Five Articles of the Remonstrance of Jacobus Arminius of 1610

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
D

Discern

Banned
#281
Dec 6, 2019
1,206
691
113
#281
Discern said:
No. But I believe that there is a work of God that precedes faith. It is God who begins the work and God who finishes it.
Click to expand...
I do not call that work regeneration. Calvinists do. But there is agreement that there is a work of God that comes before faith
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#282
#282
Discern said:
No. But I believe that there is a work of God that precedes faith. It is God who begins the work and God who finishes it.
Click to expand...
That work is not for a select though?
The author and finisher of our faith is Jesus... that speaks to.......the objective reality.
 
D

Discern

Banned
#283
Dec 6, 2019
1,206
691
113
#283
EleventhHour said:
That work is not for a select though?
The author and finisher of our faith is Jesus... that speaks to.......the objective reality.
Click to expand...
I also believe that the grace I spoke of can be resisted. But it always comes first
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#284
#284
Discern said:
I also believe that the grace I spoke of can be resisted.
Click to expand...
And if I understand this correctly the Holy Spirit pursues all ... and this is the work that precedes faith... not regeneration?

And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
concerning sin,
John 3:36
 
D

Discern

Banned
#288
Dec 6, 2019
1,206
691
113
#288
EleventhHour said:
And if I understand this correctly the Holy Spirit pursues all ... and this is the work that precedes faith... not regeneration?

And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
concerning sin,
John 3:36
Click to expand...
👍🙂
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#289
#289
Discern said:
God shows powerful Grace by opening up our eyes and convincing our hearts of Truth. Not a theoretical truth, but the Truth who is the Son of God
Click to expand...
Well I cannot put Grace in the mix, because God's grace is a response to agreeing with God on Truth.... but I cannot state I have studied this extensively... more personal experience of my own salvation which I know is subjective.
 
D

Discern

Banned
#290
Dec 6, 2019
1,206
691
113
#290
EleventhHour said:
Well I cannot put Grace in the mix, because God's grace is a response to agreeing with God on Truth.... but I cannot state I have studied this extensively... more personal experience of my own salvation which I know is subjective.
Click to expand...
My personal experience is that I had a stony, hard heart, that was crushed and broken by the Truth, and then healed, I would say grace is the cause of my conversion, not the description of it.

Are you saying that grace is Gods response to your faith? I would say that Grace is the inviting and calling of God that leads to repentance and then the continuing and completing of the work that He began in us
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#291
#291
Discern said:
My personal experience is that I had a stony, hard heart, that was crushed and broken by the Truth, and then healed, I would say grace is the cause of my conversion, not the description of it
Click to expand...
Interesting..... well grace and truth do go hand in hand, so best perhaps not to try and split hairs... ....I am trying to keep my hair healthy LOL
 
D

Discern

Banned
#292
Dec 6, 2019
1,206
691
113
#292
ieuan said:
1. Are the five doctrinal statement of the Remonstrants valid or not?

2. Do you agree with them?

See the Statements below:

Five Articles of Remonstrance

The Five articles of Remonstrance refer to the document drawn up in 1610 by the followers
of Jacobus Arminius (1560-1609). A "remonstrance" is literally "an expression of opposition
or protest," which in this case was a protest against the Calvinist doctrine of predestination
contained in the Belgic Confession. Consequently, those followers of Arminius who drafted
this protest were given the name "Remonstrants." This document was condemned as heresy
by the reformed churches at the Synod of Dort, 1618-1619. [1]

Article 1
That God, by an eternal and unchangeable purpose in Jesus Christ his Son, before the foundation
of the world, hath determined, out of the fallen, sinful race of men, to save in Christ, for Christ’s sake,
and through Christ, those who, through the grace of the Holy Ghost, shall believe on this his son Jesus,
and shall persevere in this faith and obedience of faith, through this grace, even to the end; and, on
the other hand, to leave the incorrigible and unbelieving in sin and under wrath, and to condemn
them as alienate from Christ, according to the word of the Gospel in John 3:36: “He that believeth
on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath
of God abideth on him,” and according to other passages of Scripture also. [2]

Article 2
That agreeably thereunto, Jesus Christ the Saviour of the world, died for all men and for every man,
so that he has obtained for them all, by his death on the cross, redemption and the forgiveness of sins;
yet that no one actually enjoys this forgiveness of sins except the believer, according to the word of the
Gospel of John 3:16, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever
believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” And in the First Epistle of 1 John 2:2: “And
he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” [3]

Article 3
That man has not saving grace of himself, nor of the energy of his free will, inasmuch as he, in the
state of apostasy and sin, can of and by himself neither think, will, nor do any thing that is truly good
(such as saving faith eminently is); but that it is needful that he be born again of God in Christ, through
his Holy Spirit, and renewed in understanding, inclination, or will, and all his powers, in order that he
may rightly understand, think, will, and effect what is truly good, according to the Word of Christ,
John 15:5, “Without me ye can do nothing.” [4]

Article 4
That this grace of God is the beginning, continuance, and accomplishment of all good, even to this
extent, that the regenerate man himself, without prevenient or assisting, awakening, following and
cooperative grace, can neither think, will, nor do good, nor withstand any temptations to evil; so that
all good deeds or movements, that can be conceived, must be ascribed to the grace of God in Christ.
but respects the mode of the operation of this grace, it is not irresistible; inasmuch as it is written
concerning many, that they have resisted the Holy Ghost. Acts 7, and elsewhere in many places. [5]

Article 5
That those who are incorporated into Christ by true faith, and have thereby become partakers of
his life-giving Spirit, have thereby full power to strive against Satan, sin, the world, and their own
flesh, and to win the victory; it being well understood that it is ever through the assisting grace
of the Holy Ghost; and that Jesus Christ assists them through his Spirit in all temptations, extends
to them his hand, and if only they are ready for the conflict, and desire his help, and are not inactive,
keeps them from falling, so that they, by no craft or power of Satan, can be misled nor plucked out
of Christ’s hands, according to the Word of Christ, John 10:28: “Neither shall any man pluck them
out of my hand.” But whether they are capable, through negligence, of forsaking again the first
beginning of their life in Christ, of again returning to this present evil world, of turning away
from the holy doctrine which was delivered them, of losing a good conscience, of becoming
devoid of grace, that must be more particularly determined out of the Holy Scripture, before
we ourselves can teach it with the full persuasion of our mind. [6]
Click to expand...
What I just wrote agreed with article four. So I accept article 4. Not because I accept article four out of adherance to Arminianism, but because I believe it is what scripture teaches
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#293
#293
Discern said:
No. But I believe that there is a work of God that precedes faith. It is God who begins the work and God who finishes it.
Click to expand...

well that's a good thing

of course the Holy Spirit will draw people to Christ, but choose

we are not forced by 'irresistible grace and regeneration before salvation' as per Calvinists
 
Whispered

Whispered

Well-known member
#294
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,230
113
www.christiancourier.com
#294
DB7 said:
Sorry Whispered, I didn't read triune, trinity, god-man, three-in-one, God the Son, 2-in-1 natures, incarnation, one-essence, or anything 'God made flesh' in all of the passages that you quoted? Did you digress?
Click to expand...
No, I did not.
If you did not see where Jesus is God in those many verses from both Old and New Testaments, it is as God intends.

You see, the mystery of Christ is in his chronology, not his ontology. He was the first-born of all creation, but God chose to reveal him at the appointed time so that man may appreciate his own sin, and consequently, Christ's perfection. God wanted a son, and for his son, he gave him a family that he may be the head, but he played this out in history in reverse order. i.e. In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God... This is clearly a literary convention called antanaclasis, but is speaking of a very profound revelation, ...God saved the best for last.

By calling Jesus God, you have denied the principle of the Son, and destroyed the pure love that was manifested between them. God does not love himself, nor redeem himself from himself, obviously!
Click to expand...
When Jesus tells us He and the Father are one, and the angel that came to Mary to tell her God had appointed her highly favored among women and chosen to bear Emmanuel, God with us, into the world, that tells us Jesus was God. Especially in the name Mary was to give Him. Emmanuel=God with us. It doesn't become more clear than that.
To deny Jesus was God is to deny the entire premise of His being able to be the propitiation for the sins of the world.
 
I

ieuan

Guest
#295
#295
There are the people of God
Loved of God
Loved by God
precious in His sight

There are a people outside of the Covenant
they live in a world of sin, pleasure seeking,
They have a token of love in them through grace, but not saving grace

The marks of Christ are : peace, joy, love, faith, trust,

The marks of the beast are: anger, accusations, malice, trollism, hatred, dissention, dissimilation and so on

Even when angry a Christian seeks the good of the lost
his words are in peace
willing to forgive.

To speak about the things of God is precious
The Christian seeks peace.
Amen
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#296
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#296
Flint321 said:
Heres also a video, that explains John 3:16

I hope it would open eyes and hearts of Brothers and Sisters in Christ who are Arminian, to embrace unconditional election (calvinism aka biblical doctrine)

Indeed Arminianism is only a half-faith and a perversion of God's grace, since it denies God's Sovereign free choice of grace.
Click to expand...
Sorry, the unconditional election White is describing is to eternal life via faith and repentance in the Gospel of Christ, contrary to your false "gospel" of only temperal deliverance in time on earth. You're conflating your erroneous teaching with the one true Gospel which is unto eternal life.

Just setting the story straight. Nice try, but I won't allow you to get by with being deceptive.
 
Flint321

Flint321

Banned
#297
Apr 12, 2019
243
105
43
#297
preacher4truth said:
Sorry, the unconditional election White is describing is to eternal life via faith and repentance in the Gospel of Christ, contrary to your false "gospel" of only temperal deliverance in time on earth. You're conflating your erroneous teaching with the one true Gospel which is unto eternal life.

Just setting the story straight. Nice try, but I won't allow you to get by with being deceptive.
Click to expand...
Well, i think you may have misunderstanding with me good sir :)

Just to clarify what i believe, so that people don't get confused, i believe the bible teaches that salvation comes to all who repent and believe, and they are the elect of God. (there is no contradiction)

You have a problem with this?

So i don't really understand your comment? i linked the video to say, that John 3:16 doesn't destroy unconditional election (which Arminians declare do)

This claim your making about my comment, i can't see how it's there, please enlighten me of my false gospel....
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#298
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#298
Flint321 said:
Well, i think you may have misunderstanding with me good sir :)

Just to clarify what i believe, so that people don't get confused, i believe the bible teaches that salvation comes to all who repent and believe, and they are the elect of God. (there is no contradiction)

You have a problem with this?

So i don't really understand you comment? i linked the video to say, that John 3:16 doesn't destroy unconditional election (which Arminians declare do)

This claim your making about my comment, i can't see how it's there, please enlighten me of my false gospel....
Click to expand...
My bad, I thought you were forest green cook. :)

Probably why I couldn't believe "he" agreed with White.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.