Five Articles of the Remonstrance of Jacobus Arminius of 1610

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Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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yeah

he's gonna want compensation when he's older...

I did see teddy...but I thought he was stuffed...not with deer :geek:
No, it's a live bear not stuffed. They're both enthralled with Santa so I don't think they notice each other .
OK he's not a "live" bear , but you get it.
The rabbit is adorable. Again outnumbered by two carnivores.
Hope he lives at least to Easter. :p
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
No, it's a live bear not stuffed. They're both enthralled with Santa so I don't think they notice each other .
OK he's not a "live" bear , but you get it.
The rabbit is adorable. Again outnumbered by two carnivores.
Hope he lives at least to Easter. :p
ok....well the bunny and what seems to be a baby wolfkin are cut off in your avatar

baby deer is hoping for job when he is older...maybe wheel deer or something

actually it's pretty cute

I used to change my pic often but I have been stuck with that Siberian for a long time now ....
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
No, it's a live bear not stuffed. They're both enthralled with Santa so I don't think they notice each other .
OK he's not a "live" bear , but you get it.
The rabbit is adorable. Again outnumbered by two carnivores.
Hope he lives at least to Easter. :p

I only eat chocolate bunnies although I have had lapin au vin once or twice

the vin gets burned off but I am not a prohibitionist ...looks around to see who is looking....
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
ok

so where were we in the Remonstrance?

think I will take a couple of x's and watch something funny on tv
 

Whispered

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Aug 17, 2019
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I only eat chocolate bunnies although I have had lapin au vin once or twice

the vin gets burned off but I am not a prohibitionist ...looks around to see who is looking....
Nobody's looking, your secret is safe with me.
I can't bring myself to order lapin au vin. I have wild rabbits that run around my yard. I can't see them plated up for dinner. :(
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Nobody's looking, your secret is safe with me.
I can't bring myself to order lapin au vin. I have wild rabbits that run around my yard. I can't see them plated up for dinner. :(

well someone cooked it for me...so...

we once had a rabbit that appeared hopping around in the snow in the backyard almost every evening

it was during the winter Olympics way back and so I named him Olimbia...could have been Olympia but didn't know if he was Greek or not

ok the jokes are getting sad

time to sign off

have fun and try to be nice for a change ;)
 

Whispered

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Aug 17, 2019
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ok....well the bunny and what seems to be a baby wolfkin are cut off in your avatar
I couldn't adjust it to include all the fur cuties, so I had to make a choice. Bear, dear, wolf, or no head Santa, so all the animals appear.
This close to Christmas I can't behead Santa.

baby deer is hoping for job when he is older...maybe wheel deer or something
Unless Rudolf retires he'll probably just be one of the sleigh pullers in future.

actually it's pretty cute
Thanks. I thought so too. I love baby animals anyway.

I used to change my pic often but I have been stuck with that Siberian for a long time now ....
I get bored easily with the same old same. That's why I change up my siggy pic and avatar .
There's something you don't see everyday.
 

Whispered

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Aug 17, 2019
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well someone cooked it for me...so...

we once had a rabbit that appeared hopping around in the snow in the backyard almost every evening

it was during the winter Olympics way back and so I named him Olimbia...could have been Olympia but didn't know if he was Greek or not
Awww.
You didn't know if he was Greek or not. :ROFL: How did you know it was a he? :p

ok the jokes are getting sad

time to sign off

have fun and try to be nice for a change ;)
I know, I gotta work on that. :giggle:
Goodnight. I hope you feel better come morning.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
You're not making any sense. Do you imbibe? Post #73 is a post by ieuan, not you. But I will take your advice and cease addressing you from now on. I took people I put on my ignore list off after reading someone post as to why they do not avail themselves of that option even when set upon by some of the worst here.
I realize I shouldn't have made that choice as concerns your name. My bad, easily corrected.

P/S great way to get out of answering my questions concerning your earlier reply. Nice trick.
Not from this thread, from another thread. I copied it and pasted, your words to me from a whole other thread.

I never put anyone on ignor, I do however expect them to keep their words.

Yes Christians still commit sin.
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
I couldn't adjust it to include all the fur cuties, so I had to make a choice. Bear, dear, wolf, or no head Santa, so all the animals appear.
This close to Christmas I can't behead Santa.

Unless Rudolf retires he'll probably just be one of the sleigh pullers in future.

Thanks. I thought so too. I love baby animals anyway.

I get bored easily with the same old same. That's why I change up my siggy pic and avatar .
There's something you don't see everyday.

doggone...I told my dog to quit the street dancing :mad:...we have a big old Siberian

interesting....I too get bored a little too easily

but I love Sibers

no

you can't behead the jolly old man. you would have a gang of elves looking for you. who's gonna pay 'em?

besides, Santa spots them all a vaca in the Bermuda Triangle every year after the work is done

he keeps having to rehire :confused:
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Awww.
You didn't know if he was Greek or not. :ROFL: How did you know it was a he? :p

I know, I gotta work on that. :giggle:
Goodnight. I hope you feel better come morning.

nope. didn't know. because it said Mr Rabbit by his address

thanks

well...it won't do me in...I've had worse
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
and so to sleep perchance to dream

 
I

ieuan

Guest
Whispered
Repeats some familiar accusations against Reformed theology, namely

1. RT makes God out to be a monster
2. Jesus died only for His sheep
3. Total depravity bars men from truly embracing Christ
4. RT teaches double predestination

You imply I might not have read the Synod (Canons) of Dordt, in fact I have quoted
it several times in this thread, so yes, I have read it.

1. In making God out to be a monster that depends on your own personal view of God.
We can say with confidence that God is:
Holy (absolutely Holy with no shadow of turning)
Perfect in all His ways - in mercy, faithfulness, forgiveness and wrath, justice
Love (God is perfect love so much so He gave His only begotten son to save the world)
All powerful (Sovereign in ways we cannot fathom)
Ever present (even in Hell He is there)

Being perfect in wrath means He will punish the wicked. This does not make God a monster, but a Tyrant
but being a tyrant He is perfect in Love and Mercy something we cannot comprehend at times.

2. Jesus died for all men, for the whole world. But most of the world reject Jesus so His shed blood
does not remove their sin, they lack fath so they bring condemnation down on their own heads,
it is not Jesus' fault they die in sin, it is their fault in rjecting such a saviour. So in efect Jesus
died only for His sheep.

3. Total depravity bars men from believing, yes, this si the fallen state from Adam. Our federal head, Adam fell,
hence all creation fell into darkness. This total depravity is balanced by common grace and God providence
to all in His cretaion. This sin't dealt with in detail in the Cannons of Dordt, but if you look carefully there is
a breif reference to it as the 'light of Nature'. Men reject God because it is convenient for them to do so, they
have no interest in God as long as their belly is full and they can indulge their baser natures in pelasure. They
see clearly the beauty of God's creation, but prefer to move on in their pleasures much of them sinful acts of
self indulgence. They are base and wicked, Christ is held up in every church through the world yet they still
reject Him and His teachings of love. They inherited the sin of Adam and they lie there in sin, God has called them
graciously, that if they follow Him and love Him they will be rescued from that body of sin, but they refuse. So
God leaves them in that estate, it is His sovereign pleasure to do that, see Romans 9 posted earlier: Who are oyu
oh man to critisise God. God chooses to call who He will and to leave others where they are. It iHis soveriegn
will. God is willing that all should be saved, yet Jesus wept over Jerusalem, yet left them in their unbelief.
Who are we to judge God, who He calls, and who He passes by?

4. Double predestination is in event the state of things, as they are, as He has meant them to be. A dead man
cannot save himself, a dead dog cannot be revived not without supernatural power. Gopd chooses to elave
them as dead dogs, He calls them and even gives them grace, yet they choose to die in sin and even mock
hell, the place they will end up in.

Thank you for treating this thread seriously. :)
 
I

ieuan

Guest
The Synod of Dord was convened to answer the charge of hersey levied agisnt Jacobus Arminius and his follwers
in their 5 points of reference made in their Remonstrance. The synod consisted of representatives from the 17
provinces ((modern day Belgium, Netherlands, Luxenberg and representatives from the United Kingdom
(as it was a Protestant country and at war with Spain). The representatives were theologians and leaders
in those national churches, that meant they were familiar with the original langauges of the Bible, Greek, Hebrew
and Latin. In short they did not invent stories for the five rebuttal arguments bet spent years studying and quoted
scripture throughout.

The above makes it a rather hollow claim that they did not use scripture.
 
I

ieuan

Guest
Synod of Dort

Held in 1618-19 in the Netherlands town of Dort (Dordrecht), the synod produced the Canons of Dort,
one of the doctrinal standards of the Dutch Reformed Church. It affirms the orthodox Calvinist
position on predestination and related issues, and was directed against the Remonstrants
or Arminians, who wanted a statement which allowed some role for the human will. Arminius
died in 1609; in 1610 his followers issued the Remonstrance* against the orthodox insistence
on unconditioned predestination; in 1611 a Counter-Remonstrance reiterated the orthodox
stand; and bitter controversy flared.

Apart from predestination, other issues became involved: the Remonstrants wanted a tolerant
church, but one under state supervision, which the Contra-Remonstrants saw as an attack on the
independence of the church. Even worse, political issues became entangled with theological
passions. After the assassination of William the Silent (1584), two leaders emerged to carry on
the fight against Spain: William's son Maurice, the stadhouder and military leader, and
Jan van Oldenbarneveldt, the statesman. By 1609 a truce with Spain was arranged, and the two
leaders drifted into disagreement. Maurice favored a strong centralized government to carry on
the war of liberation; Oldenbarneveldt, controlling the province of Holland, wanted provincial
autonomy and peace. Oldenbarneveldt supported the Remonstrants, and Maurice the
Contra-Remonstrants. The political struggle escalated, and when Oldenbarneveldt raised
a provincial militia under his control, Maurice sent in the army and arrested him
(he was later executed for treason). It was in this situation that Dort convened.
Maurice's victory meant, among other things, that the churches elected Contra-Remonstrant
delegates; the Remonstrants, who had hoped for Oldenbarneveldt's powerful support,
faced a synod packed against them.

Called by the Estates-General, the synod included delegates elected by the synods
of the various provinces. Also present as advisers were delegates from Calvinist churches
in England and Scotland (James I was strongly anti-Remonstrant), and in the German states;
French Calvinists were invited, but were forbidden (by Louis XIII) to attend. The Estates-General
chose five theological professors and eighteen commissioners, also to give advice. The regular
delegates numbered fifty-six. The synod took the position that it was convened to judge whether
the Remonstrant position was in accord with the Calvinist confessions, and cited Episcopius
and other Remonstrant leaders to appear before it. Despite Remonstrant protests that the issue
was whether the confessions should be revised, synod proceeded. Episcopius denounced the
synod as unqualified and unrepresentative, and he refused to cooperate.

Judging the Remonstrants by their writings, then, the synod not surprisingly concluded that
they were not orthodox. The Canons were written to summarize the orthodox position against
the Remonstrants, and affirmed total depravity (i.e., man, after the Fall, cannot choose to serve God),
unconditional election (God's choice of the elect is not conditioned on any action by them),
limited atonement (Christ died for the elect only, since those He died for are saved), irresistible
grace (divine grace cannot be rejected by the elect), and perseverance of the saints (once elect,
always elect). The Canons were adopted as one of the standards of the Dutch Reformed Church.
Remonstrant ministers were ousted from their pulpits, and Remonstrant leaders ousted from the
country (by the Estates- General, as disturbers of the peace). The synod ended with a banquet
(9 May 1619), celebrating the triumph of Calvinist orthodoxy. Oldenbarneveldt was executed
shortly afterward.

See D. Nobbs, Theocracy and Toleration: A Study of the Disputes in Dutch Calvinism, 1600-1650 (1938).
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
ieuan, post
Repeats some familiar accusations against Reformed theology, namely

1. RT makes God out to be a monster
2. Jesus died only for His sheep
3. Total depravity bars men from truly embracing Christ
4. RT teaches double predestination



I am no Calvinists, also am no Arminian.
I would like to make a few short simple points.
Anyone who thinks that God is a moral monster for doing with his own things what so ever he chooses has a problem with the sovereignty of God. As it is written some vessels are for Honor and some for dishonor, sadly this is true. If you think anything is out of the hands of God then you miss the boat. I was listening to a preacher just yesterday that had a pretty good explanation of how Human will works with the will of God. I dont have the ability to quote him in depth but basically, he said sure we have a free will buy it does nothing to affect God's sovereign will.

With point 2 it's clearly written that Jesus died once for all. Now this does not say that all will actually receive only that the benefit is available and effectual for all.

3. Not does not. The fact is that humanity is totally depraved and incapable of any real goodness. Our flesh desires only that which is evil and immoral as seems pleasure only.
Until the convicting power of the Holy Spirit breaks the will of the flesh it only resists.

Double predestination is a strange statement. There is no such state as a double positive. It's an either or proposition.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Then I don't know what her problem with what I said is.

Then again I don't much care. She never makes much sense to me anyway.

well it seems you might be misunderstanding each other

this thread is a wash anyway

we have had so many of these kinds of threads lately it's like using a plunger to shove it a people

dude just wants a stage...wants to post what he wants to post and doesn't respond except to scold

nothing to see here :whistle:

I'm neither A or C either

I don't like labels

people seem to love them though.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Judging the Remonstrants by their writings, then, the synod not surprisingly concluded that they were not orthodox. The Canons were written to summarize the orthodox position against the Remonstrants, and affirmed total depravity (i.e., man, after the Fall, cannot choose to serve God), unconditional election (God's choice of the elect is not conditioned on any action by them), limited atonement (Christ died for the elect only, since those He died for are saved), irresistible grace (divine grace cannot be rejected by the elect), and perseverance of the saints (once elect, always elect). The Canons were adopted as one of the standards of the Dutch Reformed Church.
No doubt that the Reformed Churches believed that their position was *orthodox*. But TULIP is NOT the true Gospel at all.

T = Total Depravity = sinners are regenerated BEFORE they believe

U = Unconditional Election = God chooses some for salvation and others for damnation


L = Limited Atonement = Christ died only for the so-called elect, and everyone else is out of luck

I = Irresistible Grace = The so-called elect cannot help but be saved

P = Perseverance of the Saints = The so-called elect will always persevere in their Christianity

All these teachings turn the Gospel on its head, since if they were true there would be no need for the Gospel.
 

TooFastTurtle

Active member
Apr 10, 2019
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whispered...quick...there is this dude in a red suit got his mitts on that adorable fawn...oh but wait...that wolfy looking blue eyed Samurai dog husky wolf creature might save the day

don't mind me

I had a root canal done today and I only have OTC pain dealers. good thing I am high tolerance.

at least the tooth is save able...will be there for the Christmas meal with the neighbors ;)
What are OTC pain dealers? Dental work is the worst. Hope you make a quick recovery and are able to eat and sleep peacefully.

I just realized the acronym means over the counter. Gotcha. Those are very mild indeed.