No sinner is saved by grace!!!

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Ramon

Guest
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No sinner is saved by grace!!! Sinners are not saved by grace because they are not under grace, but under the law. So, the law will judge them. Anyone who is under grace has ceased from sin. Jesus did not die so that people can continue to sin, he died to overcome sin, which leads to death. He came to give grace to those who believe and obey, which leads to righteousness, which leads to eternal life. Jesus did not die so you can keep on sinning. He died so that you might have life, and that more abundantly. Anyone who follows sin, follows it to the grave. You were once dead in sin, but now you MUST live alive to God. There is no excuse in grace for sin. In Jesus Christ the old man is killed, and the new man lives unto God, so let us cease from sin to obey Jesus.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

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We are disciplined for our sins and then forgiven. The greater the sin, the greater the discipline. The discipline can be very severe.
 
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wwjd_kilden

Guest
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You are forgetting one important thing Ramon

ALL HAVE SINNED
 
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Ramon

Guest
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wwjd_kilden said:
You are forgetting one important thing Ramon

ALL HAVE SINNED
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Because all have sinned gives no one excuse to continue in sin. Sin is never justifiable. May Jesus bless you.
 
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wwjd_kilden

Guest
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true, but the bible clearly says we are saved by FAITH, which would be by grace, and if we are all sinners, that title statement isn't really very valid
 
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Ramon

Guest
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wwjd_kilden said:
true, but the bible clearly says we are saved by FAITH, which would be by grace, and if we are all sinners, that title statement isn't really very valid
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I am not a sinner. Jesus didn't die to make me a sinner. We are all not sinners, which Satan has so sneakily promoted in the Church, so that people can go on believing they can go on living in sin and still be acceptable to God. NO! If you say you have faith in Jesus, then also obey him, and if you are under grace you are no longer a slave to the law of condemnation, but to the law of love. And that law says, love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul, and your neighbor as yourself. Now, if you love God then you hate sin as God hates sin, and you no longer engage in it. Don't be deceived God will judge ALL sinners.
 
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DiscipleWilliam

Guest
#7
#7
Greetings Ramon,

I just have one question, if we are not saved by grace then how do you reconcile Ephesians 2:5,8 my brother?
 
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choZn

Guest
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"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." Ephesians 2:8

"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Romans 6:14

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness, If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar and his word is not in us." 1 John 1: 8-10

"But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ." 2 Peter 3:18

The American Heritage Dictionary gives these definitions of GRACE: a. Divine love and protection bestowed feely upon mankind. b. The state of being protected or sanctified by the favor of God. c. Mercy; Clemency.

Salvation does not mean perfection. Christians are to grow in grace, making themselves willing instruments for the service for which they were created. One of my favorite quotes sums it up: "Faith is a journey, not a destination." Accepting Christ does not mean "You have arrived!" No, you have only just begun.
 
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Ramon

Guest
#9
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DiscipleWilliam said:
Greetings Ramon,

I just have one question, if we are not saved by grace then how do you reconcile Ephesians 2:5,8 my brother?
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Hi, how are you. Good to see you. It is true, that no sinner is saved by grace. In Ephesians that letter was to the Church, the body of believers, not to sinners. Once someone comes out from sin, he is no longer under the law but under grace. Sinners are not under grace, so they are not saved by it. Some believers however, say that they are sinners saved by grace, but many of them use it as an excuse to keep on sinning. So, since a sinner is not under grace before he or she becomes a believer, they are under the law, and subject to condemnation by the law, which there is no condemnation to those that are in Christ, who also WALK AFTER THE SPIRIT AND NOT AFTER THE FLESH. May Jesus bless you.
 
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VikkiKate89

VikkiKate89

Banned
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Jul 24, 2010
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Ramon said:
I am not a sinner.
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Hate to burst your bubble but...

Romans 3:23- "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."

1 John 1:8- "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."

Being saved doesn't mean you're perfect. You're still human, you're going to make mistakes.
 
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Ramon

Guest
#11
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VikkiKate89 said:
Hate to burst your bubble but...

Romans 3:23- "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."

1 John 1:8- "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."

Being saved doesn't mean you're perfect. You're still human, you're going to make mistakes.
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I am not a sinner. Yes I have sinned, yes I do slip. A drummer is a person who plays drums, we know that is his duty. A runner is a person who runs, we know that is his specialty. So when I say I am not a sinner, that is true. Jesus did not die to make us sinners, or else you would be saying Jesus did nothing on the cross. Those who are in Jesus Christ, who walk after the spirit do not sin, however anyone who walks after the flesh will sin. The issue is many believers think they can continue in sin, and so they use ''ALL HAVE SINNED.'' To justify their evil deeds. Anyone who is under grace has an advocate with the father, but anyone who is a sinner does not.

Anyone who is a sinner must repent of sin AND ALSO receive Jesus as Lord and savior, or else they do not have that same advocate with the father and are wide open for Satan's attacks. That is why you see people going to altars day after day but their hearts are not changed. And a believer must also repent if he slips. Being a disciple of Jesus Christ isn't a fashion show, it is something we are entrusted to. No sinners will enter heaven. May Jesus bless you.

p.s this is the difference between those whose sins are covered by the blood and those whose sins have not been covered.
 
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VikkiKate89

VikkiKate89

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Jul 24, 2010
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Ramon said:
I am not a sinner. Yes I have sinned, yes I do slip. A drummer is a person who plays drums, we know that is his duty. A runner is a person who runs, we know that is his specialty. So when I say I am not a sinner, that is true. Jesus did not die to make us sinners, or else you would be saying Jesus did nothing on the cross. Those who are in Jesus Christ, who walk after the spirit do not sin, however anyone who walks after the flesh will sin. The issue is many believers think they can continue in sin, and so they use ''ALL HAVE SINNED.'' To justify their evil deeds. Anyone who is under grace has an advocate with the father, but anyone who is a sinner does not.

Anyone who is a sinner must repent of sin AND ALSO receive Jesus as Lord and savior, or else they do not have that same advocate with the father and are wide open for Satan's attacks. That is why you see people going to altars day after day but their hearts are not changed. And a believer must also repent if he slips. Being a disciple of Jesus Christ isn't a fashion show, it is something we are entrusted to. No sinners will enter heaven. May Jesus bless you.

p.s this is the difference between those whose sins are covered by the blood and those whose sins have not been covered.
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I get what you're saying but a sinner is, by definition, someone who sins. Someone who isn't a sinner is someone who is perfect. I think you're getting the terms "sinner" and "not saved" confused.
 
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Ramon

Guest
#13
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VikkiKate89 said:
I get what you're saying but a sinner is, by definition, someone who sins. Someone who isn't a sinner is someone who is perfect. I think you're getting the terms "sinner" and "not saved" confused.
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No sinners will be saved. And the definition of perfect is in the likeness of God the Father, who is also perfect. Now you might say a person cannot be perfect, but that would be incorrect. And many people use this excuse to not strive to be like Christ but to remain in their own sin. We know that if our perfection was like the perfection of the Pharisees and the Sadducees we would not enter heaven by that perfection. But we were not saved by our own deeds, as they thought they might be saved. We were saved by HIS WORK. And this is how our righteousness surpasses theirs, by the righteousness of faith. However, what is faith without works? We should be perfect indeed, even as our father in heaven is perfect. We must strive to enter in through the narrow gate, because many people will be rejected by Jesus. Will he reject you? Does he know you? Are you sure you will be saved?
 
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Adrianv125

Senior Member
#15
Jan 17, 2011
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Sinners are indeed saved only by grace. We become justified as if we had never sinned by Christ. If their faith is one that saves they will produce fruits. Period. Be careful what you say, you are contradicting scripture by saying sinners are not saved by grace. Those who truly believe in Christ do the will of the father and keep His commands, and only those will see the kingdom of God.
 
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Ramon

Guest
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VikkiKate89 said:
I give up lol.
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Hmm, that isn't like you vikkiKate89. I want to speak plainly to you. This is for your benefit, and mine (sometimes I have to read my posts again for my own benefit, as they go for me too). Does a tree ever stop growing? Does it ever stop taking in sunlight and making it's roots get deeper and deeper in the ground so that a simple wind will not blow it over? Does it ever stop receiving rain? Does it ever stop going through seasons, being pruned and trimmed?

VikkiKate, you and I are like trees. Some trees don't have deep roots, some do. Some trees produce bad fruit, some produce good fruit. Any tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

Adam could have eaten from the tree of life, but he chose to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Jesus is that tree of life, that if anyone eats from him he will have life, and eternal life.

Was this plain enough? lol.
 
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Ramon

Guest
#17
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Adrianv125 said:
Sinners are indeed saved only by grace. We become justified as if we had never sinned by Christ. If their faith is one that saves they will produce fruits. Period. Be careful what you say, you are contradicting scripture by saying sinners are not saved by grace. Those who truly believe in Christ do the will of the father and keep His commands, and only those will see the kingdom of God.
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It is true, we become justified as if we had never sinned by Christ, as we all have sinned. It is true that anyone that has the correct faith in Jesus will produce fruit, but not only fruit, GOOD FRUIT. It may seem that I am contradicting scripture, but maybe you haven't heard what I am saying. No sinner is saved by grace. Lets look at the woman who committed adultery. She sinned as it was plain, and they wanted to condemn her to death, and Jesus said, let he who has not sinned cast the first stone. They could not. Then he said to the lady, does anyone condemn you? She says, NO LORD. And he said, neither do I condemn you. Then he said GO, SIN NO MORE!!

Many believers want to leave this part out concerning grace. They think that grace is a pardon of that one sin so they can be free to sin again. What do you think this lady would get if she died doing the same thing again? Grace? NO! Grace has a limit. The limit of grace is when judgement is set. There is no grace for the people in hell. All sinners will end up in hell. They will not be saved by grace. They will be condemned because of unrighteousness. If anyone wants to be a disciple of Christ they need to also follow him.
 
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Adrianv125

Senior Member
#18
Jan 17, 2011
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You are expanding on the theme that people who truly have a faith don't sin, their desire is taken away by the Holy Spirit. Those who sin on purpose and in a premeditated manner do not have the Holy Spirit in them.

1 John 1:5-6 (New King James Version)

5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

What you are expanding on is biblical. No practitioner of sin is truly of God, and their faith is not one that saves. But sinners, in a sense that we were once lost in our transgressions and truly came to the knowledge of Christ and were truly born again, are truly saved by grace.
 
VikkiKate89

VikkiKate89

Banned
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Jul 24, 2010
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Ramon said:
Was this plain enough? lol.
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Wow, could you have worded that more condescendingly?

Again I will state a sinner is by definition someone who sins. If you sin you are a sinner. The Bible is BEYOND clear on that. You can be saved but you will never stop being a sinner because you will never be perfect. You can make an honest effort to live a right life, but in the end you will still make mistakes and you will still sometimes sin. That's why forgiveness exists. Not to mention the actual verses that state that you are saved by grace which already completely contradicts the title of this thread, and if you'll notice, I'm not the only one who has been pointing this out.

It's not that I don't understand what you're trying to say, it's that I'm pointing out how it's not accurate. You are a sinner. You may be saved and living your life for God now, but you're still going to sometimes sin, and you've already said yourself that you do, which makes you a sinner. Again, I think you're getting "sinner" and "not saved" confused and forcing them to mean the same thing when they really don't.
 
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Ramon

Guest
#20
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VikkiKate89 said:
Wow, could you have worded that more condescendingly?

Again I will state a sinner is by definition someone who sins. If you sin you are a sinner. The Bible is BEYOND clear on that. You can be saved but you will never stop being a sinner because you will never be perfect. You can make an honest effort to live a right life, but in the end you will still make mistakes and you will still sometimes sin. That's why forgiveness exists. Not to mention the actual verses that state that you are saved by grace which already completely contradicts the title of this thread, and if you'll notice, I'm not the only one who has been pointing this out.

It's not that I don't understand what you're trying to say, it's that I'm pointing out how it's not accurate. You are a sinner. You may be saved and living your life for God now, but you're still going to sometimes sin, and you've already said yourself that you do, which makes you a sinner. Again, I think you're getting "sinner" and "not saved" confused and forcing them to mean the same thing when they really don't.
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My friend, never meant to be condescending, just thought maybe a parable, which is for the intent to hide a truth in plain sight, might be appropriate.

Once again, the letter of Ephesians was not addressed to sinners, it was addressed to the believers, who, indeed are saved by grace through faith. But sinners cannot be saved by grace if they are not under grace. You still say it is impossible for one to be perfect, but that is not true. We will be perfect, as the bride of Jesus Christ MUST BE. But why would you settle for anything less than perfect.

I tell you, many people in hell have an eternity to think about what they could have done more to not end up in hell, and I am sure some of their ideas would have made them spotless. I am sure they can think of millions of things they could have done more, or many things they could have stopped doing. On the part of a believer, they should be more desirous to be like Christ, even in the fullness. Without this, they become idle, thinking they have arrived at glory, and will be rejected by Jesus, and stop striving to be like him. Again, no sinner in hell is saved. They are forever there and are tortured in the flame that does not go out. Grace is for those who are being saved, and anyone who will be saved. But the wicked are not under grace. That is why I say repent. May Jesus bless you.
 
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