Osteen to John MacArthur, is no contest as to who is preaching a more accurate Christian Theology. Overt difference between Benny Hinn and R.C. Sproul, Joyce Meyers and Allistair Begg, Creflo Dollar and Steve Lawson, etc, etc....(not that I support all the latter comparison's views entirely, but very good start to get the main fundaments) In other words, your heart will lead you in the direction that is according to your faith and wisdom.

Best of luck Robo36, and God Bless!

Robo36 · Nov 30, 2019

DB7 said:

Agreed Robo36, by looking at the Churches today one would have to wonder where is the Love and Wisdom that are so fundamentally taught by each one them. ...my personal opinion, I don't know (superficially speaking that is)? That is, what causes so much confusion, abuse, hypocrisy and heresy from a group of people all claiming to share the same faith, teacher and God? ...But, for starters, if I would say something, which I believe to be the paramount point behind the factitious nature of the Bible, is that God intended his Word to be profound and discerned only by those with sincerity and meekness of heart. And thus, to be confusing, absurd and misguiding to those who are not (let him who has ears to hear).

Therefore Robo36, read your Bible first, several times, gain as much as you can on your own. Your own discernment and inherent disposition will extract a meaning, accordingly. Then, get other opinions from reliable sources, in order to get an idea of where you stand with the overall concensus on certain tenets and doctrines. And continue in that manner, keep reading the Bible for as long as it speaks to you, and constantly compare views, between yourself and others, and others between others. See if this enlightens you any further, one way or another.

What are useful resources; Commentaries, sermons, study groups, lessons, tutorials.
What are reliable sources; Preachers and pastors that, at least, from the external, are following God's Word as you understood it to mean (attire, demeanor, liturgy, practices, who they attract, who they associate with, etc..). Then, see if their doctrines appear sound, and again, inline with what you perceive the Word to be saying (we can't go any further than what our discernment allows, God does not want lemmings).

Some charlatans and heresies are obvious, comparing Joel Osteen to John MacArthur, is no contest as to who is preaching a more accurate Christian Theology. Overt difference between Benny Hinn and R.C. Sproul, Joyce Meyers and Allistair Begg, Creflo Dollar and Steve Lawson, etc, etc....(not that I support all the latter comparison's views entirely, but very good start to get the main fundaments) In other words, your heart will lead you in the direction that is according to your faith and wisdom.

Best of luck Robo36, and God Bless!

I thank you for the post, but I haven't noticed your personal opinion therein, as to what ,if any are the Lord's requirements related to "true" belief," that he will accept? Surely all alleged believers have moments, periods of time when they doubt their own beliefs? How strong must a professed belief in Christ be to "make his cut?" Where's the "cut line?" I hope many here can make that determination and allow me their opinions.

OneOfHis · Nov 30, 2019

Robo36 said:

Actual belief is not a choice, it is an indwelling response to received information.

You can try to choose to believe fire is cold, but if you have felt the heat.... you will know better inwardly.

A saving faith isn't about meeting some quota, it is just what you place your faith in.

(Belief in, trust in, confidence in, loyalty/ fidelity to)

Those who believe in our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, will be born again.

Then you feel the "heat" and can't believe that fire is cold.

Flesh may tempt you to doubt afterwards like fleeting thoughts I suppose, but your now living spirit and your new teacher the Holy spirit will make it so you "KNOW" you are His and have eternal life.

4102. pistis ►

Strong's Concordance

pistis: faith, faithfulness

Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Definition: faith, faithfulness
Usage: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.
HELPS Word-studies
4102 pístis (from 3982/peithô, "persuade, be persuaded") – properly, persuasion (be persuaded, come to trust); faith.

bluto · Nov 30, 2019

Robo36 said:

From what I have been reading in your post I believe you should keep it simple. In other words, I would start out by reading the gospel of John which identifies and proves that Jesus Christ is God and believing in Him you will have life. This was the authorial intent the Apostle John was making. John 20:30-31, "Many other signs therefore Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; vs31, but these have been written that you may BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD, AND BELIEVING YOU MAY HAVE LIFE IN HIS NAME."

You should know that I have been a Christian just about 58 years now and I'm not far behind you in age. What I have learned in all those years can be summed up at 1 John 5:11,12, "And this is the witness/record, that God has given us eternal life in His Son, vs12, He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life." In other words, I take God at His word and move onto the process of "sanctification." This means you are set apart for God's purposes in the world. It is a life long continuous process and during this process you will have many "peaks and valleys" in your life. The moment one is saved, the process begins. Your goal is to get to know Jesus Christ. As an example, I have been married for 51 years now and I know my wife well and she knows me. In short, get to know Jesus, you will "NEVER" regret it my friend. If you have any questions I will be happy to address them.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Alby · Nov 30, 2019

I don't belong to a church (yet) for many of the reasons you listed but I do attend an Orthodox church for services and fellowship when I can. I also have a good relationship with the Priest there and we meet for coffee once a week which i really enjoy. I feel comfortable coming to him with questions about Faith, bible, etc. When I pray, it's usually in the Orthodox way, because it speaks to me and gives me some order in my prayer. It feels good to do. Most others churches have fallen to secular push so I tend to avoid them but some can serve for fellowship only when you are in need of that I suppose. It's a personal thing tho and I think every person should follow Gods promptings in this regard.

DB7 · Nov 30, 2019

Robo36 said:

Sorry Robo36, but that was my point, one cannot force you to believe their perception of this or that. This is what I thought that you were protesting to begin with?
I can easily tell you with the utmost confidence, atht correct salvific belief is to you first, recognize that you are a sinner before God, for simply put, if you don't love your neighbour as yourself, or God with all your heart, you stand condemned.
And once that you appreciate how daunting this task is, you must accept Christ Jesus as the one who made you acceptable before God, by his perfected life and death on the cross. And it goes without saying that this conviction must be understood and sincere (you should be able to defend your position both scripturally and logically, in a manner that brings glory to God).
Then Robo36, you will be saved, ...according to my understanding.

But again, a Universalist, for example, will not agree with me, and Unitarians and Trinitarians, for example, have different views on who Jesus is which may deny their salvation, respectively.
So thus, I gave you my commentary on the Gospel, it's your job through scripture, to prove me right, wrong, or deluded....
Good luck, thanks!

posthuman · Nov 30, 2019

He has shown you, O man, what is good;

and what does the LORD require of you,

but to do justly, to love mercy,

and to walk humbly with your God?

(Micah 6:8)

which of these things aren't the fruit of belief in the gospel of His salvation?
aren't they each, exactly that? faith?

reneweddaybyday · Nov 30, 2019

Seek Him with your whole heart and you will find Him:

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Turn your heart to the Lord Jesus Christ and He will bring you to the Father:

Matthew 11:

27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Confess Jesus Christ is Lord in your life and believe God has raised Him from the dead and you shall be saved:

Romans 10:

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

DesertWanderer · Nov 30, 2019

Robo36 said:

I want you to start reading in the New International Version (NIV). Ditch the King James Version. We stopped speaking that way over 250 years ago. Suffice it to say (for now) that the old testament was written to show the Israelite's desperate need for a savior. In turn, it shows our modern need for a Savior. Leave it at that, and turn now to the first four books of the New Testament. Pay particular attention to John, since he attempts to explain the deity of Christ.

If you're going to use a commentary to study, I highly recommend Dr. John Constable. You can find him on bible.org. They use an easy to understand New English Translation. It's free to use the web site.

One more bit of advice. Don't let younger people skate out of their duty to disciple you. They will try and use the age difference between you as an excuse not to help you. Don't let them off the hook. Chase them down if you have to!

From what I've read from you so far, you're not ready to give your life to Christ yet. But the Holy Spirit is chasing you. It's no use, friend. He's going to win. I couldn't get away from Him either. I'm glad I finally stopped running, and submitted my life to the King of Kings.

Incidentally, I have turned from institutional churches, also. But that is no excuse not to fully repent and give your life to Christ. You're at a critical juncture, here. Time is running out for you. None of us lives forever. Listen to the Spirit of God and act quickly.

May God bless you, sir. Remember, God loves you very much. So do we here on this forum. Stay with us, and keep us posted.

DesertWanderer · Nov 30, 2019

Alby said:

Yes you do belong to the church, brother. Because you are the church. Remember what Jesus said to the pharisees in John chapter 2? They were challenging him to perform some miracle to prove he was the Messiah. He told them to tear down the temple and he would rebuild it in three days. And that's exactly what he did. He also told Peter that on this rock, he would build his church. I believe he was talking about himself. He is the cornerstone of the temple. Because we have given every part of our life to Him, he lives inside of us. We are the temple of God. God doesn't have any use for any big buildings with huge stages, overhead lighting and massive sound systems. He has us, not to sit in some building, listening to one man talk for an hour a week, but to go into the world and serve others as we preach the gospel. Good news indeed.

DB7 · Dec 1, 2019

DesertWanderer said:

I want you to start reading in the New International Version (NIV). Ditch the King James Version. We stopped speaking that way over 250 years ago. Suffice it to say (for now) that the old testament was written to show the Israelite's desperate need for a savior. In turn, it shows our modern need for a Savior. Leave it at that, and turn now to the first four books of the New Testament. Pay particular attention to John, since he attempts to explain the deity of Christ.

If you're going to use a commentary to study, I highly recommend Dr. John Constable. You can find him on bible.org. They use an easy to understand New English Translation. It's free to use the web site.

One more bit of advice. Don't let younger people skate out of their duty to disciple you. They will try and use the age difference between you as an excuse not to help you. Don't let them off the hook. Chase them down if you have to!

From what I've read from you so far, you're not ready to give your life to Christ yet. But the Holy Spirit is chasing you. It's no use, friend. He's going to win. I couldn't get away from Him either. I'm glad I finally stopped running, and submitted my life to the King of Kings.

Incidentally, I have turned from institutional churches, also. But that is no excuse not to fully repent and give your life to Christ. You're at a critical juncture, here. Time is running out for you. None of us lives forever. Listen to the Spirit of God and act quickly.

May God bless you, sir. Remember, God loves you very much. So do we here on this forum. Stay with us, and keep us posted.

Good words of advice, DesertWanderer, you stressed the imminency of the need to repent before it's too late. ...plus the lack of emphasis on using the KJV, it's good, but others are better!

Jackson123 · Dec 1, 2019

I meet more and more people disappoint with the church, because some mega church is not show love anymore, they do a church business for lucury life style

Jesus sacrifice His lucury life style from His palace to suffer persecution to show His love, the church is His body expected to continue His mission to love to the point to be willing to suffer on the cross for other instead of utilizing other for the sake of luxury life style.

And they not aware how far are them from the original teaching of the gospel.

Gospel direct us to west, little by little this driver turned the direction and because they do it little by little, the passenger not aware, when they wake up the bus was going eastward.

Going away from Jesus

From the love of Jesus, love that willing to suffer on the cross for us.

Nehemiah6 · Dec 1, 2019

DesertWanderer said:

This statement is simply pathetic. Obviously you have no clue about the excellencies of the King James Bible, nor the errors and omissions of the NIV. So you have given some very poor advice, and I trust it will be ignored

ForestGreenCook · Dec 1, 2019

Robo36 said:

Most of my life of 85 years have been in confusion of the meaning of the scriptures, as there were (seemingly) too many contradicting scriptures, such as in John 3:16 were it says "God so loved the world" and in 1 John 2:15 where it says "love not the world, neither the things that are in the world". Why would God tell us to not love the world that he said "he so loves"? I eventually was revealed the answer after a very long period of time. When I was 50 years old I "thought myself to be smart enough" to figure it out if I bought me a Strong's Cordance so I could look up the Greek interpretations of words in the scriptures and if I studied hard enough that I could understand it. I went to different churches and took notes, went home and tried to reveal the meaning. I was just stubborn enough to continue striving to understand for 12 years until I said "I am not smart enough to understand the scriptures". After a very short time I was visiting my brother-in-law and discussing the scriptures when the Holy Spirit within me began to reveal some truths to me which eliminated my "so called" contradicting scriptures. The "worlds" that I was confused about is two different worlds. The John 3:16 world is the world of "believers" and the 1 John 2:15 is the world of evil and destruction. John 14:30 - Hereafter I will not talk much with you, for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. The Holy Spirit within me did not reveal any truths to me as long as I had the mindset that "I was smart enough to figure it out", else I would have taken credit for myself and not given credit to God. Matt 16:24 - Then said Jesus unto his disciples, if any man will follow me, let him "deny himself" (his own understanding) and take up his cross, and follow me. Proverbs 3:5 - Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Robo36 · Dec 1, 2019

DesertWanderer said:

I want you to start reading in the New International Version (NIV). Ditch the King James Version. We stopped speaking that way over 250 years ago. Suffice it to say (for now) that the old testament was written to show the Israelite's desperate need for a savior. In turn, it shows our modern need for a Savior. Leave it at that, and turn now to the first four books of the New Testament. Pay particular attention to John, since he attempts to explain the deity of Christ.

If you're going to use a commentary to study, I highly recommend Dr. John Constable. You can find him on bible.org. They use an easy to understand New English Translation. It's free to use the web site.

One more bit of advice. Don't let younger people skate out of their duty to disciple you. They will try and use the age difference between you as an excuse not to help you. Don't let them off the hook. Chase them down if you have to!

From what I've read from you so far, you're not ready to give your life to Christ yet. But the Holy Spirit is chasing you. It's no use, friend. He's going to win. I couldn't get away from Him either. I'm glad I finally stopped running, and submitted my life to the King of Kings.

Incidentally, I have turned from institutional churches, also. But that is no excuse not to fully repent and give your life to Christ. You're at a critical juncture, here. Time is running out for you. None of us lives forever. Listen to the Spirit of God and act quickly.

May God bless you, sir. Remember, God loves you very much. So do we here on this forum. Stay with us, and keep us posted.

But I have confessed all of my sins, all 83 years of them in prayer. I beg Christ's forgiveness. I praise him every day for the millions of blessings he's granted to me. His love in particular, his saving grace, his magnificent and heroic gift for me and all humanity on the cross and his blessing of giving me 60 years with my loving wife who I lost just a few weeks ago. I pray for my reunion with her, I question what more I need to do.

Robo36 · Dec 1, 2019

I thank all who have contributed to this thread. God bless!

ForestGreenCook · Dec 1, 2019

Robo36 said:

Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. It is evidence that if you believe in and worship God you have already been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Eph 2:4=5 - But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved). The natural man, before he is regenerated, will not receive the things of the Spirit, because they are foolishness to him, 1 Cor 2:14. Before a person can repent of breaking a spiritual law, believe in a spiritual God, pray to a spiritual God, he has to have already been born again.

reneweddaybyday · Dec 1, 2019

Robo36 said:

This verse came to mind ...

Hebrews 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Wait on Him ... He will fulfill all His promises to us. We just wait. And while we're waiting, we rest in Him as we continue on in faith ...

Why I disregard "organized" religions

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