Romans 10:9
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It seems to me you might be having trouble wrapping your head around the Trinity, which is a concept a lot of people have trouble with. At times I still have trouble with it to be perfectly honest.
The best explanation I have heard (and one that is very common) is with respect to H2o, or water. Water can be liquid, solid or gas....water like in a glass, water that is frozen solid into ice, and water vapor. All three can be expressed as H2o....same compound in three different forms. So God is the Father, and also The Son, and also the Holy Spirit.
So what does it mean that God raised Jesus from the dead? That's where the questioning comes in I believe. With Jesus being God, then does it mean that God raised God from the dead? This probably gets into some heavy duty theology that I'm not qualified or learned enough to comment on so I will wait on others and read along.
The best explanation I have heard (and one that is very common) is with respect to H2o, or water. Water can be liquid, solid or gas....water like in a glass, water that is frozen solid into ice, and water vapor. All three can be expressed as H2o....same compound in three different forms. So God is the Father, and also The Son, and also the Holy Spirit.
So what does it mean that God raised Jesus from the dead? That's where the questioning comes in I believe. With Jesus being God, then does it mean that God raised God from the dead? This probably gets into some heavy duty theology that I'm not qualified or learned enough to comment on so I will wait on others and read along.
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The human body is a vessel, it carries the Holy Spirit or your soul. The soul can never be destroyed, hence the lake of fire , ie hell. The soul isn't destroyed there, just standing in a very high temperature for eternity. So therefore, Jesus fleshly body was destroyed but not his soul. He returned in the same body to demonstrate resurrection in a way mankind would understand.
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I know many have a difficult time grasping GOD reconciling MEN unto himself.....think of it this way....
Jesus Christ is both GOD AND MAN.....
Jesus said...If you have seen me, you have seen the FATHER.....
God disrobing himself of glory, taking the form of man and bringing both God and man into union by the cross.....
a very difficult concept to grasp because we fail to look at it through the lense of the all power God's perspective.....we attempt to grasp it through humanistic reasoning...
God's ways are SOOOOOO MUCH HIGHER than our ways....
Jesus Christ is both GOD AND MAN.....
Jesus said...If you have seen me, you have seen the FATHER.....
God disrobing himself of glory, taking the form of man and bringing both God and man into union by the cross.....
a very difficult concept to grasp because we fail to look at it through the lense of the all power God's perspective.....we attempt to grasp it through humanistic reasoning...
God's ways are SOOOOOO MUCH HIGHER than our ways....
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Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Lord means Master! Have you seen the Master and where he dwelleth?
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Lord means Master! Have you seen the Master and where he dwelleth?
Romans 10: KJV
9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
Who raised Jesus from the dead? God did..
(John 2:18-22) "¶ Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? {19} Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. {20} Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? {21} But he spake of the temple of his body. {22} When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said."
Who raised Jesus up from the dead? Jesus did.
Both statements are true because Jesus is God..
9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
Who raised Jesus from the dead? God did..
(John 2:18-22) "¶ Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? {19} Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. {20} Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? {21} But he spake of the temple of his body. {22} When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said."
Who raised Jesus up from the dead? Jesus did.
Both statements are true because Jesus is God..
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nowhere is it written that Jesus and the Father are one. Jesus said "I and the Father are one". There is a separation between Jesus and "I". Jesus is the angel of "I" and "I" (or the Lamb) is part of who God is and will not be limited to any particular name or label. He is just who He is. He has left his name with us and we are to be managers of His name (Jesus).
You would be wise to stick with the King James Bible:
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
"God" in verse 9 does refer to God the Father. At the same time one must be clear that the triune Godhead (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) were all involved with the resurrection of Christ. The Father raised Him, Christ raised Himself, and the Holy Spirit also raised Him. If this is difficult to comprehend it must simply by accepted on faith, since this is what the Bible reveals.
But what is this passage teaching us? That is what's important:
1. "Confess" means "profess" or PUBLICLY DECLARE. So God expects every genuine believer to publicly declare ("with thy/the mouth") that he or she has put their total faith and trust in Christ and His finished work of redemption. PLUS NOTHING. That they are not counting on their own good works, or water baptism, or their church member, or tithing, or charitable giving, or anything else, in order to be saved.
2. The finished work of Christ is that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, for our justification. Every believer must understand these basic truths about the Gospel and acknowledge them.
3. Saving faith is from the heart ("believe in thine heart"). It must be genuine, and while repentance is not mentioned in this passage, it is a condition for salvation as much as faith (Acts 2:38;3:19)
4. But at the same time, how and when should this public declaration be made? The most appropriate time would be JUST BEFORE BAPTISM when other Christians are witnessing the baptism of believers. And Christian baptism should be almost immediately after conversion (as you will note in the book of Acts).
5. Take the example of the Ethiopian eunuch and Philip in Acts 8. If you use the NIV you will not find this verse: And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. [EXAMPLE OF CONFESSING WITH THE MOUTH] [Note: "Son of God" = God = LORD Jesus]
Why was it removed? Expunged? Primarily because the traditionalist churches did not believe in believer's baptism. They practised infant baptism and believed in baptismal regeneration, hence the corrupted Greek manuscripts expunged this verse. But as you can see it is critical in understanding Romans 10:9, since Acts 8:38 says this: And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
"God" in verse 9 does refer to God the Father. At the same time one must be clear that the triune Godhead (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) were all involved with the resurrection of Christ. The Father raised Him, Christ raised Himself, and the Holy Spirit also raised Him. If this is difficult to comprehend it must simply by accepted on faith, since this is what the Bible reveals.
But what is this passage teaching us? That is what's important:
1. "Confess" means "profess" or PUBLICLY DECLARE. So God expects every genuine believer to publicly declare ("with thy/the mouth") that he or she has put their total faith and trust in Christ and His finished work of redemption. PLUS NOTHING. That they are not counting on their own good works, or water baptism, or their church member, or tithing, or charitable giving, or anything else, in order to be saved.
2. The finished work of Christ is that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, for our justification. Every believer must understand these basic truths about the Gospel and acknowledge them.
3. Saving faith is from the heart ("believe in thine heart"). It must be genuine, and while repentance is not mentioned in this passage, it is a condition for salvation as much as faith (Acts 2:38;3:19)
4. But at the same time, how and when should this public declaration be made? The most appropriate time would be JUST BEFORE BAPTISM when other Christians are witnessing the baptism of believers. And Christian baptism should be almost immediately after conversion (as you will note in the book of Acts).
5. Take the example of the Ethiopian eunuch and Philip in Acts 8. If you use the NIV you will not find this verse: And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. [EXAMPLE OF CONFESSING WITH THE MOUTH] [Note: "Son of God" = God = LORD Jesus]
Why was it removed? Expunged? Primarily because the traditionalist churches did not believe in believer's baptism. They practised infant baptism and believed in baptismal regeneration, hence the corrupted Greek manuscripts expunged this verse. But as you can see it is critical in understanding Romans 10:9, since Acts 8:38 says this: And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days!
(John 2:19)
the temple He had spoken of was to body
(John 2:21)
the fact alone that you realize something amazing is being said here, so profound that you can barely begin to grasp it, makes you more qualified than a larger number of people than you might realize ♥
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Thanks for the encouraging words posthuman.....every now and again the light switch gets turned on. My faith is becoming deeper and more layered with each passing week, month and year. Another concept that caused me much pondering was the whole question of grace and works. Intellectually I know that I am saved by grace and grace alone, but deep down in my heart I sometimes question it.
There are members of the church I attend who express a very common view....'if someone lives a good life, that should be good enough'. I think its a laudable (positive) sentiment to have, after all scripture teaches us that we are not to sit in judgement.....and the manner in which we judge others, that is the way we will be judged. The light when on for me with a passage from Corinthians about being saved by grace alone lest anyone should boast.
If simply living a good life on balance is all that is required to be reunited with The Father, then the cross has zero meaning. Works as I understand it are the work of The Spirit....and this is something I need to work on in my walk. I still want recognition from others for my good works, to be thought well of by my friends, family and colleagues....for my own sake. I want people to say 'he's a really good guy'....I need to get to that place where I'm only concerned about pleasing The Lord.
There are members of the church I attend who express a very common view....'if someone lives a good life, that should be good enough'. I think its a laudable (positive) sentiment to have, after all scripture teaches us that we are not to sit in judgement.....and the manner in which we judge others, that is the way we will be judged. The light when on for me with a passage from Corinthians about being saved by grace alone lest anyone should boast.
If simply living a good life on balance is all that is required to be reunited with The Father, then the cross has zero meaning. Works as I understand it are the work of The Spirit....and this is something I need to work on in my walk. I still want recognition from others for my good works, to be thought well of by my friends, family and colleagues....for my own sake. I want people to say 'he's a really good guy'....I need to get to that place where I'm only concerned about pleasing The Lord.