Five Articles of the Remonstrance of Jacobus Arminius of 1610

[Butterflyyy]

Sorry im not buying it, may God indeed judge your heart at the Judgment Seat of Christ then, if indeed your being sincere and not lying right now, then it will be just fine

I will be at the Bema Seat not the Judgement seat; I know whose I am.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I am fed up of being treated badly by other Christians just because I don't agree with their Calvinism. I am weary of explaining myself to them and they need to be reminded that I am God's Child and they are being rude to me.

The simple and sane solution is to simply ignore those who persist in error or false accusations. I notice that this thread is deteriorating into another one of those personal attack threads rather than staying on topic.

 

[Butterflyyy]

Butterflyyy

There is nothing disgusting whatsoever in my remark about being a universalist.
It is friendly, if someone thinks you are an universalist it could be something you said.
I have not attacked you at all, but I would say this, you have constantly mocked in this
thread, mocked Calvinists and Calvinism, that is your right. You don't come across as
a saved person, you display temper and tantrums, I forgive you of course and I apologise
for offending you.

I honestly don't think you know how to discuss theological issues, you have said nothing
Christlike since being in here, you don't show maturity, and certainly don't progress
a Christ like forgiving attitude.

In short, it may be better for you to move along, you certainly don't know how to discuss
in a friendly way.

I wish I could say something nice about you, but I cannot.

More inaccurate judging; and slander.

FYI I don't have 'temper and tantrums.'

I, personally, find you immature, and rude.
You forgive me for what exactly? Lol the arrogance. And you apologise for offending me whilst offending and insulting me in the process.
Ugh. Not Christ-like at all....
You have attempted to get me off this thread for a while now, I wonder if it's because you want your ears tickling and don't want me to support those who don't agree with you? Worth considering don't you think, seeing as the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked?
I am weary of having theological debates about Calvinism; and the Bible tells us to not strive to debate.

To suggest that someone is a Universalist because they state the scriptural truth that Christ died for all, is ridiculous and insulting, and certainly not a mature way of having a theological discussion.

 

[Nehemiah6]

To suggest that someone is a Universalist because they state the scriptural truth that Christ died for all, is ridiculous and insulting, and certainly not a mature way of having a theological discussion.

Calvinists have been so blinded by their doctrines that they are unable to see that just because Christ died for the sins of the whole world does not automatically mean that all are (or will be) saved (Universalism). They simply cannot understand that obedience to the Gospel is necessary in order to be saved. And if all would obey the Gospel, then all would be saved.

 

[Butterflyyy]

Sorry im not buying it, may God indeed judge your heart at the Judgment Seat of Christ then, if indeed your being sincere and not lying right now, then it will be just fine

You are suggesting I am a liar.... that I am insincere....
God knows my heart and I can assure, it will be just fine.
It seems to me that you are a troll.

 

[Discern]

none of the things you list are problematical

however, when you examine the TULIP equation, unless you actually are a Calvinist, you are not going to agree

I am neither Arminium or Calvinist

I simply believe in Christ and what the Bible teaches...not the interpretations that twist what it states

one thing in particular most non-Calvinists will raise an uproar about is the less than delightful Calvin taught regarding pre-election to mean God creates people to go to hell...SPECIFICALLY to go to hell

one Calvinist in another thread called those unfortunates 'human trash'

there is a reason these types of threads get the responses that they do...name calling and twisting what others actually say and telling them they don't read the Bible or they are not saved or what have you. none of that has anything to do with anything, other than trying to create a personal dialogue that has nothing to do with the actual op

it seems ad hominim attacks are part of the Calvinist playbook

complaints seem to have at least stopped the name calling and mocking on the part of the Calvinists so they have toned it down

I used to think the same way, until I started studying what Calvinists say. I do not agree with all of TULIP, but there are things in there that are true. Have you taken the time to understand their position. I have.

Some Calvinists are rude and argumentative, but not all. People from any persuasion can be rude.

Go

 

[Discern]

You are suggesting I am a liar.... that I am insincere....
God knows my heart and I can assure, it will be just fine.
It seems to me that you are a troll.

People are quick to judge without understanding the others position. This is true on all sides.

 

[Discern]

Calvinists and non Calvinists are brethren. We should disagree with love, humility, and reverence

 

[EleventhHour]

Calvinists and non Calvinists are brethren. We should disagree with love, humility, and reverence

Amen, I have read posts by @Grandpa and he has excellent insight and is always patient and kind ... and there are others as well.
I have learned much from his posts.

 

[EleventhHour]

Calvinists and non Calvinists are brethren. We should disagree with love, humility, and reverence

They are brethren not by their identification/label but by what they believe.

 

[Butterflyyy]

I used to think the same way, until I started studying what Calvinists say. I do not agree with all of TULIP, but there are things in there that are true. Have you taken the time to understand their position. I have.

Some Calvinists are rude and argumentative, but not all. People from any persuasion can be rude.

Go

🤦🏼‍♀️

 

[Butterflyyy]

Calvinists and non Calvinists are brethren. We should disagree with love, humility, and reverence

The problem is though, that when I have started out with this attitude towards them, my experience has mostly been that they do not try to understand another point of view, but rather they use other verses which they perceive to back themselves up. They don't want to address the verses properly that are brought to their attention. I have found it very difficult over many years with those who hold to this doctrine. What you say is true ideally, but in reality there are those who frustrate this approach and then it becomes exasperating.

 

[Discern]

The problem is though, that when I have started out with this attitude towards them, my experience has mostly been that they do not try to understand another point of view, but rather they use other verses which they perceive to back themselves up. They don't want to address the verses properly that are brought to their attention. I have found it very difficult over many years with those who hold to this doctrine. What you say is true ideally, but in reality there are those who frustrate this approach and then it becomes exasperating.

Once it gets to a certain point, I just agree to disagree. 🙂

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I used to think the same way, until I started studying what Calvinists say. I do not agree with all of TULIP, but there are things in there that are true. Have you taken the time to understand their position. I have.

Some Calvinists are rude and argumentative, but not all. People from any persuasion can be rude.

Go

I've studied Calvinism quite a bit now

I agree with the rude summation, but I was specifically posting about the rude Calvinists we have had on this site

you were not party to them cause you had not yet joined but you can prob find them ...last 2 months worth...if you do a search

I have taken the time. too much of it probably

 

[7seasrekeyed]

They are brethren not by their identification/label but by what they believe.

yeah?

they do not believe as a person who does not identify with them

TULIP is not biblical

but you can believe as you wish...and you sound quite similar to member who recently had their account closed

just sayin'

of course you are also free to come back...no problem if you are

done it myself

 

[Discern]

I've studied Calvinism quite a bit now

I agree with the rude summation, but I was specifically posting about the rude Calvinists we have had on this site

you were not party to them cause you had not yet joined but you can prob find them ...last 2 months worth...if you do a search

I have taken the time. too much of it probably

The word "go" was a fragment of a sentence that I did not complete. Sorry.

Here are some things that I believe that some confuse with being Calvinistic, but are scriptural and held by both Calvinist and non Calvinist. I'd be interested to know which you and others agree with.

a. Faith is a gift of God.

b. There is a Divine work of grace upon a sinner that occurs before they choose to believe.

c. Repentance and faith is brought about by a work of the Holy Spirit by and with with the preaching of the Gospel.

d. God alone, by Himself, brings about the New Birth.

d. The believer is kept by the power and grace of God.

e. it is God who works in us both to will and to do of His Good Pleasure.

f. If we are partakers of Christ, we will hold fast to the end.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

The word "go" was a fragment of a sentence that I did not complete. Sorry.

Here are some things that I believe that some confuse with being Calvinistic, but are scriptural and held by both Calvinist and non Calvinist.

a. Faith is a gift of God.

b. There is a Divine work of grace upon a sinner that occurs before they choose to believe.

c. Repentance and faith is brought about by a work of the Holy Spirit in conjunction with the preaching of the Gospel.

d. God alone, by Himself, brings about the New Birth.

d. The believer is kept by the power and grace of God.

e. it is God who works in us both to will and to do of His Good Pleasure.

f. If we are partakers of Christ, we will hold fast to the end.

you know I'm sorry, but I have been over the Calvinist thing for the last 2 months and I am well acquainted with biblical doctrine

really no longer wish to have the discussion

please do not take it personally

thanks

one thing...do you believe a person is regenerated BEFORE salvation?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

there is no such thing as regenerated before being saved

crickets

 

[EleventhHour]

there is no such thing as regenerated before being saved

crickets

On this I would agree.

 

[Discern]

you know I'm sorry, but I have been over the Calvinist thing for the last 2 months and I am well acquainted with biblical doctrine

really no longer wish to have the discussion

please do not take it personally

thanks

one thing...do you believe a person is regenerated BEFORE salvation?

No. But I believe that there is a work of God that precedes faith. It is God who begins the work and God who finishes it.