3 Tactics Calvinists Use Against Non-Calvinists

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John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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All scriptures must harmonize. Do you not consider some of the scriptures?
Harmonize? What do you mean? Not all Scripture is written to us, but all Scripture is written for us. The word of truth has divisions that we must recognize. Scripture to the Jews will not necessarily harmonize with Scripture written to the Church. For example, Jeremiah 29:11 is not to the Church.
 
Apr 12, 2019
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There’s not one passage with the word elect that has to do with salvation. None, zero. Elect
oh really? what about this verse:
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.


Here is a verse that contradicts what you just said, as you say:
"There’s not one passage with the word elect that has to do with salvation. None, zero. Elect" - John146

To deny election, is to deny the word of God and its to distort God into your own mold (idolatry).
 
Apr 12, 2019
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As many as were appointed which means they were appointed.. which is the same as saying destined.
also notice its talking about in conjunction with eternal life, the ones who were appointed to ETERNAL LIFE, which is Salvation, they believed.

Another verse, exposing the follies of Arminism:
1 Peter 2:8 “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

As THEY WERE DESTINED TO.
 

inukubo

Active member
Jun 27, 2019
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Such a wrong view of Scripture. Why did I believe? Because I was convinced that salvation is all about Jesus and nothing about me. I was headed down the path of destruction and Jesus was my only way out. That my friend gives all the glory to God.

God must have chosen you because there was something special about you. Oh the pride of Calvinism.
And you chose yourself. Nothing prideful in that...
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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The point that I was trying to make is the fact that the natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2;14 will not harmonize with Eph 1:13 for the fact that the natural man will not hear (discern) the word of truth until he has been born again and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. In my understanding, you are giving the natural man the ability to hear and discern the things of the Spirit before he is born again and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in order to discern spiritual things. Before he is born again he thinks that spiritual things are foolishness.
This only shows your system cannot harmonize scripture. To be born again is to be born of the Spirit. That which born again is our spirit and by what means hearing the word, the gospel and believing it. We don't have to to change the very word, we need to see it as it is. Believe it or not!
 

fredoheaven

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Nov 17, 2015
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oh really? what about this verse:
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.


Here is a verse that contradicts what you just said, as you say:
"There’s not one passage with the word elect that has to do with salvation. None, zero. Elect" - John146

To deny election, is to deny the word of God and its to distort God into your own mold (idolatry).
And just when they (Gentiles) were ordained to eternal life? it was when they believed. In fact those Jews who are filled with envy have put away the gospel or rejected the word.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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John 6:26-29 King James Version (KJV)
26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.


What Christ is giving us? Accordingly it is everlasting life.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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Ephesians 1:16-19 King James Version (KJV)
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

What is being given to us in prayers? wisdom, knowledge and understanding.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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2 Peter 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.


What is given unto the Apostles? It is the precious promises to be partakers of the divine nature, pertaining unto life...what they gained is analogous to the precious faith, a faith that saves...
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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oh really? what about this verse:
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.


Here is a verse that contradicts what you just said, as you say:
"There’s not one passage with the word elect that has to do with salvation. None, zero. Elect" - John146

To deny election, is to deny the word of God and its to distort God into your own mold (idolatry).
The Jews rejected the message, but God had ordained that the Gentiles would also hear the message. The Jew first, then the Gentile. That’s the pattern God put in place.

God doesn't ordain any Gentile to eternal life until he has followed his conscience and is willing to hear the Word of God (vs. 42,48) "ordained" something God allows to come to pass.

46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

We should note that the word "ordain” never fixes anything absolutely. (Lk. 7:8; Rom. 13:1; Acts 28:23, Matt. 28:16; 1 Cor. 9:14; 7:17) Paul ordained some things and that no more meant they were absolutely fixed to come to pass than if he hadn't used the word. (Rom. 13:1) The meaning is obviously that as many as were disposed to believe the message, believed.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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The Jews rejected the message, but God had ordained that the Gentiles would also hear the message. The Jew first, then the Gentile. That’s the pattern God put in place.

God doesn't ordain any Gentile to eternal life until he has followed his conscience and is willing to hear the Word of God (vs. 42,48) "ordained" something God allows to come to pass.

46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

We should note that the word "ordain” never fixes anything absolutely. (Lk. 7:8; Rom. 13:1; Acts 28:23, Matt. 28:16; 1 Cor. 9:14; 7:17) Paul ordained some things and that no more meant they were absolutely fixed to come to pass than if he hadn't used the word. (Rom. 13:1) The meaning is obviously that as many as were disposed to believe the message, believed.
The Jews were chosen by God to bring forth God’s elect Jesus Christ, and so the Father loves them. But at the same time the Jews are enemies of God and the gospel until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. Then the Lord shall return and bring salvation to Israel.

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
 

TooFastTurtle

Active member
Apr 10, 2019
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As many as were appointed which means they were appointed.. which is the same as saying destined.
also notice its talking about in conjunction with eternal life, the ones who were appointed to ETERNAL LIFE, which is Salvation, they believed.

Another verse, exposing the follies of Arminism:
1 Peter 2:8 “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

As THEY WERE DESTINED TO.
If I disobey the word right now and commit a sin I can just say to myself "Eh... I guess I was destined to do this anyway. "

But wait, a REAL convert wouldn't think that right? Sure he wouldn't. Yet this is exactly the kind of danger Calvinism brings with it.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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There’s not one passage with the word elect that has to do with salvation. None, zero. Elect
Eph 1, According as he has chosen (to select) us to be adopted as his children by Jesus. If we they are adopted as his children they are saved eternally. 1 Pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification (purification, holiness) of the Spirit. If they are purified and made holy they are saved eternally.
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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Eph 1, According as he has chosen (to select) us to be adopted as his children by Jesus. If we they are adopted as his children they are saved eternally. 1 Pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification (purification, holiness) of the Spirit. If they are purified and made holy they are saved eternally.
Let’s get the correct wording. The word elect is not there. The choosing is to those in Christ to receive the spiritual blessings in the heavenly places. The word predestinated shows up speaking of those already in Christ. If you are in Christ, you have been predestinated unto the adoption. Romans 8:23 explains the adoption as the future redemption of our bodies.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Harmonize? What do you mean? Not all Scripture is written to us, but all Scripture is written for us. The word of truth has divisions that we must recognize. Scripture to the Jews will not necessarily harmonize with Scripture written to the Church. For example, Jeremiah 29:11 is not to the Church.
Jeremiah 29 - Jeremiah's message is directed to the elders, priests and prophets of Israel. God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob but to be called Israel, Gen 33:28, Jacob is representative of God's elect.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Let’s get the correct wording. The word elect is not there. The choosing is to those in Christ to receive the spiritual blessings in the heavenly places. The word predestinated shows up speaking of those already in Christ. If you are in Christ, you have been predestinated unto the adoption. Romans 8:23 explains the adoption as the future redemption of our bodies.
If you would give me the scripture explaining that the choosing in Eph 1 is to those in Christ, it would help. We become "in Christ and Christ in us" in the new birth, Eph 2:5.
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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Jeremiah 29 - Jeremiah's message is directed to the elders, priests and prophets of Israel. God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob but to be called Israel, Gen 33:28, Jacob is representative of God's elect.
Israel is God’s elect nation, yet they are enemies of the gospel.

Name it and claim it if you want.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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Let’s get the correct wording. The word elect is not there. The choosing is to those in Christ to receive the spiritual blessings in the heavenly places. The word predestinated shows up speaking of those already in Christ. If you are in Christ, you have been predestinated unto the adoption. Romans 8:23 explains the adoption as the future redemption of our bodies.
Strong's concordance says that the Greek for chosen = to select. Are you saying that select does not mean elect?
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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If you would give me the scripture explaining that the choosing in Eph 1 is to those in Christ, it would help. We become "in Christ and Christ in us" in the new birth, Eph 2:5.
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: (Paul is talking to saved believers.)
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us (the already saved believers) with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: (not salvation, but spiritual blessings, unseen at the present time)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him (not to be in Him) before the foundation of the world, (these spiritual blessings are in accord to what was chosen to give those in Christ)that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: (one day, this spiritual blessing will occur)
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children (Romans 8:23 defines the adoption as the future redemption of our bodies) by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. (One has to get in Christ to be accepted. Paul goes on to explain in later verses how this is accomplished. Hear the gospel, believe, and sealed for this future day of redemption. It’s the guarantee of those spiritual blessings.)