Not By Works

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Judges1318

Banned
#116,041
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
#116,041
mailmandan said:
The specific words, "lose or lost salvation" would settle the issue for you, but those words are nowhere to be found. In regards to the specific words, "can't lose salvation," (Psalm 37:28, John 10:27-28; Ephesians 1:13-14) just to name a few, settles the issue for me.
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Just as you challenged me to produce the specific words 'lose salvation' in the Bible, I challenged you to produce the words 'you can't lose salvation' in the Bible. And you couldn't.

I'm just showing you the hypocrisy of your argument.
What we are discussing are the concepts of these two arguments in scripture, not whether or not the specific words 'lose salvation', or 'can't lose salvation' are in scripture. Because they aren't.
 
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Judges1318

Banned
#116,042
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
#116,042
mailmandan said:
I gave you a thorough explanation in post #115,712 to explain why I believe that only the 4th soil represented those who are saved. I also gave you a though explanation in post #115,919 to explain why a loss of salvation was inconclusive, but you have your biased agenda to uphold.
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It's great if you were the rare exception that started out in the 4th type of soil when you got saved. And I mean that. But I assure you that the rest of us who didn't are still very much saved, too......as long as we retain the seed planted and growing in us.

The point is to have soil that does not cast out the word of God but retains it and brings it to fruition more and more as it grows in that soil.

The fourth type of soil does not represent 'saved vs. not saved'. It represents the soil from which the word of God is firmly planted (rooted) and can't be easily uprooted. It's the only soil in which anyone can even begin to make a boast of never ever being able to lose salvation because of a rejection of the word of God. And it don't take a college degree to see that most of us in the church don't have that kind of soil upon which to make that boast.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#116,043
#116,043
Discern said:
Please see post 116,031 by Mailman Dan. He gave a good explanation of the position not only held by Calvin and Calvinists, but even some non Calvinists. I think this is one thing that I agree with Calvin on. (though I do not agree with several other things.)
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Future perseverance is not an indication of salvation.... Calvin was wrong.....and Hebrews
does not teach this.

Very sad to overlay this on salvation which is a free gift .....which has no strings attached.
 
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Discern

Banned
#116,044
Dec 6, 2019
1,206
691
113
#116,044
EleventhHour said:
Future perseverance is not an indication of salvation.... Calvin was wrong.....and Hebrews
does not teach this.

Very sad to overlay this on salvation which is a free gift .....which has no strings attached.
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Preservation is not a string. It is what Jesus does and accomplishes. If it was a string, it would be something we accomplish, which it is not. It is the work of Christ, who not only begins but also finishes our faith
 
Butterflyyy

Butterflyyy

Well-known member
#116,047
Oct 31, 2019
1,613
1,318
113
#116,047
VCO said:
Now if you know that LOVE that HE is talking about is the ultimate form of LOVE the AGAPE form or Self Sacrificial form. I thought you were Catholic, and if you are, I am highly impressed, because Catholic most are works righteous oriented, and NOT Agape LOVE oriented. So you must really study your Bible to come up with that.

Here is something that may interest you.

Romans 5:5 (NASB)
5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts [human spirit] through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

That is the same kind of AGAPE LOVE that He put in us, so that is part of the FREE GIFT, therefore we can LOVE GOD and the Brethren with the same kind of LOVE HE poured into our hearts [human spirit].
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😱why did you think I was Catholic???
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#116,050
#116,050
Discern said:
Preservation is not a string. It is what Jesus does and accomplishes. If it was a string, it would be something we accomplish, which it is not. It is the work of Christ, who not only begins but also finishes our faith
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Jesus accomplishes it all at our new birth.

We manifest outwardly what has already been accomplished inwardly.
 
Butterflyyy

Butterflyyy

Well-known member
#116,051
Oct 31, 2019
1,613
1,318
113
#116,051
Discern said:
Note and disclaimer...A Christian may have a lapse for a season, even a long season, but temporary backsliding is not the same as apostasy. Apostasy is when a "professing" Christian stops being a "professing" Christian. Backsliding is when a Christian has a temporary lapse.

Don't want to backslide though. The only result it brings is wasted time, wasted opportunities, and grief to us, others, and most importantly, God.
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As I understand it, apostasy is when a Christian leaves the true way, but still thinks they are on it.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#116,052
#116,052
Discern said:
Preservation is not a string. It is what Jesus does and accomplishes. If it was a string, it would be something we accomplish, which it is not. It is the work of Christ, who not only begins but also finishes our faith
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Theses are two entirely different concepts ...... perseverance and preservation would you agree?
 
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Discern

Banned
#116,054
Dec 6, 2019
1,206
691
113
#116,054
EleventhHour said:
Jesus accomplishes it all at our new birth.

We manifest outwardly what has already been accomplished inwardly.
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What does Jesus accomplish in His present priestly ministry?

What does it mean He is able to keep you from falling

What does it mean we are made partakers ( last tense) if we hold fast our confidence till the end
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#116,055
#116,055
Judges1318 said:
Just as you challenged me to produce the specific words 'lose salvation' in the Bible, I challenged you to produce the words 'you can't lose salvation' in the Bible. And you couldn't.

I'm just showing you the hypocrisy of your argument.
What we are discussing are the concepts of these two arguments in scripture, not whether or not the specific words 'lose salvation', or 'can't lose salvation' are in scripture. Because they aren't.
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The onus of proof is on you because we know that scripture makes it clear that righteousness is imputed, the born again believer is justified, redeemed, sealed, given a gift, adopted, new creation and so one.

Losable salvation is a detestable concept..... stating the God would take away something we could never earn, merit or keep by our own volition.... He created a perfect salvation so that Satan would never again have victory over those who have believed.

And yet you are argue with full force that God is incompetent to accomplish is will for those who believe.

Utterly tragic to defy God's word and plant seeds of doubt among the believers on this forum.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#116,057
#116,057
Discern said:
What does Jesus accomplish in His present priestly ministry?

What does it mean He is able to keep you from falling

What does it mean we are made partakers ( last tense) if we hold fast our confidence till the end
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What I stated learning to live out what He has won for us.
 
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