Mystery Babylon

[PlainWord]

interesting points but also in revelation it does say 'every eye will see him' Jesus does not come back INVISIBLY. I dont think the heavenly city is a cube more of a pyramid and it would have life in it not death because the tree of life will be there again, so obviously there WILL be oxygen and water.

when John SAW this with his spiritual eyes he was realating to what he SAW not what he IMAGINED or God would have said this is just a symbol, I am TELLING you about, and John would have HEARD it but not SEEN it. in thr last two chapters of revelation John constantly refers to things he HEARD and SAW.

Every eye will see, correct!! Even those who pierced Him, right?? But where were those eyes who saw? Where were those knees that bowed? To answer that, answer this: Who were the ones who pierced Him? Literally it was the Roman solders but those really responsible, who God held accountable, where the Scribes and Pharisees. I can tell you from history that those responsible were already dead by 70 AD. Joseph ben Caiaphas, the high priest who presided over Christ's trial before the Sanhedrin died in 46 AD. Jesus says this to Caiaphas in Mat 26:

64 Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

For this to be possible, for Caiaphas to see Jesus sitting at the right hand of Power (God) and coming on the clouds of heaven, Caiaphas must have been seeing Him from Hades in the spiritual realm. Keep in mind, John was in the spirit the whole time he was being spoken to and witnessing. Thus John could see what was happening in the spiritual realm as well as the physical realm. We know from Heb 12:1 that the "cloud of witnesses" can see us. The "clouds of heaven" are the saints and angels of heaven, dressed in white robes. Remember when Christ ascended "a cloud received Him out of their sight?" This was no ordinary cloud.

I have no doubt that the new Jerusalem appears exactly as described but it is not a pyramid, it is a cube. And he measured the city with the reed: twelve thousand furlongs. Its length, breadth, and height are equal. The "tree of life" is an synonym for Jesus. Jesus, since returning to Heaven, has been sitting at the right hand of the Father except for when His presence returned in the first century to resurrect the dead believers and punish those who did not believe. The spiritual realm is not a static place. It is full of activity.

 

[Victor1999]

I think "mystery Babylon" is exactly what it's called, a mystery... We will probably know about it when it happens.

 

[garee]

Every eye will see, correct!! Even those who pierced Him, right?? But where were those eyes who saw? Where were those knees that bowed? To answer that, answer this: Who were the ones who pierced Him? Literally it was the Roman solders but those really responsible, who God held accountable, where the Scribes and Pharisees. I can tell you from history that those responsible were already dead by 70 AD. Joseph ben Caiaphas, the high priest who presided over Christ's trial before the Sanhedrin died in 46 AD. Jesus says this to Caiaphas in Mat 26:

The every knee is not the knee of a unbeliever. Every born again knee will bow. The eyes or vision that crucified him came from the father of lies the god of this world, called the lust of the eyes in 1 John . Foolish pride .

We who do bend a knee given a vision from scripture walk by faith the unseen eternal not after the flesh, that seen, the temporal.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

 

[garee]

Every eye will see, correct!! Even those who pierced Him, right?? But where were those eyes who saw? Where were those knees that bowed? To answer that, answer this: Who were the ones who pierced Him? Literally it was the Roman solders but those really responsible, who God held accountable, where the Scribes and Pharisees. I can tell you from history that those responsible were already dead by 70 AD. Joseph ben Caiaphas, the high priest who presided over Christ's trial before the Sanhedrin died in 46 AD. Jesus says this to Caiaphas in Mat 26:

I would offer. The every knee is not the knee of a unbeliever. Every born again knee will bow. The eyes or vision that crucified him came from the father of lies the god of this world, called the lust of the eyes in 1 John . . . .Foolish pride .

We who do bend a knee given a vision from scripture walk by faith the unseen eternal not after the flesh, that seen, the temporal

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

 

[Lanolin]

I just want to solve the mystery lol

 

[Lanolin]

My pastor would often say the answer to everything is JESUS.

Although the Bible does not read like a whodunnit, people do go round with names on their foreheads in the end. when the angels tells John about the mystery, he is supposed to get it. but to me it makes things more mysterious.
maybe back in the day everyone knew what city was 'the great city' as there might have been only one but in todays day in age there are so many cities in the world that seem to be 'great'. and its also a bit subjective like who can unanimously agree that one city over the other is great?

rome as a city doesnt even come on my radar in my part of the world.

 

[Ahwatukee]

my bible says furlongs and cubits. so probably not the same as your version. not sure how long a 'stadia' is. but cubits is not the same as feet. according to my Bible dictionary a cubit is 18 inches or the span of an arms length.

it is hard for me visualise what thus looks like but the more space conscious engineers amongst us could proably tell us. if it has 3 gates on each side, I imagine its not going to look like a rubiks cube though.

A stadia was one eighth of a Roman mile, a stadium, a race-course for public games

My point is that scripture states that the city will be foursquare, i.e. cubed shaped, with its width, height and depth being equal.

"The city lies foursquare, with its width the same as its length. And he measured the city with the rod, and all its dimensions were equal—12,000 stadia in length and width and height."

Based on the Roman Stadia, the city's height, depth and width, would be approx. 1,400 miles.

I haven't seen anything that would infer the city as being pyramid shaped.

if it has 3 gates on each side, I imagine its not going to look like a rubiks cube though.

Why not? Can't 3 gates go on each side of a cube?

I suppose we will know better when we see it

 

[Lanolin]

ca

A stadia was one eighth of a Roman mile, a stadium, a race-course for public games

My point is that scripture states that the city will be foursquare, i.e. cubed shaped, with its width, height and depth being equal.

"The city lies foursquare, with its width the same as its length. And he measured the city with the rod, and all its dimensions were equal—12,000 stadia in length and width and height."

Based on the Roman Stadia, the city's height, depth and width, would be approx. 1,400 miles.

I haven't seen anything that would infer the city as being pyramid shaped.



Why not? Can't 3 gates go on each side of a cube?

I suppose we will know better when we see it

can you convert this to decimal system please? I have no idea how big that is.

 

[garee]

A stadia was one eighth of a Roman mile, a stadium, a race-course for public games

My point is that scripture states that the city will be foursquare, i.e. cubed shaped, with its width, height and depth being equal.

"The city lies foursquare, with its width the same as its length. And he measured the city with the rod, and all its dimensions were equal—12,000 stadia in length and width and height."

Based on the Roman Stadia, the city's height, depth and width, would be approx. 1,400 miles.

I haven't seen anything that would infer the city as being pyramid shaped.



Why not? Can't 3 gates go on each side of a cube?

I suppose we will know better when we see it

The 12, 000 represents a unknow as the golden measure a metaphor used in parables like the one of His bride.

Just like the 12,000 from each tribe which represent gates to the city prepared as the bride of Christ old testament saints times 12,000 reckoned by pillars as apostles . 1444,000 virgins an unknow .God does not give literal numbers

The golden ruler shows a parable is in view, using the temporal things seen to give us the unseen golden vision. The signified language given in the opening verse of Revelation 1

 

[PlainWord]

The every knee is not the knee of a unbeliever. Every born again knee will bow. The eyes or vision that crucified him came from the father of lies the god of this world, called the lust of the eyes in 1 John . Foolish pride .

We who do bend a knee given a vision from scripture walk by faith the unseen eternal not after the flesh, that seen, the temporal.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Those who pierced Him were believers? Think again. It says, "EVERY" meaning both believer and unbeliever.

 

[PlainWord]

ca

can you convert this to decimal system please? I have no idea how big that is.

It would be about 2,253 KM based on AHW's math. The earth's atmosphere goes up to 640 KM. So, this thing would stick out into space about 1,600 KM. The weight of such an object would throw earth's rotation and likely orbit, out of place and destroy earth's atmosphere not to mention the heat of this object cutting through the atmosphere would melt all the gold of the city. Gold melts at 1948 degrees F and the heat of reentry for rockets is about 3,000 degrees F.

However, we know that this "city" does not literally come into our physical earth, where we live. In this city, there is no sun or moon. We have a sun and moon. Time for us is based on the earth's rotation around the sun. For Muslims it is based on the moon's rotation around the earth and for Jew's they combine both. Thus in the spiritual realm, with no sun or moon, there is no time. Thus, this city is in the spiritual realm and is our new Jerusalem above where we are citizens now.

 

[PlainWord]

I just want to solve the mystery lol

We already solved it. It was a mystery in John's day but not to us. We know it was first century Jerusalem. Remember John was "carried away in the Spirit into the wilderness" and "marveled with great amazement." Compare with Ezekiel 40 where Ezekiel was also taken in spirit and shown future Jerusalem, the one yet to be rebuilt. Thus both men were shown a future Jerusalem, Ezekiel's' to be built and John's to be destroyed. Thus Ezekiel was to see Israel's reconstruction after Babylon and John was to see it's destruction.

Perhaps a better analysis would be to do a compare and contrast. In Rev 12 John sees 'a Woman." This Woman is pure and virtuous and gives birth to Jesus. This Woman fled into the wilderness to escape Satan where she was kept safe after having been persecuted. Thus this Woman represents the Christian Church of Jerusalem, who according to Josephus and Eusebius, heard a divine voice to flee just before the Romans arrived. They fled over the mountains to Pella, a city in today's northern Jordan of the Decapolis. Therefore, this Woman was faithful, she was just, she was the Bride of Christ as she was the Church. She was kept safe from the destruction to come.

The Woman of Rev 17 was the opposite. She was the Harlot, the opposite of the Bride. She was filthy and abominable. "She was drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus." It was the unbelieving Jewish religious leaders who did most of the Christian persecuting throughout the Roman Empire, especially in Jerusalem. This amazed John because this Woman (harlot) was the exact opposite of the Church.

It all ties together. What does Jesus say in Mat 10:34? “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. He goes on to say in Luke 21: 16 "You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. 17 And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake." Jesus literally ripped Israel apart dividing her between believers and unbelievers of Him. Now compare Mat 10:34 to Rev 6:4 "Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword."

You have peace, earth, and sword found in both passages - perfect match. The Zealots rebelled in 66 AD, "taking peace from the "earth." The word, "earth" and "Israel" are often used synonymously, especially in prophesy. All this prophesy was about Israel just as most of the Bible chronicles the history of Israel. Since Israel was totally and utterly destroyed in 70 AD shouldn't we expect the Bible to devote much space to that event? It does but sadly most can't see that. 21st century America is not in focus, 1st century Israel was.

 

[PlainWord]

The 12, 000 represents a unknow as the golden measure a metaphor used in parables like the one of His bride.

Just like the 12,000 from each tribe which represent gates to the city prepared as the bride of Christ old testament saints times 12,000 reckoned by pillars as apostles . 1444,000 virgins an unknow .God does not give literal numbers

The golden ruler shows a parable is in view, using the temporal things seen to give us the unseen golden vision. The signified language given in the opening verse of Revelation 1

I did a little more research on tall buildings. First, it would have to have an enormous base and could not be a cube. The city described in Rev 21 used known materials so it needs to follow our laws of physics. Here's an excerpt from a story where skyscraper experts were asked about how tall they could make a building.

"We proved that it is physically and even programmatically possible to build a building a mile-and-a-half tall. If somebody would have said 'Do it two miles,' we probably could have done that, too," Johnson says. "A lot of it comes down to money. Who’s going to have that kind of capital?"

As far as the structure is concerned, others think it's possible, too. My colleague John Metcalfe recently pointed out a 1990s-era concept for a two-and-a-half-mile volcano-looking supertower in Tokyo called the X-Seed 4000 that has a similar Eiffel Towerishness to it.

As Metcalfe notes, this 4,000-meter "skypenetrator" was never built for a variety of reasons, but the most obvious is that "[r]eal estate in Tokyo isn't exactly cheap. The base of this abnormally swole tower would eat up blocks and blocks if it was to be stable." In fact the base of this structure, according to conceptual drawings, would have spread for miles and miles, almost like the base of Mount Fuji, itself about 225 meters smaller than the X-Seed 4000.

A building taller than a mountain seems preposterous. But according to Baker, it's entirely possible.

"You could conceivably go higher than the highest mountain, as long as you kept spreading a wider and wider base," Baker says.

Theoretically, then, a building could be built at least as tall as 8,849 meters, one meter taller than Mount Everest. The base of that mountain, according to these theoretical calculations, is about 4,100 square kilometers – a huge footprint for a building, even one with a hollow core. But given structural systems like the buttressed core, the base probably wouldn't need to be nearly as large as that of a mountain.

And this theoretical tallest building could probably go even taller than 8,849 meters, Baker says, because buildings are far lighter than solid mountains. The Burj Khalifa, he estimates, is about 15 percent structure and 85 percent air. Based on some quick math, if a building is only 15 percent as heavy as a solid object, it could be 6.6667 times taller and weigh the same as that solid object. A building could, hypothetically, climb to nearly 59,000 meters without outweighing Mount Everest or crushing the very earth below. Right?

"I'd have to come up with a considered opinion on that," says Baker.

How about an unconsidered opinion?

"I'm afraid I'm going to have to chicken out on you and not give you a number," Baker laughs. "This is the kind of thing I'd want to do with a student."

"If you get some funding for a grad student for a semester, I'll give you a number," Baker says.

So we still don't really know what the tallest building ever would be. In the meantime, Everest-plus-one is essentially the highest.

Nate Berg is a freelance reporter and a former staff writer for CityLab. He lives in Los Angeles.

Thus perhaps a building could be as tall as Everest at 8.849 KM. That is far less than the 2253 KM of new Jerusalem.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

The Woman of Rev 17 was the opposite. She was the Harlot, the opposite of the Bride. She was filthy and abominable. "She was drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus." It was the unbelieving Jewish religious leaders who did most of the Christian persecuting throughout the Roman Empire, especially in Jerusalem. This amazed John because this Woman (harlot) was the exact opposite of the Church.

OK, so if Rev 17 is all fulfilled, as you are so confident that it is, then you ought to be able to explain to us all that is in Rev 17:10-11

And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

So please enlighten us, who are these kings?

 

[garee]

Those who pierced Him were believers? Think again. It says, "EVERY" meaning both believer and unbeliever.

Yes mankind both. Christians before they were given the faith of Christ to believe God they were unbeliever's "no faith".

God has set eternity in the heart of sinful mankind but man has no faith by which he could reason in respect to the things of God not seen .Their consciences either accusing them or five minutes later excusing them . . a desperately wicked heart beyond repair .Only God can create a new heart and give a new spirit.

The every eye is the revealed wrath of God. A corrupted dying creation . The incorruptible new heavens and earth are just beyond the horizon.

The one time demonstration of the Son of man, Jesus. . who of his own flesh declared "it profits for nothing" worked with or yoked together our unseen father is over. God is not a man as us. I don't think another demonstration is promised .

Ecclesiastes 3:11 New International Version (NIV) He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end.

 

[PlainWord]

interesting points but also in revelation it does say 'every eye will see him' Jesus does not come back INVISIBLY. I dont think the heavenly city is a cube more of a pyramid and it would have life in it not death because the tree of life will be there again, so obviously there WILL be oxygen and water.

when John SAW this with his spiritual eyes he was realating to what he SAW not what he IMAGINED or God would have said this is just a symbol, I am TELLING you about, and John would have HEARD it but not SEEN it. in thr last two chapters of revelation John constantly refers to things he HEARD and SAW.

Not invisibly, His presence was as a flash of lightening. This is the description He gives in Mat 24:27. Can everyone kneel during a flash of lightening? Thus, He went down to Hades to resurrected the saints and it was there that everyone kneeled. What else does Jesus say? Something about the Kingdom coming without observation? Hmmm.

 

[Lanolin]

I'm interested in what happened in 1071 and who those kings were, do tell us plainword since you seem to know.

 

[PlainWord]

OK, so if Rev 17 is all fulfilled, as you are so confident that it is, then you ought to be able to explain to us all that is in Rev 17:10-11

And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

So please enlighten us, who are these kings?

Oh, I thought you had a tough question:

1. Julius Caesar
2. Caesar Augustus
3. Tiberius
4. Caligula
5. Claudius (my 97th GGF)
6. Nero, the king "who is"
7. Vespasian, "the other has not yet come"
8. Titus, "out of the seven he is, and to destruction he doth go away" YLT

Thus John wrote this during the reign of Nero, just as the Syrian Christians proclaimed.

The next three leaders would come during Rome's civil war AKA, "the Year of the 4 Emperors." It was during this period that the Beast appeared mortally wounded. The beast "died" with Nero as Rome plunged into darkness in a brutal year long civil war. These 3 short-term, non-legitimate emperors were not part of the 7 kings as none of them gained full control of the empire. Roman historian Tacitus says that the civil war triggered by Nero’s death was the darkest time in Roman history. It is this interval that is predicted in Revelation 16:10 where the beast’s kingdom is “cast into darkness.”

Keep in the mind, the beast descends into the Abyss, thus was not. These three kings Galba, Otho and Vitellius, came in rapid succession without a break, but there was a break between King 6 and 7 while Rome was in darkness. The next real emperor was Vespasian, the 7th King. The 8th King was Titus. Keep in mind, Vespasian, Titus and Domitian were named Emperor together, at the same time.

 

[PlainWord]

I'm interested in what happened in 1071 and who those kings were, do tell us plainword since you seem to know.

1071 had nothing to do with the 1st century kings. Please see my last post.

 

[RevelationMan]

ca

can you convert this to decimal system please? I have no idea how big that is.

Here is an interesting video that shows the New Jerusalem to scale

http://mobilelaz.com/judgmentday/newjerusalem.mp4