Not By Works
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It isn't, but that hardly means we don't have to have the will to be saved to be saved.
I'm kind of disappointed with your responses. You don't seem to have much to say beyond 'no that's not true'.
And I sense you are thoroughly hardened in your once saved always saved point of view. I have never seen more hardened and obstinate indoctrinations than I have in the once saved always saved group. It's impossible to talk about it with that crowd, they are so thoroughly blinded by it in all it's various forms.
Even though many people are not Calvinists, they stick pretty hard to the part of Calvinism that says we're all just a bunch of robots and we don't do anything but just go along for the ride. There's really no point in talking to people who believe that. It's probably the most blinding teaching in the church these days. It started with Augustine, picked up steam with Luther and Calvin, and now the leaven of that teaching has worked it's way very far into the dough, except now with the completely blasphemous teaching that you don't even have to still trust in Christ and can be in outright unbelief and rejection of Christ and you are still saved. As discouraging as that is, I know there are still the few who find the narrow road that leads to life. Ultimately, once saved always saved doctrine doesn't take a person there. It takes them in the opposite direction, all the while making them think they're on the straight and narrow. The few will see that, though.
I'm kind of disappointed with your responses. You don't seem to have much to say beyond 'no that's not true'.
And I sense you are thoroughly hardened in your once saved always saved point of view. I have never seen more hardened and obstinate indoctrinations than I have in the once saved always saved group. It's impossible to talk about it with that crowd, they are so thoroughly blinded by it in all it's various forms.
Even though many people are not Calvinists, they stick pretty hard to the part of Calvinism that says we're all just a bunch of robots and we don't do anything but just go along for the ride. There's really no point in talking to people who believe that. It's probably the most blinding teaching in the church these days. It started with Augustine, picked up steam with Luther and Calvin, and now the leaven of that teaching has worked it's way very far into the dough, except now with the completely blasphemous teaching that you don't even have to still trust in Christ and can be in outright unbelief and rejection of Christ and you are still saved. As discouraging as that is, I know there are still the few who find the narrow road that leads to life. Ultimately, once saved always saved doctrine doesn't take a person there. It takes them in the opposite direction, all the while making them think they're on the straight and narrow. The few will see that, though.
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When you read the whole passage you can see that it's impossible to interpret vs. 19 the way once saved always saved does. You are the one's with the blinders on, refusing to acknowledge these verses.
1 John 2:24-28
As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
25This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.
26These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.
28Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming.
It's impossible for vs. 19 to mean what you say it means in the light of these verses following it. But I know as long as you have cessationist teachers like John McArthur (who I used to respect) telling the many that believing is a work of the works gospel and that you believe because God waved his magic wand over you and made you a believer according to his choice, not yours, the once saved always saved/ Calvinesque group will not be willing or able to consider the simple and plain words of the Bible that prevent once saved always saved from being true.
The brackets you added are from the rest of the counsel of the Bible. You can't take these passages and isolate them from the rest of what the Bible says about the subject. But that is exactly what once saved always saved does.
1 John 2:24-28
As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
25This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.
26These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.
28Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming.
It's impossible for vs. 19 to mean what you say it means in the light of these verses following it. But I know as long as you have cessationist teachers like John McArthur (who I used to respect) telling the many that believing is a work of the works gospel and that you believe because God waved his magic wand over you and made you a believer according to his choice, not yours, the once saved always saved/ Calvinesque group will not be willing or able to consider the simple and plain words of the Bible that prevent once saved always saved from being true.
The brackets you added are from the rest of the counsel of the Bible. You can't take these passages and isolate them from the rest of what the Bible says about the subject. But that is exactly what once saved always saved does.
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Of course it is. That's not in debate.
Thank you for your opinion, but you're going to need more than that to make a case.
Of course our salvation is perfect, because Jesus is perfect. It's not like the redemption you received under the first covenant. But that perfection hardly means you can't change whether you have it or not. We're not robots. But I know once that horrible teaching about being pre-programmed robots gets a hold in someone's brain it's probably not going to be unseated. If only you understood that's a relatively new teaching in the church.
Maybe one of the biggest reasons so many people are on the wide road of destruction of Calvin's 'you're just a robot' once saved always saved teaching is they don't know church history. They don't even realize that even one of Calvin's primary once saved always saved tenets has been largely discarded by the church and replaced with a completely different new teaching. You did not know this, did you?
Thank you for your opinion, but you're going to need more than that to make a case.
Of course our salvation is perfect, because Jesus is perfect. It's not like the redemption you received under the first covenant. But that perfection hardly means you can't change whether you have it or not. We're not robots. But I know once that horrible teaching about being pre-programmed robots gets a hold in someone's brain it's probably not going to be unseated. If only you understood that's a relatively new teaching in the church.
Maybe one of the biggest reasons so many people are on the wide road of destruction of Calvin's 'you're just a robot' once saved always saved teaching is they don't know church history. They don't even realize that even one of Calvin's primary once saved always saved tenets has been largely discarded by the church and replaced with a completely different new teaching. You did not know this, did you?
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You are!!
All your proof texts are not regarding in eternal salvation.... they are regarding the Christian walk and fellowship with God
Salvation is eternal.... I gave a list of things God does at the moment were are saved.
OSAS IS the Gospel.... scripture plainly teaches it and a born again person knows this is true... the Holy Spirit confirms it within us.
With regards to Calvinism. I have already told you both Calvinism and Arminius are wrong...
Salvation is not gained by an act of our will, therefore cannot be lost by an act of our will... so not connected to the nature of the human will.
Salvation is a permanent, irreversible, irrevocable gift... it is you that refuses to see.
All your proof texts are not regarding in eternal salvation.... they are regarding the Christian walk and fellowship with God
Salvation is eternal.... I gave a list of things God does at the moment were are saved.
OSAS IS the Gospel.... scripture plainly teaches it and a born again person knows this is true... the Holy Spirit confirms it within us.
With regards to Calvinism. I have already told you both Calvinism and Arminius are wrong...
Salvation is not gained by an act of our will, therefore cannot be lost by an act of our will... so not connected to the nature of the human will.
Salvation is a permanent, irreversible, irrevocable gift... it is you that refuses to see.
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The perfect and aorist Greek verb tenses as well as context and the definition of the words are clear enough....Salvation, Justification, being Sealed And Sanctified positionally in Christ are all eternally applied by faith to one that has genuinely trusted into Christ by faith. Any dogma that denies that is as false as satanism is.....!
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You do not get it, do you. Even IF you work hard trying to earn SALVATION, you will fall at least a 1000 Miles short of SALVATION.
You can NEVER be GOOD Enough to even come close to earning your SALVATION.
WE DESPERATELY NEED A MESSIAH, to do it for us.
One Stumble and your are GUILTY of the ENTIRE LAW.
James 2:10 (NIV)
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good And does not sin.
You really DO NOT UNDERSTAND GOD's Standard for Perfection. IF we do not receive CHRIST as payment in full for ALL OF OUR SIN, we are going to Hades and Hell.
What do you think THIS VERSE IS ALL ABOUT:
1 Corinthians 7:23 (NCV)
23 You all were bought at a great price, . . .
THAT IS THE GREAT PRICE, the FATHER DEMANDED TO REDEEM THE BRIDE, a HOLY BLOOD SACRIFICE.
NONE OF IT WE PAID FOR OURSELVES.