WHEN IS THE RAPTURE IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE GT?

[DeighAnn]

What does TRUE DOCTRINE look like IN THE WORD???

Isaiah 28:5 In that day shall the LORD of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,
Isaiah 28:6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.
Isaiah 28:7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
Isaiah 28:8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.


Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little

Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isaiah 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.



Zechariah 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
Zechariah 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
Zechariah 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Zechariah 12:4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
Zechariah 12:5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
Zechariah 12:6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
Zechariah 12:7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
Zechariah 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Zechariah 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zechariah 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
Zechariah 12:12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
Zechariah 12:13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
Zechariah 12:14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

​

Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
Zechariah 13:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.
Zechariah 13:3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
Zechariah 13:4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
Zechariah 13:5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.
Zechariah 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
Zechariah 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

​

 

[John146]

What does TRUE DOCTRINE look like IN THE WORD???

Isaiah 28:5 In that day shall the LORD of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,
Isaiah 28:6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.
Isaiah 28:7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
Isaiah 28:8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.


Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little

Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isaiah 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.



Zechariah 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
Zechariah 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
Zechariah 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Zechariah 12:4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
Zechariah 12:5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
Zechariah 12:6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
Zechariah 12:7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
Zechariah 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Zechariah 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zechariah 12:11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
Zechariah 12:12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
Zechariah 12:13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
Zechariah 12:14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

​

Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
Zechariah 13:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.
Zechariah 13:3 And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
Zechariah 13:4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:
Zechariah 13:5 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth.
Zechariah 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
Zechariah 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

​

The burden of the Lord for Israel.

All prophecy concerning Israel. The Church is nowhere to be found.

 

[DeighAnn]

1 Timothy 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1 Timothy 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1 Timothy 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession
1 Timothy 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ

784 aspilos
spotless, unstained, undefiled, PURE.

Most certainly "creating a doctrine" that was not taught by Christ and that Paul absolutely, clearly, and multiple times spoke against, does not leave the Word without spot.

And once again, Jesus in closing the book before reading "and the day of vengeance", or

Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Isaiah 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

or
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

There is no continuous doctrine, there are NO DETAILS given of before, during or after, no teaching of it by ANYONE in the bible, no writing of ANY PRE TRIB EVENT other than that written of what happens preceding Satan coming first. There is nothing written of the times it is supposed to happen, what will happen on the earth once it would, what happens to the "Church" once it leaves, or arrives in heaven after. That day, the coming, the return. At the 7th, the last, any mention of the "another" time WITH the church now?,

Has anyone stopped to think how a 'pre' effects the glorious coming of our Lord and Saviour for the Lords Day? How it steals from it by rendering it to "another" coming of the Lord? to another returning? to another day? 2 resurrections of the dead, 2 changing into spiritual bodies,

 

[John146]

1 Timothy 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1 Timothy 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1 Timothy 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession
1 Timothy 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ

784 aspilos
spotless, unstained, undefiled, PURE.

Most certainly "creating a doctrine" that was not taught by Christ and that Paul absolutely, clearly, and multiple times spoke against, does not leave the Word without spot.

And once again, Jesus in closing the book before reading "and the day of vengeance", or

Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Isaiah 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

or
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

There is no continuous doctrine, there are NO DETAILS given of before, during or after, no teaching of it by ANYONE in the bible, no writing of ANY PRE TRIB EVENT other than that written of what happens preceding Satan coming first. There is nothing written of the times it is supposed to happen, what will happen on the earth once it would, what happens to the "Church" once it leaves, or arrives in heaven after. That day, the coming, the return. At the 7th, the last, any mention of the "another" time WITH the church now?,

Has anyone stopped to think how a 'pre' effects the glorious coming of our Lord and Saviour for the Lords Day? How it steals from it by rendering it to "another" coming of the Lord? to another returning? to another day? 2 resurrections of the dead, 2 changing into spiritual bodies,

You’re making Israel the Church again.

 

[Blade]

New here. Things I ponder about. Matt 24 where Jewish people asked about the end. And to them He spoke what would happen. I jump to Rev and like the rest I can't find the Church after Chapter 4. Jumping back to Thes where from what I understand and could be wrong they wondered about Christ already came and they missed Him. And Paul or the holy Spirit told them what will happen. And a word he uses "WE". We that remain. Its written "we" in 26 different versions. And Rapture "caught up" was written about in 300-400ad and then before that. I did some searching years ago. All that meant was they did talk and teach and believed it. That does not mean PRE trip is right

Where I can get stuck is we know that Christ gave us all authority over the devil. Thats fallen angels, demons. its CHRIST in us not us. But we have this authority. And I read on in Thes where "something" is restraining the lawless one. So I naturally wonder.. who has this power? One the Holy Spirit.. thats in the world AND in each of us. I read where when He/it is taken out of they way then and only then does the lawless one come out. I also read where this lawless is given power of the saints. "It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. "

So whats the problem? Greater is He that is in me then He thats in the world. God would have to give Satan power of Jesus in me. Were not talking about MAN. So I always wonder about this. As we see right now in the world. Sin is everywhere always has been. But what WAS before Christ came. Is not now. Satan can not come out in the open and do any lying wonders. We all ALL authority over him. Now take US out of the way.. whats holding him back now? Who know has ALL power over him? And Jesus said to the 12 I am going back to make you a home and I will came back and get you so WHERE I am you will be. When did this happen? Did He lie? Or does all He know is after He rose nothing had to happen for Him to come get us but the Father saying GO?

Well they asked Him, are you going to rule now? He said of those times and seasons only the Father knows. And I can see pre post views. But since I only live in this moment. I look for Him now. Every moment I am ready. Always thinking about Him. How I live speak so for so on. We look for Him.. we believe in HIM.. praise GOD thats what matters.

 

[DeighAnn]

You’re making Israel the Church again.

Yes, and you are trying to separate them, like that could give any truth to that theory, the event that CHRIST HIMSELF NEVER SPOKE OF. That doesn't bother you at all? Just that one fact alone....has got to be strike one.

CHRIST came for the scattered sheep. DO YOU BELIEVE HE FAILED?
HE SAID HE LOST NOT ONE. CHRIST. CHRIST MAN. CHRISTIAN. Do you think He lied??

If you can allow yourself believe that Christ came and started the church for a specific people and now that people are not a part of it, the CHURCH to which the gentiles are GRAFTED into, there is nothing I can say TO OPEN YOUR EYES, that will only come from God.

That theory STEALS FROM THE GLORY OF DAY OF THE LORD.
JESUS NEVER EVEN GIVES A HINT OF IT, LET ALONE TEACH IT.
THE CHURCHES TOLD TO OVER COME.
ENDURE TO THE END.
WE ARE TO BE PROVED.
CHURCH TOLD THEY WILL HAVE A TEN DAY TRIAL.
JESUS WILL RETURN A SECOND TIME.
PAUL STRAIGHT UP SAID 3 TIMES NO LESS, JESUS DOES NOT RETURN UNTIL AFTER THE SON OF PERDITION REVEALED.
AFTER JESUS SAID "THIS DAY THIS PROPHECY FULFILLED", AND SAT DOWN, THE NEXT WORDS ARE "DAY OF VENGEANCE" (NOTHING, NOT A WORD ON RAPTURE, NOT A CORRECTION, NOT A SUBTLE HINT OF A "RETURN" BEFORE THEN).
NOT ONE TEACHING, BY ANYONE, .

THE FIRST THING that theory TRIES TO BUILD UPON IS "kept from wrath" which GOD TELLS US ONLY FALLS ON THE WICKED. DO YOU NOT TRUST THE WORD OF GOD? DO YOU NOT BELIEVE HIM? OH YE OF LITTLE FAITH.

YOU CAN TRY TO EXPLAIN IT THROUGH FEASTS, AND SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND ISRAEL, AND WHAT EVER ELSE BUT IT WILL ALWAYS COME DOWN TO THE SAME THING

THE BIBLE DOESN'T TEACH IT. AND IF IT WERE TRUTH
SOMEONE WOULD HAVE TAUGHT IT, AND THAT WOULD BE DOCTRINE, BUT NO ONE DID, SO IT IS A PERVERSION OF THE TRUTH.

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel
Galatians 1:7 Which is not another but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.


1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order Christ the firstfruits afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Psalm 10:1 Why standest thou afar off, O LORD? why hidest thou thyself in times of trouble?
Psalm 10:2 The wicked in his pride doth persecute the poor: let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined.
Psalm 10:3 For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth.
Psalm 10:4 The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.
Psalm 10:5 His ways are always grievous; thy judgments are far above out of his sight: as for all his enemies, he puffeth at them.
Psalm 10:6 He hath said in his heart, I shall not be moved for I shall never be in adversity...…….

Psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (What would render this void?? A quick trip to earth to gather a bride and a marriage and to hang out for 7 years is it???)
Psalm 110:2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
Psalm 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
Psalm 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
Psalm 110:5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
Psalm 110:6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.
Psalm 110:7 He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

 

[DeighAnn]

New here

Well they asked Him, are you going to rule now? He said of those times and seasons only the Father knows. And I can see pre post views. But since I only live in this moment. I look for Him now. Every moment I am ready. Always thinking about Him. How I live speak so for so on. We look for Him.. we believe in HIM.. praise GOD thats what matters.

Welcome to you.

Many nice points. But if we are to stand, overcome, endure, we must know how. If you have been taught you will not be here, when you find yourself here, you are not going to be prepared, and if the time had to be shortened so that the elect would not be deceived, you know it is going to be awful deceiving
.
No matter what, No one taught it. If you think you can, go find the teachings. And please, not a verse here and a verse there, but a line upon line precept upon precept, teaching from the bible, a teaching, just like everything else is. Jesus said he foretold us all things. Can't find it in Pauls writings, cause he definitely taught against it.

Gods children perish from lack of knowledge. That is not something that is to be taken lightly, as God wishes all would make it.

Enjoy the forum.

 

[yellowcanary]

You’re making Israel the Church again.

And you're making spiritual Israel (God's true Israel) a plot of land in the middle east made up of non-believers. There is one people of God ... whether Jew or Gentile. How so many dispensationalists fail to see and understand this is mind boggling.

 

[John146]

If you can allow yourself believe that Christ came and started the church for a specific people and now that people are not a part of it, the CHURCH to which the gentiles are GRAFTED into, there is nothing I can say TO OPEN YOUR EYES, that will only come from God.

Only a few thousand Jews believed. That’s why the kingdom was postponed and He would use the Apostle Paul to spread the gospel to the Gentile world. The Church is made up of mostly Gentiles.

The covenant God made with His physical people Israel is about physical blessings and land, a kingdom here on earth. The promises given to the Church are spiritual blessings in the heavenly places.

 

[John146]

And you're making spiritual Israel (God's true Israel) a plot of land in the middle east made up of non-believers. There is one people of God ... whether Jew or Gentile. How so many dispensationalists fail to see and understand this is mind boggling.

Replacement theology at it’s best. Did God make a covenant to His physical people Israel that included physical blessings and a piece of land here on earth? Is He not going to fulfill this covenant?

 

[John146]

And you're making spiritual Israel (God's true Israel) a plot of land in the middle east made up of non-believers. There is one people of God ... whether Jew or Gentile. How so many dispensationalists fail to see and understand this is mind boggling.

Who were God’s people throughout the OT?

 

[Absolutely]

1 Timothy 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1 Timothy 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1 Timothy 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession
1 Timothy 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ

784 aspilos
spotless, unstained, undefiled, PURE.

Most certainly "creating a doctrine" that was not taught by Christ and that Paul absolutely, clearly, and multiple times spoke against, does not leave the Word without spot.

And once again, Jesus in closing the book before reading "and the day of vengeance", or

Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Isaiah 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

or
Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

There is no continuous doctrine, there are NO DETAILS given of before, during or after, no teaching of it by ANYONE in the bible, no writing of ANY PRE TRIB EVENT other than that written of what happens preceding Satan coming first. There is nothing written of the times it is supposed to happen, what will happen on the earth once it would, what happens to the "Church" once it leaves, or arrives in heaven after. That day, the coming, the return. At the 7th, the last, any mention of the "another" time WITH the church now?,

Has anyone stopped to think how a 'pre' effects the glorious coming of our Lord and Saviour for the Lords Day? How it steals from it by rendering it to "another" coming of the Lord? to another returning? to another day? 2 resurrections of the dead, 2 changing into spiritual bodies,

Yeah,
How rude of him to remove lot prior to burning those heathens.

Even the baby Jesus removed most likely offends you.

 

[Absolutely]

New here. Things I ponder about. Matt 24 where Jewish people asked about the end. And to them He spoke what would happen. I jump to Rev and like the rest I can't find the Church after Chapter 4. Jumping back to Thes where from what I understand and could be wrong they wondered about Christ already came and they missed Him. And Paul or the holy Spirit told them what will happen. And a word he uses "WE". We that remain. Its written "we" in 26 different versions. And Rapture "caught up" was written about in 300-400ad and then before that. I did some searching years ago. All that meant was they did talk and teach and believed it. That does not mean PRE trip is right

Where I can get stuck is we know that Christ gave us all authority over the devil. Thats fallen angels, demons. its CHRIST in us not us. But we have this authority. And I read on in Thes where "something" is restraining the lawless one. So I naturally wonder.. who has this power? One the Holy Spirit.. thats in the world AND in each of us. I read where when He/it is taken out of they way then and only then does the lawless one come out. I also read where this lawless is given power of the saints. "It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. "

So whats the problem? Greater is He that is in me then He thats in the world. God would have to give Satan power of Jesus in me. Were not talking about MAN. So I always wonder about this. As we see right now in the world. Sin is everywhere always has been. But what WAS before Christ came. Is not now. Satan can not come out in the open and do any lying wonders. We all ALL authority over him. Now take US out of the way.. whats holding him back now? Who know has ALL power over him? And Jesus said to the 12 I am going back to make you a home and I will came back and get you so WHERE I am you will be. When did this happen? Did He lie? Or does all He know is after He rose nothing had to happen for Him to come get us but the Father saying GO?

Well they asked Him, are you going to rule now? He said of those times and seasons only the Father knows. And I can see pre post views. But since I only live in this moment. I look for Him now. Every moment I am ready. Always thinking about Him. How I live speak so for so on. We look for Him.. we believe in HIM.. praise GOD thats what matters.

yes.
The power given to the ac is to kill the saints.
(The ones left behind after the rapture)

Those left behind are the 5 foolish virgins in mat 25.
The foolish martyred will complete the church age.
The gt is focused on the Jews.

 

[Absolutely]

Peter was speaking to the house of Israel.

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

In the NT there is no difference. All the 12 tribes of Israel are Israel.

The first church was jewish.

So the 12 tribes and the church had that common root

 

[DeighAnn]

Only a few thousand Jews believed. That’s why the kingdom was postponed and He would use the Apostle Paul to spread the gospel to the Gentile world. The Church is made up of mostly Gentiles.
The covenant God made with His physical people Israel is about physical blessings and land, a kingdom here on earth. The promises given to the Church are spiritual blessings in the heavenly places.

Where is it you think God is coming??? Heaven is to BE ON EARTH. JESUS IS COMING HERE. GOD IS COMING HERE. THEY ARE HEADED TO THE EARTH.

God made more than one covenant. Some conditional, some not. The Abrahamic Covenant was unconditional"
Genesis 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Which means it goes on through Isaac, and Jacob (Israel) forever. It is still in effect.

And you to believe the CHURCH OF CHRIST does not contain HIS people?

Genesis 28:14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

Do you understand what that means?? IN THY SEED SHALL ALL THE FAMILIES OF THE EARTH BE BLESSED.

Genesis 32:12 And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.

WHERE AND WHO DO YOU SUPPOSE THEY ARE????

1 Chronicles 5:1 Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but forasmuch as he defiled his father's bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright.

SO Ephraim and Manasseh received the blessing and the birthright.

As an everlasting covenant, THEY ARE STILL IN EFFECT TO THIS DAY.

Genesis 48:19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.


COVENANT WITH DAVID
2 Samuel 7:13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
2 Samuel 7:14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
2 Samuel 7:15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
2 Samuel 7:16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

1 Chronicles 29:23 Then Solomon sat on the throne of the LORD as king instead of David his father, and prospered; and all Israel obeyed him.

WHOS THRONE???

Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David
Luke 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

AND YET YOU BELIEVE THAT THE CHURCH, INTO WHICH THE GENTILES MUST BE GRAFTED, TODAY ARE THE MAIN BODY OF THE CHURCH????

AND THAT THOSE CHRIST CAME FOR, AND STARTED THE CHURCH FOR, WHICH THE GENTILES MUST BE GRAFTED INTO, ARE THE MAIN BODY OF THE CHURCH TODAY BECAUSE PAUL WENT TO PREACH TO THEM ALSO???? BECAUSE GOD HAD OPENED UP SALVATION TO WHOMSOEVER WOULD??? please, YOU MUST BE KIDDING ME.

WHAT ARE WE TOLD ABOUT ISRAEL???

SPREAD ABROAD TO THE WEST, EAST, NORTH AND SOUTH
TO HAVE A NEW HOME
TO LIVE IN ISLANDS AND COASTS OF THE EARTH
BECOME A COMPANY OF NATION
TO COLONIZE AND SPREAD ABROAD
TO COLONIZE THE DESOLATE PLACE OF THE EARTH
TO HAVE ALL THE LAND THEY NEEDED
TO BE THE FIRST AMONG THE NATIONS
TO CONTINUE AS A NATION FOREVER
TO HAVE A LAND OF MINERAL WEALTH
TO HAVE A LAND OF GREAT AGRICULTURAL WEALTH
TO BE ENVIED AND FEARED BY ALL NATIONS
TO POSSESS THE GATES OF HER ENEMIES
TO HAVE CONTROL OF THE SEAS
TO HAVE A NEW COVENANT
TO LOSE ALL TRACE OF HER LINEAGE Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
TO KEEP THE SABBATH FOREVER
TO BE CALLED THE SONS OF GOD - ACCEPT CHRISTIANITY
Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
Hosea 1:11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land for great shall be the day of Jezreel.


WITHOUT THE SCATTERED SHEEP OF ISRAEL, THERE IS NO CHURCH FOR THE GENTILES TO BE GRAFTED INTO.

Isaiah 44:1 Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen:
Isaiah 44:2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.
Isaiah 44:3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:
Isaiah 44:4 And they shall spring up as among the grass, as willows by the water courses.


Isaiah 44:5 One shall say, I am the LORD's; and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob and another shall subscribe with his hand unto the LORD, and surname himself by the name of Israel.


Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Isaiah 44:7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.

 

[DeighAnn]

THERE IS NO PRE TRIBULATION COMING OF CHRIST. HE HAS ALREADY COME AS THE LAMB OF GOD, HE IS RETURNING FOR THE DAY OF VENGEANCE.

Ezekiel 33:1 Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

Ezekiel 33:2 Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman

Ezekiel 33:3 If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people

Ezekiel 33:4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.

Ezekiel 33:5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.

Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.

Ezekiel 33:7 So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.

Ezekiel 33:8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity but his blood will I require at thine hand.

Ezekiel 33:9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

Ezekiel 33:10 Therefore, O thou son of man, speak unto the house of Israel Thus ye speak, saying, If our transgressions and our sins be upon us, and we pine away in them, how should we then live?

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Ezekiel 33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.

Ezekiel 33:13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

Ezekiel 33:14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die, if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right

Ezekiel 33:15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Ezekiel 33:16 None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.

Ezekiel 33:17 Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.

Ezekiel 33:18 When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.

Ezekiel 33:19 But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.

Ezekiel 33:20 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways. (NOT A CHURCH BUT EVERY ONE)

A RAPTURE PRE TRIB WOULD REQUIRE A JUDGEMENT PRE TRIB.


AND DEATH AND JUDGEMENT IS APPOINTED TO EVERY MAN,

EXCEPT THOSE WHO OVERCOME, ENDURE TO THE END AND "NOT TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST" WHICH HAPPENS AFTER SATAN IS REVEALED.

 

[John146]

Where is it you think God is coming??? Heaven is to BE ON EARTH. JESUS IS COMING HERE. GOD IS COMING HERE. THEY ARE HEADED TO THE EARTH.

Yes, the kingdom of heaven is an earthly kingdom with Jesus the King ruling on the throne of David in Jerusalem.

 

[DeighAnn]

If to be "kept" meant "raptured", wouldn't "all" that God has "kept" have been raptured?


Job 42:1 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
Job 42:4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
Job 42:8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.

Proverbs 2:11 Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee (keep 5341 natsar to watch, guard, keep)
Proverbs 2:12 To deliver thee from the way of the evil man, from the man that speaketh froward things;
Proverbs 2:13 Who leave the paths of uprightness, to walk in the ways of darkness

Proverbs 4:1 Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding.
Proverbs 4:2 For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.
Proverbs 4:3 For I was my father's son, tender and only beloved in the sight of my mother.
Proverbs 4:4 He taught me also, and said unto me, Let thine heart retain my words keep my commandments, and live.
Proverbs 4:5 Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.
Proverbs 4:6 Forsake her not, and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee. (keep 5341 natsar to watch, guard, keep)

Psalm 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psalm 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. (keep 8104 shamar to keep, watch, preserve)
Psalm 12:8 The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted.

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
2 Corinthians 4:8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
2 Corinthians 4:9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed
2 Corinthians 4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
2 Corinthians 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
(always for we the living to death are being delivered on account of Jesus, so that also the life of Jesus may be manifested in the mortal flesh of us)

2 Thessalonians 3:3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. (keep 5442 phulasso - to guard, watch)

Deuteronomy 31:6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

Isaiah 41:10 Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God I will strengthen thee yea, I will help thee yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.

Psalm 34:19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous but the LORD delivereth him out of them all.
Psalm 34:20 He keepeth all his bones not one of them is broken. (keep 8104 shamar to keep, watch, preserve)
Psalm 34:21 Evil shall slay the wicked and they that hate the righteous shall be desolate.
Psalm 34:22 The LORD redeemeth the soul of his servants and none of them that trust in him shall be desolate.

Psalm 57:1 Be merciful unto me, O God, be merciful unto me for my soul trusteth in thee: yea, in the shadow of thy wings will I make my refuge, until these calamities be overpast.
Psalm 57:2 I will cry unto God most high; unto God that performeth all things for me.
Psalm 57:3 He shall send from heaven, and save me from the reproach of him that would swallow me up. Selah. God shall send forth his mercy and his truth.
Psalm 57:4 My soul is among lions and I lie even among them that are set on fire, even the sons of men, whose teeth are spears and arrows, and their tongue a sharp sword.

Psalm 138:7 Though I walk in the midst of trouble, thou wilt revive me thou shalt stretch forth thine hand against the wrath of mine enemies, and thy right hand shall save me.
Psalm 138:8 The LORD will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O LORD, endureth for ever forsake not the works of thine own hands.


Psalm 23:1 The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

Psalm 23:2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

Psalm 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Psalm 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies thou anointest my head with oil my cup runneth over.

Psalm 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

 

[DeighAnn]

"day of the Lord" comes as a thief in the night for when THEY shall say "Peace and safety"


FOR NOT QUICKLY TO BE SHAKEN YOU IN MIND, NOT TO BE TROUBLED NEITHER BY SPIRIT, NOR BY WORD, NOR BY LETTER, AS IF BY US
(AS IN THE 1ST LETTER TO THE THESSALONIANS THAT STATED
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep, for the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first, then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day we are not of the night, nor of darkness)

AS THAT IS PRESENT THE DAY OF THE LORD

NO ONE YOU SHOULD DECEIVE IN NOT ONE WAY BECAUSE

IF NOT SHALL HAVE COME THE APOSTASY FIRST

AND SHALL HAVE BEEN REVEALED THE MAN OF LAWLESSNESS, THE SON OF DESTRUCTION THE [ONE] OPPOSING AND EXALTING HIMSELF ABOVE EVERY SO CALLED god OR OBJECT OF WORSHIP, SO AS FOR him IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD TO SIT DOWN, SETTING FORTH he himself THAT IS GOD

AND NOW THAT WHICH IS RESTRANING, YOU KNOW FOR TO BE REVEALED HIM IN HIS TIME

THE FOR MYSTERY ALREADY IS WORKING OF LAWLESSNESS ONLY THE RESTRAINING AT PRESENT UNTIL OUT OF MIDST he MIGHT BE

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,
Luke 4:2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.
Luke 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
Luke 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
Luke 4:7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
Luke 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Luke 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence
Luke 4:10 For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee
Luke 4:11 And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Luke 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
Luke 4:13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season.

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned and avoid them.
Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Romans 16:19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.
Romans 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

 

[Absolutely]

What is the rapture? Where is it explained in the Word? Thank you...God bless you.

Google it